peacefulpete

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Posts by peacefulpete

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  76

  Rekindled Light — The Narrative Structure of the Hexaemeron (Genesis 1:1–31)

  by Mebaqqer2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i used to comment here many years ago when i had an interest in biblical research in relation to jehovah’s witnesses.

  these days my biblical research is little concerned with jehovah’s witnesses.

  i feel my time is better spent researching the diachronistic development of the biblical text and ascertaining what the biblical writers and editors intended in the times in which they lived.. i have recently placed a summary diagram for a paper that i have written with original research entitled the narrative structure of the hexaemeron on academia.edu.

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  peacefulpete

  I forgot to mention, I am of the opinion that the widely accepted chiastic structure is probably correct. The comment:

  One of the first difficulties to which scholars drew attention in the course of the exegesis of Gen 1 was that the number of the works of creation did not agree with the number of days. Eight works are distributed over six days, with two on each of the third and sixth days.

  This results from overly ridged expectations of literature of poetic nature. The author was brilliant in his use of 7 and the had the constraints of listing 8 types of living things. There may be some cultic rational behind the splitting of wild and domestic but simply said he had 8 things to complete his list and so pairs a couple up in a logical fashion that kept his thematic chiasm intact.

  There is such a thing as overworking a dough. Sometimes a detail is just window dressing for the larger image. In this case the inclusion of 8 things on six days, doesn't detract at all from the Sabbath week outline or the chiastic symmetry unless one gets overly stickled.

  Regarding your drawing from Jubilees for 22 acts of creation, we have to remember that this author was himself freely reinterpreting the stories. He shows no special insight into what the original author intended. He adds details and leaves out details in Genesis, he creates a fresh harmonization of the stories in Genesis rather than simply repeating some centuries old original structure. In fact, the chiastic structure is lost due to the author's concerns. I question whether this offers us any help in decoding the structure of Genesis 1.
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  76

  Rekindled Light — The Narrative Structure of the Hexaemeron (Genesis 1:1–31)

  by Mebaqqer2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i used to comment here many years ago when i had an interest in biblical research in relation to jehovah’s witnesses.

  these days my biblical research is little concerned with jehovah’s witnesses.

  i feel my time is better spent researching the diachronistic development of the biblical text and ascertaining what the biblical writers and editors intended in the times in which they lived.. i have recently placed a summary diagram for a paper that i have written with original research entitled the narrative structure of the hexaemeron on academia.edu.

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  peacefulpete

  OK, read it. First let me say, it is well written and argued. I had to use a dictionary couple times, lol.

  From my post above you know I see the ubiquitous chaos motif to be inescapable, and therefore I favored the use of "ordering/shaping" in vs 1. What was 'made' was a habitable world from a moving chaotic primeval (tehom, rahab, leviathan) purposeless, formless, state. This concept reappears many times in the OT, (even Revelation), as I'm sure you know.

  I think I understand your thesis, and respect that you are integrating ancient reinterpretations (Jubilees). The ubiquitous (great word) conceptualization of cult temples as cosmic mirrors and in some sense allude to the god's manifestation has been demonstrated by a number of authors, and was no doubt intended. Just how this assists us in interpretating Genesis 1, is not clear to me. Can you explain further?
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  76

  Rekindled Light — The Narrative Structure of the Hexaemeron (Genesis 1:1–31)

  by Mebaqqer2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i used to comment here many years ago when i had an interest in biblical research in relation to jehovah’s witnesses.

  these days my biblical research is little concerned with jehovah’s witnesses.

  i feel my time is better spent researching the diachronistic development of the biblical text and ascertaining what the biblical writers and editors intended in the times in which they lived.. i have recently placed a summary diagram for a paper that i have written with original research entitled the narrative structure of the hexaemeron on academia.edu.

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  peacefulpete

  Early thoughts about Holmstedt's article.

  The opening word choice "ordered" rather than created, is quite consistent with the chaos leitmotif the author is clearly utilizing.

  In response to the odd flow of the narrative, Midrash B’reishit Rabbah 3:8 postulated the cyclical past of numerous creative events followed by destruction. In such a setting "in a beginning" becomes plausible but feels like reverse engineering a solution. Scribal error, combined with reinterpretation seems more likely if the 'beginning' is to be read indefinite.

  I favor the second possible translation offered by Holmstedt "In the beginning 'in which' God ordered the heavens and the earth. Therefore, though vs 1 as stand-alone introduction, makes a great deal of intuitive sense in light of modern cosmology, I suspect the author wasn't using the terms 'earth' as a planet but in anthropic focus of usable, productive land, heavens representing the region above as a part of the whole, again with an anthropic focus. If so, vs 1-3 flow just fine. If the process of 'ordering ' the earth and heavens is the intent, this removes the awkwardness of God 'creating" then subsequently creating again.

  I know in vs 7 etc. the 'firmament', "of the shamayim" was formed to divide the tehom (primeval chaotic waters) is named shamayim, (which has inspired more questions) but I imagine the author as embracing a looser definition than we impose. Heavens probably meant anything 'above' but from the anthropic standpoint the firmament was the defining boundary whereon the lights of the sky are made to appear. (The term is used variously throughout the OT.) If so, then vs 1-3 read continuously.

  
  
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  76

  Rekindled Light — The Narrative Structure of the Hexaemeron (Genesis 1:1–31)

  by Mebaqqer2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i used to comment here many years ago when i had an interest in biblical research in relation to jehovah’s witnesses.

  these days my biblical research is little concerned with jehovah’s witnesses.

  i feel my time is better spent researching the diachronistic development of the biblical text and ascertaining what the biblical writers and editors intended in the times in which they lived.. i have recently placed a summary diagram for a paper that i have written with original research entitled the narrative structure of the hexaemeron on academia.edu.

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  peacefulpete

  I have a hobby of dispassionate textual criticism, but certainly do not have your level of commitment. I'll try to study this tomorrow. Welcome back.
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  45

  consequences for going against the direction.

  by jehovaxx in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there are no serious consequences for doubting the gb.

  there are no consequences for going against the direction.

  we can now celebrate anything.. what will happen if you take blood, celebrate xmas and birthdays ect?.

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  peacefulpete

  jehovaxx.....It would be a positive development for the people in the church if what you describe is actually how things are done. I fear it might be a local rogue CO mouthing off. It doesn't impact me either way, but I empathize for those still in the grip of the church.
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  45

  consequences for going against the direction.

  by jehovaxx in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there are no serious consequences for doubting the gb.

  there are no consequences for going against the direction.

  we can now celebrate anything.. what will happen if you take blood, celebrate xmas and birthdays ect?.

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  peacefulpete

  Jehovaxx..... I recommend testing your theory before suggesting it to others. It is my view that nothing of significance has changed. Choices should be clear eyed and well informed. Then there are no regrets.
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  11

  Chat AI shows Jesus was not god

  by enigma1863 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  title: jesus' perception of himself: a nuanced view of equality in a patriarchal society.

  introduction:.

  the perception of jesus christ's divinity has been a subject of theological debate for centuries.

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  peacefulpete

  Pete, it does make an interesting point about viewing Jesus words through the lens of cultural norms of the time.

  If we are to dig a little deeper we find the "cultural norms" include the sectarian usage of "Son of God" to include the purely mystical representation of Deity in action. For example:

  Philo of Alexandria | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (utm.edu)

  As has been repeated many times recently on this forum, the language of begetting, subordination and sonship are not preclusive to identifying Son of God as God. The words have a unique religious meaning that was current in Jewish thought.

  I also remind you that the words placed in Jesus' mouth are those of the writers for theological purposes. It is easily demonstrated by comparing recensions/versions of the Gospel that these words reflect the views the writer wished to convey and are not actual quotations.
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  29

  Beards vs. Shunning announcements

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during lett’s announcement that beards are now allowed he elaborated at some length how brothers ought to feel and react to the change in policy.

  he warned brothers not to resent not being able to grow beards earlier if they had wished to do so.

  he also warned brothers who supported the old policy not to allow themselves to wonder what the point of doing so was now that it has changed.

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  peacefulpete

  Members of my family who left/exiled got a call from a JW sibling yesterday. No socializing just an invite to "special talk" being given by her husband. All it accomplished is demonstrate that the controls are still in place. Of course I didn't get one, they regard me as dangerous. I'm ok with that.
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  11

  Chat AI shows Jesus was not god

  by enigma1863 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  title: jesus' perception of himself: a nuanced view of equality in a patriarchal society.

  introduction:.

  the perception of jesus christ's divinity has been a subject of theological debate for centuries.

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  peacefulpete

  Anyone who has asked AI to answer a controversial question learns quickly that it just regurgitates the information from popular websites. There is no evaluation of accuracy or objectivity. Garbage. Nothing to do with left or right. It's just repeating crap, often contradictory answers in same response.
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  30

  Will New Rules Bring JWs Together or Pull Them Apart?

  by doinmypart in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there's been a lot of discussion about the changes in the org.

  you might think all this would shake things up, especially for the older or super dedicated jws.

  but remember when gb decided all the khs and the bank accounts needed to be transferred/managed from the top?

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  peacefulpete

  Not so much "sticking together" as believing they have no choice. It's also human nature to preserve status quo, cling to the familiar. It takes a pretty strong push emotionally to convince people to change.