isn`t there enough evidence to acknowledge the god of the bible has been a failure ?according to wt / jw teachings ?.
a god that has supposed to have created the visible universe and everything in it ?.
some points where i would challenge that from an earthlings point of view using the bible if only in paraphrase.. doesn`t god create everything perfect ?
From the Watchtower side of things I ask - "Why do 144,000 humans have to give up their humanity to undo Satan's dirty work if Jehovah purposed humans to live on earth forever?"
From the other side of the Christianity coin I ask - "If God's original purpose was for humans to live forever on earth why do the faithful now go to heaven?"
Either way Satan foiled God's purpose for mankind to live on earth forever.
with the passing minimus, we all may think about what this site has meant to us personally.
i lurked here for quite a few years before becoming active as a poster....still i consider what i have done to be very slight compared with others.
may minimus rest in peace and a big thank you to all that have helped me here over the years.. a new member that is a pimo elder (reservations) posted here about how he could wake people up while remaining a pimo elder.
I agree with JW To; If you are a PIMO Elder/Ministerial Servant/Pioneer and want to help others wake up, but cannot leave at this time, the best thing you could do is quit doing anything that is not required.
Show up to the meetings and sit their like a bump on a log with a smile on your face. Isn't this the best life ever? If the elders ask you anything just answer with a big smile, "I believe whatever Jehovah's organization tells me. It is the best life ever!"
Those who want to wake up will get it.
is the fact that no god/god ever communicates with us evidence that no god/god exists?
i think it is very strong evidence that no personal god/god exits, especially a benevolent god who wants humans to know him him/her/it, to obey him/her/it, and/or to love him/her/it.
since no god/god communicates to us (including those who sincerely want communication with the/a god/god), wouldn't it be sensible for those who pray to what they believe is the/a god/god to cease all efforts to communicate to a god/god?
"Left-minded" or "left-brained" is referring to that part of human though the operates in the realm of the concept of the physical universe. If it can me measured, if it can be weighed, if it can labeled that portion of human thinking accepts it. Left-brained thinking also tends to be dismissive of right-brained thinking.
Right-brained thinking is that which we recognize, but cannot put into words of put our finger on whether literally or figuratively. It is also the realm of intuition. That is why persons who have certain experiences of a divine nature have trouble putting that experience in words.
As far as the Failed Hypothesis, I totally agree -
Stenger believes we have more than enough evidence of absence of the Judeo-Christian God. He adds that many arguments for God that were once compelling are now weak or irrelevant in light of modern scientific understanding. Stenger does not think we should be dogmatic about disbelief in God, but says the evidence is overwhelmingly against the belief.
Any evidence/experience one can obtain about God will not line up with the concepts of the Bible.
you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.
moses, samuel, abraham, etc.
but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.
Since gods were inherently imagined by man, the answer to why those gods don't answer or intervene in are lives is because the gods are really us.
Harvey,
You are an Enlightened person. Well said!
is the fact that no god/god ever communicates with us evidence that no god/god exists?
i think it is very strong evidence that no personal god/god exits, especially a benevolent god who wants humans to know him him/her/it, to obey him/her/it, and/or to love him/her/it.
since no god/god communicates to us (including those who sincerely want communication with the/a god/god), wouldn't it be sensible for those who pray to what they believe is the/a god/god to cease all efforts to communicate to a god/god?
Some people make the claim that God, a god, or some spirit being has communicated to them or to ancient people, but they have no proof of their claim.
What proof do you want? It must be measured, weighed, and labeled to prove existence is left-minded thinking, which is the very road block one must get past to find the proof you seek.
Furthermore, for someone to say "There is no God. There has to be some logical/scientific explanation for all things," is in itself a proof that such belief is based on faith. Faith is the cornerstone of religion.
Rather, to state "I have found no evidence of God. I will change my belief in God when I find evidence that suggest that," is a statement of open mindedness. It shows a person is capable of learning and growing. Of course, if you're not looking for proof how would you ever find it?
How does one prove God spoke to them? Isn't that a personal experience? I suppose that is the point. People are looking for some sort of intellectual explanation which is impossible. The only way to find it is through personal experience.
you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.
moses, samuel, abraham, etc.
but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.
"If God exists why isn't he talking to us?" is basically the question.
Once again it is important to set up some definitions or come up with an agreed terminology as a foundation.
When someone says "God" does an old white man with white hair and a white beard sitting on a gold throne on a cloud in some other realm of existence come to mind? Is it the YHWY of the Old Testament as far as the definition go? If "yes," I can see why a person would say "There's no God."
Here is where I am - Is there a God, yes or no? Answer - It doesn't matter.
As long as one lives life by these 3 principles - "This is mine. This I am. This is me." there is no point in even trying to answer it.
Is there a God? Is there life after death? How did the universe begin or does it even have a beginning? None of these questions matter as long as we propagate "This is mine, this I am, this is me."
Once you get past that the other questions will become answered.
you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.
moses, samuel, abraham, etc.
but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.
There is in material world.
you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.
moses, samuel, abraham, etc.
but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.
The point is IF there is a god why is it not apparent he is communicating with us.
Religious leaders won't let us. Any experience we have is dismissed as mental illness, drug use, or "it just has to be something else. We will figure it out in the future."
"Why?"
"Because it's not your job to have such experiences. Now, put a few crisp twenties on the plate, pass it, and praise Jesus." - Just about every religious leader in the world.
Religion vs spirituality.
you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.
moses, samuel, abraham, etc.
but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.
This all presupposes the idea of God as that of the Abrahamic faith - there is some sort of entity that is conscious, that is separate from the universe, as the universe was created by this entity.
Look at it another way - suppose there was a consciousness that decided to manifest as the universe. Everything, everyone is this divine consciousness. This consciousness wants everyone to recognize the divinity within as that is where divinity is hidden. Our job is to wake up and realize this.
you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.
moses, samuel, abraham, etc.
but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.
PistolPete:
I believe the real question being asked is "If the God of the Abrahamic faiths really exists and the literal sense of the Bible were true, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?"
If you keep trying to ask that question by reading the Bible, especially in the literal sense, you will only frustrate yourself. You will never answer the question. It is like being hungry and thinking that reading the menu will satisfy your hunger.
