Posts by atrapado

111

WT Elders school: The WTS has progressed from just plain stupid to dangerously stupid

by sir82 in

jw
friends

fresh off the recent 1-day elders school.

to keep things readable i'll post "highlights" over the next several days in different topics.

point 1: they have progressed from "just plain" stupid to dangerously stupid.. .

atrapado

Ethos the more you comment the more your lack of knowlege is reveal. Using only the WT publications available to everyone can you come up with a list of all the things you'll get DF for? Please show the WT publications where you get that list from.

You can get the list from the elder's book, now was the list giving to you when you got baptized? Because I always thought that if it came from the Bible then it didn't matter if I agree with the FD or not, but was never told that if I don't agree with their Bible interpretation 100% I can be df. I am sure that if you gave such a list to all the people that are getting baptized a lot of them would not get baptized. Of course there will be individuals just like you that like to be there. I don't have a problem with a JW that knows all the flip-flops and all the information that is documented against JWs and wants to be a JW. But everyone should be given that opportunity to get all the facts from both sides. Then if they decide to stay JWs that is their choice.

Isn't nice to argue about something and avoid all the questions you cannot answer or will make you look stupid if you answer?

Here are 3 questions that Ethos will never answer while he still stuck there: How can you break the rules of the WT posting on apostate websites? How can you go against Bible's counsel not to even say hi to apostates? Can you still believe and agree 100% with the WT and do this things?

699

A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?

by palmtree67 in

jw
friends

ricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.

"there are good atheists and bad atheists.

there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".

atrapado

cofty - Everybody is entitled to their own opinions but there is no such thing as ones own truth.

I guess it depends how you define truth. And if the same frame of referense is used. Someone could create their own reality.

But agree with you that people do abuse it since they are not creating their own reality. Calling something truth just gives it more punch.

27

Update on Mrs Obvious and myself

by Captain Obvious in

well it's been about 8 months since my final wake up.

as some may remember for my intro thread, i panicked and was way too aggressive at first with telling my wife all about this scam we're a part of.

she freaked, thinking satan had me for sure.

atrapado

From my experience what help my wife was reassuring her no matter what happend or what we decided she would always have my support and love. I remember telling here I would be there for her and if she wanted me to be at the meetings I would be there too.

After she lost the fear that if we leave the borg all hell breaks loose, she told me that she would continue to go and didn't want to loose her friends. I supported her. However, she started missing meetings and on her own she stopped all together. It happen much faster than I thought. I would still ask are we going to the meeting today and she would say 'No'. I was planning to keep going after a while but since she stopped I saw no need to keep going.

One of the things that she didn't like was that when she missed meeting, a few in a row, she could feel the preassure from sisters, and she had been pioneering and there were many sisters putting pressure on her to pioneer again. Some where not even pioneers and would just tell her that they should start pioneering together again etc. etc. that was a huge turn off for my wife. Basically after she was free the memebers pushed her away.

73

A letter from a College Dropout

by Ethos in

jw
friends

dear harvard university,.

i have decided go leave this institution of education.

let me explain why.

atrapado

Satanus I have heard the claim that the JWs get the best education in the world.

I seen some articles(very few) like Kepler's Three Laws of Planetary Motion and another article on Micro-Biology.

The first time I read the article on biology I was like 13. I didn't understand much of it. After I took micro-Biology in High School and re-read the article I was able to understand all the details.

Kepler's Laws I had already study at college so I though it was wonderful that they would show that to brothers but I wonder how many would be able to follow it. So there might be some nice articles here and there but they don't care if their r&f doen't understand or cannot follow them. In fact is better if they cannot follow them, look at the last two articles of 607 most JWs will get lost in those articles.

73

A letter from a College Dropout

by Ethos in

jw
friends

dear harvard university,.

i have decided go leave this institution of education.

let me explain why.

atrapado

wha happened? I think that if a dub has ever heard of a University in the US that would be Harvard. I don't see Ethos being resourful enough to know all the colleges of this board.

73

A letter from a College Dropout

by Ethos in

jw
friends

dear harvard university,.

i have decided go leave this institution of education.

let me explain why.

atrapado

"Arguing with the professor about something wrong in his textbook will get you nowhere.”

Actually this is not true. At UC Berkely is common for students to contradict the professor. I remember two occasions. One where the professor desided to grade a project a certain way which many felt it was unjust. We brought it to his attention and he agreed with us and made modifications to his grading.

I remember taking another class pass/no pass. The professor didn't like my essays and I got a No Pass. Which I found odd. I help another student on the same class and proofread all of his essays but he got a Pass and I got a No Pass. I brought it up to my professor and she didn't want to change my grade, so I went to the administration they contact the professor and they re-graded my essays. I got a Pass and the person from administration told me the following "this is exaclty what we encourage students to do, fight for what they think is right. Sometimes professors make mistakes, sometimes they might grade a paper very late or in a bad mood which under different circumstances they would have graded differently. Congratulations on changing your grade."

Obviously Ethos only knows what the WT teaches him I doubt he has taken any classes at a University.

73

A letter from a College Dropout

by Ethos in

jw
friends

dear harvard university,.

i have decided go leave this institution of education.

let me explain why.

atrapado

Ethos are you a troll or do you actually believe what you are writing?

"Obviously Marvin has never been to university. Whatever's in the textbook is on the test. You will fail the class if you fail the tests. Arguing with the professor about something wrong in his textbook will get you nowhere. Violate the rules and you are kicked out. What a cult!"

If you find something wrong in the books and can proove it the professor will not required you to preach it to pass his class. Here is the advice you can get from professors "While you are an undegrad or grad student be respectful to your professors don't make a big issue out of things get your degree. Once you get your degree you can challenge anything you want and be published if you are correct."

Can you imagine every single student like "Ethos" talking crap to the professors? You know there are Grad students that look for any errors professors make and if is a big deal they can publish it make a name for themselfs even a Ph.D to go with that.

So if you publish anything you must be sure you can reproduce it because there will be many others going after what you wrote and challenge it.

Can anybody in the WT challege anything? Can COs or DOs challege anything how about elders? You can't really challenge anything in the scientific community without credentials, you can do it but won't be taken serious. Can anybody in the WT challege anything?

And if you think the WT teaches the same things it taugh 100 years ago you don't know their story very well. You mention using the name Jehovah. Even if we accept that is a correct translation(which is not and the WT has acknowlege that Yahweh might be a better translation), how come 100 years ago that name was hardly used by the WT. Look at the magazines from early 1900s if you found Jehovah once per WT thats a lot. Why did they worship Jesus while he appointed them in 1919 isn't that idolatry that Jehovah hates?

Now consider the most JWs teachings are not unique other religions teach and preach them. Plus many of them are 2000 year old debates which can go either way like the Trinity. And not the Trinity the WT teaches.

39

Can YOU solve the following Paradox??

by Terry in

before i address the paradox (a statement that contradicts itself) i want to insert a fact from history.. .

the romans used a malleable (and highly poisonous) metal (lead) for water pipes and conduits.

as snows melted into pure water, it was channeled into sluices and pipes made of lead that ran through the cities as drinking water.. .

atrapado

An almighty God can squash any Paradox. Is there such a God? The answer is left as an exersise to the reader.

26

Did you feel guilty for not pioneering?

by brokethechain in

i started pioneering the month i finished high school, and never stopped until i awakened, 17 years later.

it seems like the entire time, there was so much emphasis on pioneering.

every field service meeting seemed to have a part that communicated the message that jehovah would zap us at the big a. or people would die because of us if we didn't have extenuating circumstances (i always translated as bad health or kids, but even then, there were always "examples" of the mom with 5 kids that was pioneering).

atrapado

When I was younger I felt guilty for not doing more I pioneer for a bit over 2 years. When I came back I felt a bit guilty but I figure I was doing plenty for the congregation which to me was just an important when I visit brothers in the hostital even if I could not inform it I felt it was just as important.

I force my wife to become a pioneer she keep pioneering until she found out TTATT.

Now I was was doing territories and the service overseer who was pioneering at that time kept doing census on many of the territories. Even though I thought it was great that he would do it he would give me a mess to clean up. He had to move from the area because he had been out of work for a year that is why he was pioneering. Well when he left gave game me a ton of papers this was around October.

Well in all that mess he gave there was a sheet with the total hours for every single publisher at the hall. Out of 12 pioneers only two retired systers did over 700 hours. A few others in the low 600s. The rest on the 400-500 range. And there were 3 others on the 300-400. The lowest numbers came from an elder and his wife, both pioneers but were doing nowhere what they sign up for.

I though what a bunch of hypocrites. But the elders had a lot to say about that since they encourage them to continue even if they where not doing their time.

I also found annoying that if you are involved RBC the publishers could not count their time spend doing RBC projects but the pioneers could and were encourage to join RBC because they could count their time.

I would see sisters from other congregations come to the contrustions projects and all they did was gossip and entire time they where there. They pioneer and belong to RBC so could easily count that time.

110

Should You Be Stumbled by Watchtower Errors? You Decide!

by Ethos in

atrapado

Ethos there are about 200 bible verses that talk about 'Causing your brother to Stumble' http://www.openbible.info/topics/causing_your_brother_to_stumble

Now consider Matthew 24:36, Acts 1:7 nobody knows when the end will come.

So knowing that why would the WT set dates if they know they can stumble brothers.

Someone that sets dates knowing the above either is foolish or God actually told them. What does the WT history show?

How can the FD be discreet if they were setting dates. Are they so discreet that hold the RECORD for the most wrong doomday predictions? Check http://www.bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm no other religion organization can beat the so called discreet slave.

No consider Luke 21:8. Isn't that what the WT is doing. They claim to be appoited in 1919 ('in Jesus name') and keep saying 'The time is near' didn't Jesus said not to follow them?

Now we both agree that the Watchtower has made a lot of errors. So tell me what would happen to me if on the next time the WT says that disobeying the FD is the same as disobeying God I say:

"Brothers we all know the FD has made a lot of errors in the past so take it with a grain of salt."

Or everytime a brother says we should listen to the FD because they know better I raise my hand and comment 'The FD doesn't always know better some brothers have died because of their mistakes'

Would I be kicked out? df if I don't change my mind? Would they call the police on me?