Posts by tornapart

96

Phizzy Said this......And I am afraid I disagree

by KateWild in

jw
friends

i still find it strange that believers cannot get it in to their heads that atheism is not a belief, but theism is.

there cannot possibly be proof "for" the atheistic position as it is simply a position that says i see no proof for a god.. if someone says there are pink unicorns with purple spots and i say i have never seen any proof of their existence, i cannot offer proof of my "position", the onus is 100% upon the spotted unicorn guy to prove their existence to me.

simple.. where the frustration enters in for us non-unicornists is when the unicornists expect us to listen to inane arguments , non facts and plain nonsesnse and then go along with their delusion.

tornapart

Simon.. I know crystal shapes are caused by their molecular structure. They are caused by natural processes and I'm not refuting that. It still doesn't alter the evidence in my eyes. I don't believe each individual tree was created, no. I do believe that someone created the 'foundation' blocks at a microscopic level and set the process off. As much as people talk about diseases and things going wrong in nature, I see far more going right. What about all the incredible symbiosis there is. I see disease as a process gone wrong. Bacteria and viruses can have beneficial effects in the right environment. Taken out of the right environment they can cause havoc.

I think the point is not whether one believes God exists or not, whether things evolved or not. It is whether one is 'deluded' or not. I agree that I am a person of faith but I do NOT agree for one minute that I am deluded. If anyone wants to believe I am then that's completely up to them.

96

Phizzy Said this......And I am afraid I disagree

by KateWild in

jw
friends

i still find it strange that believers cannot get it in to their heads that atheism is not a belief, but theism is.

there cannot possibly be proof "for" the atheistic position as it is simply a position that says i see no proof for a god.. if someone says there are pink unicorns with purple spots and i say i have never seen any proof of their existence, i cannot offer proof of my "position", the onus is 100% upon the spotted unicorn guy to prove their existence to me.

simple.. where the frustration enters in for us non-unicornists is when the unicornists expect us to listen to inane arguments , non facts and plain nonsesnse and then go along with their delusion.

tornapart

Delusion is not at all like faith.

Merriam Webster: delusion- a false idea or belief that is caused by mental illness

full definition: a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary;

Calling someone 'deluded' is not the same as calling someone a 'person of faith'.

96

Phizzy Said this......And I am afraid I disagree

by KateWild in

jw
friends

i still find it strange that believers cannot get it in to their heads that atheism is not a belief, but theism is.

there cannot possibly be proof "for" the atheistic position as it is simply a position that says i see no proof for a god.. if someone says there are pink unicorns with purple spots and i say i have never seen any proof of their existence, i cannot offer proof of my "position", the onus is 100% upon the spotted unicorn guy to prove their existence to me.

simple.. where the frustration enters in for us non-unicornists is when the unicornists expect us to listen to inane arguments , non facts and plain nonsesnse and then go along with their delusion.

tornapart

I don't agree with this bit:-

" Why are not believers simply honest and say "What I believe in is Delusion, but I choose to continue". I would respect that honesty, but a dis-honest approach to facts, I do not respect."

Why should I, as a believer, say I believe in a 'Delusion', when I don't believe I am deluded? I base my belief on what I see as evidence.

I see a complicated DNA code. Each genetic code is written within every living cell, is duplicated and mulitplied in exact copies, bilions of times. Every living organism is produced from that code. It tells me that an intelligent designer is behind it (regardless of whether the continuing process is by evolution or not). A computer binary programme did not come about without intelligent design so how can I believe that the genetic code did? The tiny cell of every single living thing is like a microscopic factory, continuing to produce replicas of itself. When an embryo is formed at a certain stage, all the different cells separate into the different parts of the body. With all these processes all I can see is an intelligent designer.

If I see a tree with 'Mark loves Stacy' written within a heart shape with an arrow through it, I know without a doubt that someone put it there. It has order and intelligence behind it.

I refuse to say I am deluded simply because what I see as evidence is not evidence to someone else.

50

How Jehovah's Witnesses benefit those humble enough to study the Bible with them.

by Stand for Pure Worship in

jw
friends

excellent material can be found within the reasoning book, page 328, para.2, 3. occasionally, i see posters make presumptuous comments like, "all you need is the bible", or, "i'm born-again, so there's no need for spiritual assistance from another christian", or,"i'm saved", or my favorite, "jesus talks to me directly.

" on one hand, i can't be overly critical of such ones because they do attempt to read and understand the bible on their own.

(acts 17:11) not to mention they're generally peaceable folks, just self-misguided when erroneously believing that they can go it alone.

tornapart

John 14: 16,17, 26 "and I will request the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither beholds it nor knows it. You know it because it remains with you and is in you.......But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds al the things I told you."

1 John 2:27 "And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but, as the anointing from him is teaching you about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in union with him."

Are you calling Jesus a liar?

26

Feb 2014 WT Study article

by molybdenum in

the caption under the picture in the first article.

hail christthe glorious king!says:.

birds will be called on to cleanse the earth (see paragraph 18).

tornapart

ROFL!! Oub!! I had a mouthful of coffee just then and my pc screen nearly got plastered!

26

Feb 2014 WT Study article

by molybdenum in

the caption under the picture in the first article.

hail christthe glorious king!says:.

birds will be called on to cleanse the earth (see paragraph 18).

tornapart

As bad as the over-flapping generation...

8

Preterism vs The Rapture??

by DATA-DOG in

in the preterist view, all scripture is fulfilled.

when jesus said to his disciples, " this generation ", he meant it.

they would not pass away until they saw the destruction of jerusalem.

tornapart

Interesting point DD... never thought of that one before!

35

Why I am upset with myself for my atheistic beliefs

by confusedandalone in

yesterday me and the wife were talking about how much better life has become.

she said something that got me thinking and made me a bit sad for a while.

we were discussing where we are at individually in our quest for understanding about the "super-natural" and i expressed i have no belief in it at all and how much i have changed she says, "i don't think you have changed much.

tornapart

Even as a full in Jdub, I could never understand how going to all the meetings, put lots of hours in the FS, answering up, preparing for meetings etc etc... somehow equated with being spiritual. It really is totally meaningless. Although I did all those things, it left me completely cold.

To me spirituality is sitting in a beautiful place outdoors and feeling at one with the surrounding nature (whether a believer in God or not), soaking up it's beauty, listening to birds sing and feeling your emotions soar. Having a great meal and being surrounded by all your family and just having fun and enjoying each other's company and feeling the love. Listening to an amazing piece of music and letting it capture your soul. Every human on this planet has a measure of spirituality. It just cannot be defined by religious rules!

62

What a beautiful setting for ignorance! - Play my 20 questions type game.

by nicolaou in

brits might find this easier but where do you think i snapped this yesterday?

i'll only answer with a yes or no.. .

huge kudos to the winner.

tornapart

Well done Cofty!!

62

What a beautiful setting for ignorance! - Play my 20 questions type game.

by nicolaou in

brits might find this easier but where do you think i snapped this yesterday?

i'll only answer with a yes or no.. .

huge kudos to the winner.

tornapart

Do you mean the one that Americans can't pronounce Cofty?