It is ironic that the more evolved the concept of God gets the less relatable and approachable it gets. For example, emotions have to be feigned if you always know what's going to happen. Oh the good old days when gods had weaknesses and limitations.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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14
Would You Like To Be God?
by Ultimate Axiom inwe know there are a few on this forum who think they are, but consider this for a while.
if you are god, you are omniscient, therefore you have nothing to learn.
nothing to research, investigate or explore as there is nothing you don’t already know.
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121
Babylon the Great
by Godlyman indo jw's still believe that babylon the great is the empire of false religion?
inquiring minds want to know .
estephan.
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peacefulpete
Your objection is overly literal. Compare how Daniel 7 describes a fourth beast as devouring and crushing the whole earth. This represented Greece (Christians say Rome). Either way the description is from a perspective of someone unaware of the western hemisphere and far East.
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JW Harrasment
by enigma1863 inas most probably know scientology harasses stalks and even spreads lies about their former members to convince you not to trust them.
they are very good at smearing peoples names.. has their been any evidence the jw organization uses the same methods on specific individuals?
i don’t mean the general all apostates are bad stories posted for the rank and file.
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peacefulpete
No. Though I've been told they monitor sites like this sometimes. Maybe to identify leaks. And I believe there are active jws counting time trying to preach.
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121
Babylon the Great
by Godlyman indo jw's still believe that babylon the great is the empire of false religion?
inquiring minds want to know .
estephan.
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peacefulpete
the blood of all the prophets & her drunkenness with blood of the prophets or the holy ones past present and future would obviously not fit Rome
You've added a few word's not in the text.
And I saw the woman being drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus..............And in her blood of prophets and of saints was found and of all those having been slain on earth.
A pretty apt description of the most powerful, extensive and ruthless empires the ancient world ever knew, especially from the perspective of a Christian bitter over recent bouts of persecution under Domitian.
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Nephilim...Only desired females
by RULES & REGULATIONS inbible questions answered.
who were the nephilim?.
the bible account says that “the sons of the true god began to notice that the daughters of men were beautiful.” (genesis 6:2) those ‘sons of god’ were actually spirit creatures who rebelled against god when they “forsook their own proper dwelling place” in heaven, materialized human bodies, and “began taking as wives all whom they chose.”—jude 6; genesis 6:2.. the hybrids born from this unnatural union were no ordinary children.
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peacefulpete
So will the Nephilim get a resurrection?
Sure.... we can always use someone really tall to pick the apples from the top of the trees.
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Nephilim...Only desired females
by RULES & REGULATIONS inbible questions answered.
who were the nephilim?.
the bible account says that “the sons of the true god began to notice that the daughters of men were beautiful.” (genesis 6:2) those ‘sons of god’ were actually spirit creatures who rebelled against god when they “forsook their own proper dwelling place” in heaven, materialized human bodies, and “began taking as wives all whom they chose.”—jude 6; genesis 6:2.. the hybrids born from this unnatural union were no ordinary children.
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peacefulpete
Ray...reread the wiki excerpt you posted. It specifically says what I did.
As far as little people legends:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_people_(mythology)
I have no desire to argue the point. It's not hard to understand legends of large or small people or ugly or evil or wise or fast or invisible etc. Human imagination is pretty predictable. Take what you see and overlay what you wish or you fear.
When you need to make that what you fear seem powerful you endow it with size or magic. Kinda like how the Christian who wrote Gospel of Peter who wished to make his heroes (angels and Jesus) powerful described them as giants:
40) And the heads of the two reached as far as heaven, but that of the one being led by them reached beyond the heavens.
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Temple Talk
by peacefulpete inrecall the famous charge made against jesus in his trial in the gospel mark: .
“we heard him say, ‘i will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days i will build another, not made with hands.’”.
matt has a shorter version which likely reflects what he saw in his copy of mark:.
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peacefulpete
Vidqun.... I don't know but another thread had an issue also. It posted then disappeared for about a day then reappeared without the comments. It's all above my head.
Regarding your comment. I wasn't looking for religious interpretation of Rev or the Paulines. The post was about the historical expectation of the messiah rebuilding the temple and how to deconstruct the Gospels with that information.
I guess I can add that 2 Baruch a first century Jewish work has similar language, the temple was not the real temple, it was in Paradise in heaven. So the thoughts were circulating, I imagine even more widely outside Israel.
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Temple Talk
by peacefulpete inrecall the famous charge made against jesus in his trial in the gospel mark: .
“we heard him say, ‘i will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days i will build another, not made with hands.’”.
matt has a shorter version which likely reflects what he saw in his copy of mark:.
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peacefulpete
Googe chrome
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Temple Talk
by peacefulpete inrecall the famous charge made against jesus in his trial in the gospel mark: .
“we heard him say, ‘i will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days i will build another, not made with hands.’”.
matt has a shorter version which likely reflects what he saw in his copy of mark:.
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peacefulpete
First a technical question. I tried 3 times to post this thread and each time it appeared to get stuck in que. I was just repeating that this morning and discovered it had posted a few hours before. Is it a known issue? Is it my computer?
I agree G.Mark was written post70. In fact I'm persuaded the original form of G.Mark was written as a play for public performance and subsequently adapted as a narrative with a bunch of additions. However the thread was focusing on the language of the charge, to destroy the temple and rebuild it. It doesn't seem that that would have been necessarily controversial for someone claiming to be the Messiah. I find it too coincidental. Maybe the story reflects some historical kernel regarding a claimant to the title that was an embarrassment to the next generation, requiring the writer of Mark to assert it was a false claim and later G.John, to not deny, but reinterpret as symbolism. The 3 day motif plausibly appeared in an early revision of Mark that the writer of Matt had. The last part about, 'not made with hands' a still later addition post G.John. These were hand written copies and easily susceptible to harmonizations and interpolation.
Regarding Zechariah, yes at least 2 authors are now recognized by critical scholarship, but what is relevant is how this work was perceived by the first century Jews. They saw 'prophecy' or dual meanings in texts that on their face did not present as prophecy or suggest a dual application. The NT writers were hardly original in doing this. It's basically recycling. You have only so many holy texts so you make them fit new situations.
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Temple Talk
by peacefulpete inrecall the famous charge made against jesus in his trial in the gospel mark: .
“we heard him say, ‘i will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days i will build another, not made with hands.’”.
matt has a shorter version which likely reflects what he saw in his copy of mark:.
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peacefulpete
Recall the famous charge made against Jesus in his trial in the Gospel Mark:
“We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.’”
Matt has a shorter version which likely reflects what he saw in his copy of Mark:
“This fellow said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.’”
Whether the authors understood Jesus as having actually said that is uncertain as both say this charge is brought by false witnesses. G.John on the other hand takes places the line in Jesus' mouth and offers an explanation as a symbolic metaphor. Temple=Jesus's body. (theological problems aside).
Regardless, something I had never learned as a JW was the second temple period expectation that the Temple would be destroyed and subsequently rebuilt by the Messiah. The primary text lending to this is Zech 6:12
12Then say to him, ‘The LORD of armies says this: “Behold, there is a Man whose name is [f]Branch, for He will [g]branch out from where He is; and He will build the temple of the LORD. 13Yes, it is He who will build the temple of the LORD, and He who will bear the majesty and sit and rule on His throne..."
While a lot from that period has been lost sometimes we get lucky. The famous and renown first century Rabbi Yohana ben Zakkai is quoted as declaring after the doors of the Temple opened by themselves:
"O Temple, Temple, why dost thou frighten thyself? I know of thee that thou shalt be destroyed; Zechariah the son of Iddo [Zech. xi. 1] has already prophesied concerning thee: 'Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars'"
The same R.Yohanan is said to have spoken with general Vespasian, addressed him as Lord Emperor to which Vespasian objected given he was not the emperor to which R, Yohanan announced:
"If you are not the king you will be eventually, because the Temple will only be destroyed by a king's hand".
As we know soon later he did become the Emperor so millions of Jews see him as a prophet. But note the resignation with the Temple being destroyed.
There is more on this topic, but what do you think? If one of the most influential Pharisee of the time interpreted Zechariah as foretelling the destruction of the Temple so that it could be rebuilt by the Messiah, why the accusation in Mark? Was it evidence that he was declaring himself the Jewish Messiah? Why does Mark seem to be insisting the charge was a lie? Was the writer indicating Jesus was not the Messiah they were expecting?
As for the author of G.John he seems to be in his own way also distancing Jesus from the charge by reinterpreting it as a prophecy of Jesus's death and resurrection. Maybe feeling the need to after the many years the Temple was not fully rebuilt. (btw. they did start) (G.Mark was likely interpolated to harmonize with John's spiritual take.)
Discuss.