Posts by peacefulpete

The names of the gods of Palestine and surrounding regions are known to most of us only through the condemnations of the OT writers. Baal Peor, Hadad, Chemosh, Molech/Milkom Dagon, etc. It is therefore surprising that the main deity of the sister nation to the south, Edom is never mentioned. His name was Qos or Qaus. Many accept the name means "bow" as in the weapon. (or rainbow) As usual this is a large topic and this is a brief summary.

WIKI: Qos (Edomite: 𐤒𐤅‬‬𐤎 Qāws, later Qôs;[1] Hebrew: קוֹס‎ Qōs)[2] also Qaus (Akkadian: 𒋡𒍑 Qa-uš), or Koze (Greek: Kωζαι Kōzai) was the national god of the Edomites.[3] He was the Idumean structural parallel to Yahweh. The name occurs only twice in the Old Testament in the Book of Ezra and Nehemiah as an element in a personal name, Barqos ("son of Qos" (or Qos beams forth) referring to the 'father' of a family or clan of perhaps Edomite/Idumaean nəṯīnīm or temple helpers returning from the Babylonian exile.[6][7]

I had a thread earlier regarding the Nethinim as foreign Temple servants that left us with lots of questions. Here I'm taking special focus on the Edomite name of a Nethinim with a Qos theophoric element. So clearly the writers of the OT knew the name Qos. This then makes the lack of condemnation of the God difficult to explain.

Notice in the Wiki quote, it says he was the Idumean (later term for region called Edom) "structural parallel to Yahweh." It further comments:

Unlike the chief god of the Ammonites (Milcom) and the Moabites (Chemosh), the Tanakh refrains from explicitly naming the Edomite Qōs.[6][16] The omission may be explained, according to some scholars, by assuming there were close similarities between Yahweh with Qōs, that would have made rejection of the latter difficult.[8]

You know all this is related back to the Kennite hypothesis that assumes OT passages that describe YHWH (Yah) as having come from Edom/Seir reflect an accurate mnemonic history and is confirmed by a number of extrabiblical inscriptions. In addition, we have the origin story of Jacob/Israel stealing the blessing from Esau/Edom which in light of the hypothesis, seems to be a suggestion that Edom should have been the chosen blessed nation.

To cut to the chase, there are a few theories regarding YaH's (Yah is likely the earlier form) relationship with Qos. One well argued position is that when Yah's worship relocated to Judah, Qos was adopted to replace him to affirm national identity apart from Judah. However it seems to me another scholarly proposal is less complicated and fits the evidence better. Namely that they are the same deity, Qos being an epithet for Yah.

A promising proposed solution to the difficult passage at Prov 30:29 might lend some credence to this:

There are three that are stately of stride, four that carry themselves well:30:30 The lion is mightiest among the beasts, and recoils before none; 30:31 The greyhound, the he-goat, the king whom (none dares resist).

The last phrase is very difficult, and some other translations are “and the king when he harangues his people” (NJB) and “and a king whose troops are with him” (NKJV).king secure against revolt (NIV) and the king, against whom there is no rising up.(ERV)and the king at the head of his people (NAB) etc.

Given the graphic similarity between the final mem and samekh, Theodor Vriezen suggested long ago reading ומלך אל קוס עמו “and the king with whom the god Qos is.”[17] The original meaning—perhaps the proverb itself originated in an Edomite context—was lost either because of Judean objections to referencing this deity positively or out of a later scribes’ ignorance of the meaning of Qos.

Additionally there are a number of other names in the OT that have theophoric elements related to this discussion, such as:

Kushaiah (קושיהו)— father of Ethan, a Merarite Levite who accompanies the ark of God on its return to Jerusalem (1 Chr 15:17).[11] The name may include both the theophoric element Qos[12] as well as YHWH, perhaps reflecting a syncretistic “Qaus is YHWH.”[13]

The mention of a number of Edomites serving both at the Temple and in the military might suggest a religious conversion but it might also suggest simply that as Edomites they simply worshipped the same god by a different name.

Anyway, I'm hoping this might inspire some interest. Take a few hours and read some of the links and citations. Sorry about the messy formatting. I'm watching TV at the same time. LOL

Amzallag, N. (2009). Yahweh, the Canaanite God of Metallurgy? Journal for the Study of the Old Testament, 33(4), 387–404. https://doi.org/10.1177/0309089209105686

Qos (deity) - Wikipedia

‘Yahweh in Israel—Qaus in Edom?’, JSOT 4 (1977), pp. 28-34.

Edom’s God Qos is the Hebrew God Yhwh | Arabian Prophets

Why the Bible Is Mute about Qos, the Edomite God - TheTorah.com

God Under Another Name?| National Catholic Register (ncregister.com)

6

PROJECT JEHOVAH: Letter September 17, 2022

by Rijk in

good morning,.

i translate for you with google translate (and copy from e-watchman forum).

my englisch is very, very bad .

peacefulpete

Sorry for your loss. I hope you heal.

26

Details of Noah’s Ark

by enigma1863 in

jw magazines have claimed the flood story has so much detail that it couldn’t be just a made up story.. is it detailed?

name one person outside of noah’s family.

name one nephilim.

peacefulpete

Deut 2:10 `The Emim formerly have dwelt in it, a people great, and numerous, and tall, as the Anakim;

11 Rephaim they are reckoned, they also, as the Anakim; and the Moabites call them Emim.

20 `A land of Rephaim it is reckoned, even it; Rephaim dwelt in it formerly, and the Ammonites call them Zamzummim;

The legendary giants went by a number of names. Nephilim, Rephaim, Anakites, Emin and others.

I'll also repeat what I said on another thread, Nimrod was one of the Nephilim, "mighty ones" a child of the gods.

The Flood story (and tower story) interrupts the narrative. The table of 70 nations is itself also an earlier addition.

Of course famously Goliath of Gath is said to be Rephaim and a giant. He is killed in one legend by David in another by Elhanan. Also, Og and Dodo and another giant described only as having 24 toes and fingers.

26

Details of Noah’s Ark

by enigma1863 in

jw magazines have claimed the flood story has so much detail that it couldn’t be just a made up story.. is it detailed?

name one person outside of noah’s family.

name one nephilim.

peacefulpete

Numbers 13:33: "We saw the Nephilim there, as the Anakites come from the Nephilim. We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them".

Deuteronomy 1:28 "The people are stronger and taller than we are; the cities are huge, with walls up to the sky. We even saw the Anakites there."

16

Article & Documentary on the Divine name

by Blotty in

video documentary and academic article on the divine name:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljpgxsyiqtc&ab_channel=johnwyatthttps://www.academia.edu/14029315/the_name_of_god_y_eh_ow_ah_which_is_pronounced_as_it_is_written_i_eh_ou_ah_simplified_edition?email_work_card=title this does not prove gods name was present in the nt, however some points do lead us to that conclusion simply by process of elimination.

peacefulpete

It's very hard to understand because you and I were raised from youth to feature the Tetragramaton as a key element of utmost importance. The fact that most all Christians don't see it that way seems to JWs like a deficiency on their part. For them it seems JWs are obsessed with a nonissue. For them, they have grown to address God as "Our Father" as the Christian Bible says Jesus taught them to pray. It's only when the topic is framed as a conspiracy does it take on importance, hence the WT's obsession with the topic since the 30's.

For those who study the topic in detail, it becomes clear that YHWH is an artifact, one of the names associated with the God of the Jews for a period of time in history. The name itself, both its true etiology and meaning, were lost to the Jews long ago. Although the hypothesis that it was understood as meaning "passionate, or blow" is quite attractive: A Nearly Forgotten Hypothesis about YHWH

Perhaps Yah/Yahu was the older form as found in the oldest poetry and songs in the OT and Assyrian texts and not an abbreviation as is commonly (but strangely) assumed. If correct, then etymology and etiology discussions should start here.

Perhaps it was a toponym, a name of a place associated with a deity, Beth-yahweh for example, or like it appears in the Egyptian texts as "land of the Shashu of yahu" in Edom. (I favor this one)

Or perhaps that was once part of a liturgical formula such as Du yahwi sabaot (He who creates the heavenly armies) per F.M.Cross, later shortened to Yahweh Sabaot (found hundreds of times in OT) then just Yahweh with the original context lost and free to be reinterpreted.

37

Jw shot and killed in field service!

by nowwhat? in

another example of jehovah protects his people except when he doesn't.

https://www.wifr.com/2023/02/12/rockford-police-54-year-old-man-shot-killed-vehicle/.

peacefulpete

I agree the WT has not made any guarantee of safety, they just relish stories of divine protection. A favorite in our circuit was from an older elder who claimed he was shoved off the porch by angels just before a pot of boiling water was thrown at him.

Scores of passages in the Bible similarly speak of protection and refuge for worshippers while at the same time glorifying the death and suffering of the same. Word salad.