The writers of Daniel, Baruch, Enoch, Revelation etc. and the Gospels naturally had a narrow focus on recent events. Their world was unraveling, and they desired and anticipated divine intervention. Typological interpretation was the rage. Parallels were perceived and pronounced. A review of the works from the late 2nd temple period reveals the strenuous effort to understand their world by looking at the past. Even a past that never really was.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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Jerusalem will be trampled by the nations until the Gentile Times are Fulfilled. — Luke 21:24
by Fisherman injerusalem will be trampled by the nations until the gentile times are fulfilled.
— luke 21:24 .
the bible book of luke records jesus prophecy of the last day with his parousia including the verse about the gentile times.
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63
Jerusalem will be trampled by the nations until the Gentile Times are Fulfilled. — Luke 21:24
by Fisherman injerusalem will be trampled by the nations until the gentile times are fulfilled.
— luke 21:24 .
the bible book of luke records jesus prophecy of the last day with his parousia including the verse about the gentile times.
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peacefulpete
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Gedaliah was assassinated and many fled fearing reprisals.
The Persians then after conquering the region appoint Nehemiah as a vassal governor with a wave of immigrants to Jerusalem.
The Greeks under Alexander then conquered the region
The Ptolemaic empire then followed in governing Jerusalem.
The Seleucids then took control under Antiochus the Great. Eventually under Antiochus IV again destroy the city, it's walls and loots the temple. Sets up the alter to Zeus in the temple.
Then the Maccabean brothers conquered the city and region forming the Hasmonean kingdom. This is the celebration of Hanukah as for about 100 years Jerusalem is ruled by Jews.
Herod the Great, a Jewish convert, then conquers the city made vassal King under the Romans. he rebuilds the walls and Temple to a scale never seen before.
After a series of rebellions Jerusalem is again sacked and partially destroyed by the Romans, temple looted gain.
The Herodian dynasty continues for about 30 years with a return to normalcy.
Hadrian decides to rebuild the city and limits the Jewish cult practices. The Bar Kokhba (135) revolt happens with Hadrian killing about a half million Jews. Banishes Jews from the city.
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Jerusalem will be trampled by the nations until the Gentile Times are Fulfilled. — Luke 21:24
by Fisherman injerusalem will be trampled by the nations until the gentile times are fulfilled.
— luke 21:24 .
the bible book of luke records jesus prophecy of the last day with his parousia including the verse about the gentile times.
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peacefulpete
The only explanation of Gentile times must refer to the period of time from Gentile rule over Jerusalem until the parousia
According to the OT, Egypt sacked and conquered Jerusalem around 925 BCE, made a vassal state,
About 850 it was conquered by the Assyrians and still a vassal state.
Shortly later it was sacked by the Philistines and Arabs and looted. and killed most of the Kings family.
Hazael king of the Arameans conquered Jerusalem about 20 years later and looted again and killed all the prices.
About 50 years later Israel King Jehoash sacks Jerusalem over throws the king and destroyed its walls again.
About a hundred years later the land was conquered by the Assyrians and Jerusalem was still a vassal state paying tribute.
Then around a hundred years later the Babylonians took the city and hauled off the king.
The vassal king Zedekiah rebelled about 10 years later and the city was again conquered and walls torn down and a new vassal Gedaliah put into place. The next 5 years were prosperous with a new optimism attracting many Jews back who had fled earlier. (Jer 40:9-14).
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Daniel Made Simple!
by Leolaia inthe large horn on the goat is the first king of greece (8:21), obviously alexander the great.
after his death, alexander?s kingdom was divided among four of his generals (8:22).
the high priest), and further causes the daily sacrifices to cease, and the sanctuary to be defiled (8:11).
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peacefulpete
Resurrection of a fine thread.
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Jerusalem will be trampled by the nations until the Gentile Times are Fulfilled. — Luke 21:24
by Fisherman injerusalem will be trampled by the nations until the gentile times are fulfilled.
— luke 21:24 .
the bible book of luke records jesus prophecy of the last day with his parousia including the verse about the gentile times.
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peacefulpete
Would you be so kind as pointing me to a historical or reference work where Antiochus is responsible for destruction of the city and the sanctuary. If so, then I’ll also apply it to Antiochus.
Vidqun....Daniel is a blow by blow description of events of the Antiochus "the madman". Yes they destroyed the city, even took down the walls. The city and walls were rebuilt.
1 Macc opens with: 20 After subduing Egypt, Antiochus turned back in the one hundred forty-third year and went up against Israel and came to Jerusalem with a strong force. 21 He arrogantly entered the sanctuary and took the golden altar, the lampstand for the light, and all its utensils. 22 He took also the table for the bread of the Presence, the cups for drink offerings, the bowls, the golden censers, the curtain, the crowns, and the gold decoration on the front of the temple; he stripped it all off. 23 He took the silver and the gold and the costly vessels; he took also the hidden treasures that he found. 24 Taking them all, he went into his own land.
He shed much blood
and spoke with great arrogance.
25 Israel mourned deeply in every community;
26 rulers and elders groaned;
young women and young men became faint;
the beauty of the women faded.
27 Every bridegroom took up the lament;
she who sat in the bridal chamber was mourning.28 Even the land trembled for its inhabitants,
and all the house of Jacob was clothed with shame.The Occupation of Jerusalem
29 Two years later the king sent to the cities of Judah a chief collector of tribute, and he came to Jerusalem with a large force. 30 Deceitfully he spoke peaceable words to them, and they believed him, but he suddenly fell upon the city, dealt it a severe blow, and destroyed many people of Israel. 31 He plundered the city, burned it with fire, and tore down its houses and its surrounding walls. 32 They took captive the women and children and seized the livestock.
2 Macc 5: Antiochus, he thought the whole country of Judea was in revolt, and he became as furious as a wild animal. So he left Egypt and took Jerusalem by storm, 12 giving his men orders to cut down without mercy everyone they met and to slaughter anyone they found hiding in the houses. 13 They murdered everyone—men and women, boys and girls; even babies were butchered. 14 Three days later Jerusalem had lost 80,000 people: 40,000 killed in the attack and at least that many taken away to be sold as slaves.
15 But Antiochus was still not satisfied. He even dared to enter the holiest Temple in all the world, guided by Menelaus, who had become a traitor both to his religion and to his people. 16 With his filthy and unholy hands, Antiochus swept away the sacred objects of worship and the gifts which other kings had given to increase the glory and honor of the Temple. 1
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Jerusalem will be trampled by the nations until the Gentile Times are Fulfilled. — Luke 21:24
by Fisherman injerusalem will be trampled by the nations until the gentile times are fulfilled.
— luke 21:24 .
the bible book of luke records jesus prophecy of the last day with his parousia including the verse about the gentile times.
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peacefulpete
For what it's worth...The author of Luke's revisions/omissions are suggestive of his understanding of Mark and Matt.
First, the author of Luke clearly did not interpret Mark or Matt's expression of "tribulation" as referring to events thousands of years in the future. He revised his sources to say : There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. His understanding would not seem strange if it were not for the Adventist spin we are familiar with. Clearly, he understood the "tribulation" of Mark and "great tribulation" of Matt as referring to the Roman suppression of Jewish rebellion in Jerusalem.
Notably, he dropped entirely the lines that follow (Matt 24:21b,22) that said the days would be 'shortened' on account of 'the elect' (Christian Jews) as this clearly did no longer fit his time of writing, a generation later.
Another alteration he made was removing the "immediately after the tribulation of those days..." in Matt (24:29). Instead, he dropped the line entirely.
He also adds a new intertextual typology from Tobit not found in his sources Mark or Matt. He introduces a delay, an 'appointed time' needing to be fulfilled before the restoration. In Tobit the writer uses those words for the period between the return to Jerusalem and the rebuilding of the Temple, which was decades long. Rather than see it as a weakness of faith he saw it as providential. The writer of Luke, it seems, saw a parallel in his day. Living decades after 70 he saw the Jerusalem largely resume as a city but the Temple still in ruins as well, but more importantly no Son of Man.
Luke also adds (21:27,28) the line that 'when you see the Son of Man coming, know your deliverance is near'. This is not in Mark or Matt. He seems at pains to temporally distance the Jerusalem events from the deliverance here again. He has introduced a delay "appointed time" and erased words that suggested the two were very near in time. Here he temporally links the Son of Man's coming with imminent deliverance.
Especially interesting is his seeming omission of Matts 24:10-12, 14. This is likely because his copy of Matt did not yet have those lines. They also speak to a later generation of Christians whose disappointment had made them grow cold. It also ends with the anachronistic prediction of the Gospel being preached in the whole world. These lines are almost certainly a later gloss, as they would have been useful for Luke if he had seen it, given his agenda of explaining the delay.
I guess that's enough for now.
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Jerusalem will be trampled by the nations until the Gentile Times are Fulfilled. — Luke 21:24
by Fisherman injerusalem will be trampled by the nations until the gentile times are fulfilled.
— luke 21:24 .
the bible book of luke records jesus prophecy of the last day with his parousia including the verse about the gentile times.
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peacefulpete
It's not a simple knot to untie. Many factors complicate it. The first century reinterpretation of Dan 9 as referring to Rome, like the contemporary work 4 Ezra. The author of Luke's own personal amendments of Matt and Mark including his reinterpretation of Tobit 14:5: “But God will have mercy on them again. God will bring them back to the land of Israel, and they will rebuild the house, though not like the first one, until the appointed time has been fulfilled. Afterward, they will all return from the places where they are captives and build Jerusalem in grandeur.
So.... what we have is a revision of reinterpretations of an apocryphal and a pseudographical work that failed being made to apply to a world 1900 years later.
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Is it mathematically posible for Noah and his sons to have populated the earth?
by Fisherman inbible says flood occurred approximately 4000 years ago.
that is about *200 generations of breeding to get to the population on earth now.
keep in mind that the population increase is geometric.
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Is it mathematically posible for Noah and his sons to have populated the earth?
by Fisherman inbible says flood occurred approximately 4000 years ago.
that is about *200 generations of breeding to get to the population on earth now.
keep in mind that the population increase is geometric.
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peacefulpete
The Bible gives us the story of Noah as historical event,
Does it? Ever considered the story was meant as allegory? Teachers, even the Jesus of the Gospels used parables. The Rabbis have filled volumes with folk tales and colorful midrash. That there are two separate versions of the Noah story in Genesis would support that there were local adaptations of a popular story better than dismissing the evidence and insisting these stories are historical.
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How many terms does the bible bother to explain
by Blotty inthe bible is well known for its ellipsis* and its lack of explanatory statements of a term used.
there are exceptions in grammatical patterns, such as john exclusively using archon for ruler in his writings - which make the term self evident.sin - is defined"one" (unity) - is somewhat defined and also self evident from the context (no exceptions, every person part of that unity is listed in the context)an interesting thing to see would be how many terms are actually used and explained.
*the omission from speech or writing of a word or words that are superfluous or able to be understood from contextual clues..
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peacefulpete
I have to apologize, whenever I post I sound like I'm doing a thesis. I hate typing so much, I rewrite a sentence multiple times and often the end product sound robotic or dogmatic. Not my intention.