I see I made a rather glaring blunder. The Genesis Eden/tree story was J not P. Later intertestamental Zadokite (priestly) obsession with this story led to many expansions and mystical connections.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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73
Did God know adam and eve would sin?
by gavindlt into all those on this forum, i would love to know what your take on this vital question is..
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A Modest proposal to solve the 1914 problem
by r51785 inthroughout watchtower history dates have been a problem.
the usual solution for failed prophetic dates has been to kick the can down the road.
this needs to be done with 1914. the generation that will never pass away is now 110 years old and therefore is past its useful life span.
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peacefulpete
A simple solution might just be brewing. The protraction of the 'great tribulation' to new lengths could possibly be explained as a step toward 'new light' that we have been in the GT. Why not? In fact, that is closer to the meaning of the Gospels. The 'tribulation' was a descriptor of the events as a whole.
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Another Messiah in the News
by peacefulpete ina news item making rounds today regards the famous chabad-lubavitch synagogue in brooklyn.
in short, the leader of the movement/sect was world famous rabbi menachem mendel schneerson.
schneerson passed away in 1994.....or did he?
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peacefulpete
A news item making rounds today regards the famous Chabad-Lubavitch synagogue in Brooklyn. In short, the leader of the movement/sect was world famous Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson. Schneerson passed away in 1994.....or did he? Prior to his absence a number of the members of the community regarded him as the Messiah and believe he is alive and yet leading the movement. Schneerson himself was ambiguous about the matter.
In this developing story it appears that this group of believers are responsible for a pretty impressive, illegally constructed, tunnel system linking the synagogue with other buildings as a means of expanding the building's capacity, or preparation for something.
How many times must this pattern be repeated?
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The Meaning of ETC
by titch infolks: i don't mean to be a "forum grammar policeman", but there is something that i've noticed a few times.
i've noticed that a few---not all---but some, members of the forum who use the abbreviation "ect" when they want to use the abbreviation of "etc.
" for your education today, the term "etc" is the abbreviation for the latin term "et cetera.
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73
Did God know adam and eve would sin?
by gavindlt into all those on this forum, i would love to know what your take on this vital question is..
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peacefulpete
If Ford made a car without confidence it was safe, and that resulted in deaths, they would rightly be liable and guilty of negligent homicide.
A god making a world without confidence it was safe makes that god equally responsible. Imaging a god that could have foreseen the suffering but chose not to is guilty of reckless willful homicide.
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73
Did God know adam and eve would sin?
by gavindlt into all those on this forum, i would love to know what your take on this vital question is..
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peacefulpete
Adam and Eve did not sin they 'became like' their creators, i.e. no longer naive. Letting the author explain his very short story leads to a very different conclusion than the countless spins theologians have overlain upon it. Unfortunately, we primarily know of this particular legend only through the voice of one such theologian (P).
Appreciating the literary stages the Genesis composition passed through prevents anyone from being dogmatic about the original purpose the small more ancient elements individually had, prior to being woven together. However in this case the original intent seems to be retained by the "become like one of us, knowing good and bad". IOW, the end of childlike naivety.
The P compiler/redactor, that borrowed this snippet, seems to have in mind the Eden ideal of 'holy place' with it's implied connections to the temple rights that he and his fellows were engaged in. The place seems to be of greater import than the message. Some of this is lost on modern readers as a result of the merging with other traditions in the later centuries BCE.
So what we have is a snippet of metaphor drawn from local cult of the goddess brilliantly commandeered to emphasize the naivety of man in contrast to the creators, preserved in a larger narrative (P) that utilizes it to contrast sacred from profane then later merged with other traditions into a collection, more concerned with preservation of legends, loosely woven into a 'history of man' (R/sages).
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Did Jesus have a pre-existence or was he fully human, begotten at his human birth.
by gavindlt inso when was jesus begotten.
was he truly and wholly fully human.
did he exist in two states, part human part god.
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peacefulpete
The Christ figure was a pliable icon that dozens of very different sects held as central to their identity and soteriology. They imagined and described him differently. A few of these conceptions became unnaturally collected together through the Catholic process of canonization. Even among this emerging orthodoxy, this artificial collection resulted in endless controversy.
For example:
- Sabellianism = One and the same substance
- Homoousian = Distinct but identical substance
- Homoiousian = Similar in substance
- Neo-Arianism or heteroousians = Unlike in substance
- Homoianism refuses to refer to substance.
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Lines you would never hear from a Jehovah's Witness
by Ron.W. ina slightly tongue in cheek, but also serious roundup of jw speak and why trying to reason with them is like trying to chip through concrete with a plastic spoon.. how many can you think of??.
elder: 'yes.
i read through the material you asked me to at your judicial meeting - you're right we're both in a cult!
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peacefulpete
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In the spirit of Christmas
by no-zombie inon this auspicious day, i'd like to propose a question (half in fun and the other half not) to ask, ... if the governing body reviewed the origins of christmas and now proclaimed that it was now a matter of conscience, how many of the brotherhood would pick it up and start practicing it?.
for me, i think that very, very few would take issue of the change and disassociate themselves.
yes, many would question it in their minds for a while but since it would be a governing body sanctioned holiday, i think a very surprising large number would do so with zeal ... particularly in europe, were it still has wholesome family traditions.
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peacefulpete
I know some like my sister (now passed) would love nothing more than to have an occasion for a get-together and cook a special meal. Others seem to have a cultivated negativity about lots of things. Just look at how many former JWs think of it as a bother and speak disparagingly about the holidays and the privilege to vote.
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JW sign is the sacred cow being idolized by the JWs
by enoughisenough inthis video makes valid points and the last pictures in the video says it all imo...i knew witnesses who wore the logo in their jewelry.
the sign represents the organization, so the organization is what is really being worshipped instead of god almighty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktadlxlqee8.
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peacefulpete
Did a similar culture exist around the old Watchtower symbol? Did JWs have that symbol on ties, jewelry, bible covers, etc?
Per Terry:
The Cross and Crown pins were first advertised in the Sept. 1, 1906 Watch Tower
The Dec. 15, 1909 and subsequent ZWTs through the years give the following description of the "Cross and Crown Pins":
"Gold, beautiful, good and cheap. The cross is red enamel, the wreath in green--$1.35. The same without the green on wreath, $1.25. In silver enameled wreath and cross, 25 cents; size 3/4 inch. Plain gold without enamel, 1/2 inch, $1.15. These are wholesale rates and include postage." (Adjusted for inflation: $25)
November 1, 1927 issue of the Watch Tower. On page 335 there is a price list for the cross-and-crown jewelry sold by the Society.
The 5/8 inch cross-and-crown pin was $1.50. The 1/2 inch version was a real bargain at only $1.25. Cross-and-crown pendants, with and without chains, were also listed for sale.
Such was the practice until 1931.