Posts by MYOHNSEPH

I grew up in southern Mississippi and Louisiana, back in the 40s and 50s. I was the eleventh child of share-croppers. My parents never owned a home, an automobile or much of anything, till the day they died. I remember a lot of shotgun shacks, coal oil lamps, wood-burning stoves and outdoor toilets. We were the quintesential deep south "white trash" share croppers. I know first hand just how bad a lot of the black people had it, because most of our neighbors and fellow sharecroppers were black and there wasn't a great deal of difference in their lives and ours. They were abused and taken advantage of, and so were we. They, and we, were promised a lot of things we never got. By the time I got to be about fourteen years old, I knew I'd had all that kind of life I ever wanted. I quit school in the eighth grade, stuck my thumb out, and ended up about two thousand miles from Mississippi. I knew then that I had two choices. 1. I could cry and piss and moan about my lot in life and try futiley to get compensated for all I thought I had been cheated out of, or 2. I could get down to the business of putting all that behind me and making a better life for myself. I chose the latter. Today, forty-six years later, I am by no stretch a wealthy man, materially speaking, but I have a pretty comfortable life, I don't feel like I owe anyone anything and I sure as hell don't think anyone owes me.

So, what' my point? Do I think that's all really special? Not at all! That's the point! It's not special!It's just the way things are. You're born on this ball, you grow up, you work hard and do your best to make a decent life for yourself and your family. Some of that hard work succeeds and some of it fails. Some of us have a tougher row to hoe than others, but ultimately, most of us have the lives we have made for ourselves. Our life is the result of the the choices we have made and the seeds we have sown. For me to tell my neighbor he has to help me buy a bigger house or a newer automobile because of some unsettled debt my great grandfather owed his great grandfather, a hundred years ago, seems pretty absurd to me.

But, that's just me!

10

Should Christians Expect Divine Protection?

by Kenneson in

this is one of the current topics at http://www.watchtower.org  .

we are told that sometimes jehovah intervenes for his people and sometimes he doesn't.

i'm wondering if this is a shift in thinking or whether jws have always believed this.

MYOHNSEPH

"But when Jehovah chooses not to intervene, it should not be taken as a sign of his displeasure."

So, how does He do it? Choose, that is. Does he have a divine dart board? Dice? Flip a coin? Is there a criteria to be met, or is it just kinda Russian Roulette, only with somebody else's life?

Is that a stupid doctrine, or what? "Sorry about your only child burning to death in that bad auto accident, but hey, at least I saved that ninety-year-old elder who refused a bood transfusion last month!" You gotta love a god like that!

3

The most extreme witness

by freedom96 in

jw
friends

there was an elder in my hall, that everyone feared, and had the power and position to make fear a realistic reaction.. i remember him saying, that if he or any of his grandchildren were ever to be disfellowshipped, not only would he never speak to them until they came back, but he would go to the extent of removing all their pictures from the walls of his house.

how harsh is that???.

just doesn't seem to me like god would do such a thing, and a religion that supported that type of behavior just boggled my mind.

MYOHNSEPH

I remember a couple of sisters who were quite extreme in a different manner than the elder you described. Their big deal was "DEMONIZED!" Everything they disapproved of was "DEMONIZED!" Smurfs, soap operas, rock music, sci-fi movies, David Copperfield, Stephen King books, anything that lokked even remotely like a zodiac sign, you name it! There was a joke going around the KH among the teenagers at one time that these two thought pork & beans were demonized, because they made you fart when you didn't really want to.

8

A Question for All JWs to Ponder

by radar in

jw
friends

if the governing body are spirit directed, why do they need to vote on issues pertaining to faith?.

if 12 governing body members vote, and say 5 vote in favour of one understanding but 7 vote in favour of the opposite.. does this mean that the 5 who were not of the majorityv, did not have jehovah's spirit on the matter?.

is the majority rule, the right one, the spirit directed one?.

MYOHNSEPH

I'll have whatever happy man's having!

5

Artists: Post Pictures of your Equipment!

by Stephanus in

jw
friends

.

no, it's not a life-drawing exercise; show us what you use to produce your art.. here's my watercolour sketch box, with the colours i use most - permanent rose, cadmium red, cadmium yellow, lemon yellow, yellow ochre, cobalt turquoise, french ultramarine, antwerp (prussian) blue, winsor (phthalocyanine) green, raw sienna (actually a slightly darker version of yellow ochre), burnt sienna, burnt umber:.

my back-up box, with the brushes i normally use:.

MYOHNSEPH

OOOOOHH! That equipment!

Never mind!

8

A Question for All JWs to Ponder

by radar in

jw
friends

if the governing body are spirit directed, why do they need to vote on issues pertaining to faith?.

if 12 governing body members vote, and say 5 vote in favour of one understanding but 7 vote in favour of the opposite.. does this mean that the 5 who were not of the majorityv, did not have jehovah's spirit on the matter?.

is the majority rule, the right one, the spirit directed one?.

MYOHNSEPH

Maybe that's the way they weed out the scumbags. You know, like that infidel Ray Franz!

43

Reparations for slavery: Just or unjust?

by MYOHNSEPH in

jw
friends

there's such a broad range of perception on this board, i'm curious to know what you folks think of this issue.

are contemporary decendents of black slaves in the united states justified in asking for monetary reparation for their ancestors' bondage?

if you answer is in the affirmative, some related questions are:.

MYOHNSEPH

There's such a broad range of perception on this board, I'm curious to know what you folks think of this issue. Are contemporary decendents of black slaves in the United States justified in asking for monetary reparation for their ancestors' bondage? If you answer is in the affirmative, some related questions are:

1. Should the fact that a great number of those paying the tab for these reparations never had ancestors who owned slaves or supported slavery or didn't even have ancestors in this country during the period of slavery, be given any consideration?

2. Should there be a statute of limitations on how far into the past we can go to use our ancestors' abuse as a basis for material compensation or reparation?

3. Does this issue bear any resemblance to a modern day scenario where individuals of a certain race or ethnicity or retaliated against, indiscriminately, for the reprehensible actions of a few other individuals who just happen to be of the same race or ethnicity?

Care to comment?

46

Evolution vs. Creation (on Earth)

by StinkyPantz in

i didn't necessarily start this thread as a debate but moreso as kind of a survey.

i just wanna know what people think and a brief reason why.

i want to know how you think life originated on the earth.

MYOHNSEPH

Peacefulpete, let me assure you I have no interest in having the last word, the first word or any word in between. I am interested in truth. And regardless of whether or not either of of ever discover it in it's purity, truth is not contingent upon the first word or the last word nor upon my perceptions or yours nor upon affirmation or negation by any post hoc or any other hypotheses. And, by the way, it's not that I've tried to ignore post hoc ergo propter hoc, I just don't think it's much of an argument in this case. I think you've presented a gross mis-application and over-simplification of this principle. We're talking about something just a little more profound than 'after this, therfore because of this'. Obviously, all sequential events are not causally related. But it would be rather foolish to conclude that since all sequential events are not causally related, then no sequential events are causally related, regardless of the volume of evidence to the contrary. If my dog bites me on the ass one day while I'm whistling "Dixie" and I immediately conclude he bit me because I was whistling "Dixie", that would certainly be classic post hoc reasoning. But if I own that dog for fifteen years and he bites me on the ass every time I whistle "Dixie", but never on any other occasion, that's quite a different matter. If I conclude, under those circumstances, that the sequential events of my whistling "Dixie" and the dog biting my ass are causally related, that is not a matter of post hoc reasoning.

But having said that, let me say that I do sincerely respect your beliefs on this matter and certainly acknowledge the possibility that I could be the candidate for cranial proctology, rather than you!

46

Evolution vs. Creation (on Earth)

by StinkyPantz in

i didn't necessarily start this thread as a debate but moreso as kind of a survey.

i just wanna know what people think and a brief reason why.

i want to know how you think life originated on the earth.

MYOHNSEPH

Peacefulpete, with all due respect, I really don't think it's I who's missing the point here. Think about what you're saying for a moment. In essence you're saying that just about everything that happens in life is the net result of countless illions of improbable coincidences all converging at a given moment in time and space and that the astronomical improbability of it all does not, of itself alone, argue for the existence of some supernatural controling force. You're right! Of course it doesn't! But that scenario is nothing akin to the emergence of biological, intelligent life from nothing. While all of the countless incidents in your scenario were random and none deliberately designed and instigated to accomplish the ultimate result or end, each and every one of those incidents is the effect of a specific cause. Deliberate or not, designed or not, each component of your scenario is the result of mental and physical processes already in existence. You surely don't think that is comparable in probability to the emergence of a universe of uncomprehensible symetry, complexity and aparent purpose out of essentially nothing and without a specific cause!

But let me just say a couple of more things. First, my perception of intelligence and design in the universe does not arbitrarily insinuate a belief in "God", in the traditional religious context. If there is indeed an entity, or entities, of intelligence and power involved in our being here, I seriously doubt he, she, they, it, would bear much resemblance to the common religious conceptions of "God".

Secondly, what we're really discussing here is nothing more than probability. We all conduct our lives and make choices and decisions each day based on probabilities. I go to sleep each night confident the sun will rise tomorrow, based on the probability it will, but allowing for the possibility I might be wrong. My belief that intelligence and design are manifest in the universe is based on the probability of such being the case, from my assessment and finite understanding of the evidence. However, I also allow for the possibility I may be wrong. There is simply too much we don't know, to be to closed-minded and dogmatic about what we think we do know.