i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.
i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.
those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.
7 BC = 1879 AD ; 2 BC = 1884 AD ; 11 AD = 1891 AD ; 29 AD = 1914 AD ; 33 AD = 1918 AD ; 36 AD = 1921 AD .
29 AD - 33 AD - 36 AD - 70 AD - 106 AD = 1991 AD - 1988 AD - 1984 AD - 1950 AD - 1914 AD.
google groups : alt.religion.jehovahs-witn ; alt.bible ; alt.apocalypse to go deeply into details .
i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.
i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.
those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.
Go to alt.religion.jehovahs-witn ( google group ) and see my posts there ( by OBVES ) and see how I am defending the Jehovah's Witnesses with their Watchtower . I am not a member of their organization and came to a much different understanding of the Bible and yet using that new understanding I am defending Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower .
Unquestionably they are the best christian religious organization on this face of the earth.
You should check my post history there and also go to Jehovah's Witness Online where I am posting a lot on dating based on the Bible.
One example :
1037 BC - 1034 BC - 1027 BC - 607 BC - 537 BC - 1914 AD - 1984 AD - 1991 AD - 1994 AD = 3030 years.
By this alone we can know that one day in a symbolic week can mean 1010 years.
10 BC + 20 years = 11 AD + 2000 years = 2011 AD ( two days - the last days of the present world order ).
i mentioned to a bro.
who is supposed to be answering some of my "concerns" with wt teaching that all the non-witness refs.i have seen to the fall of jerusalem place it twenty years later at 587-586 bce.. he maintains that some scholars support 607. does anyone know of a reliable scholar ,who is a recognised expert in this period,who does support 607 ?.
i am well aware that it makes no difference,as the bible nowhere gives us 2520 years,but i am fed up with his assertions and would like to blow this one out of the water so i can ask him to please check his facts.. only help if you really have time ,it's not life or death.. many thanks.
How important dates 1037 BC,607 BC ,587 BC ,537 BC , 457 BC and 455 BC are in setting up the chronology you should go to:
alt.religion.jehovahs-witn ( google group ) and check my post history there .
Also visit Jehovah's Witness Online where lately I wrote on dates 1037 BC ,537 BC which testify to the fact the Watchtower was superb in setting up the chronology in the book " Babylon the Great Has Fallen ".
i mentioned to a bro.
who is supposed to be answering some of my "concerns" with wt teaching that all the non-witness refs.i have seen to the fall of jerusalem place it twenty years later at 587-586 bce.. he maintains that some scholars support 607. does anyone know of a reliable scholar ,who is a recognised expert in this period,who does support 607 ?.
i am well aware that it makes no difference,as the bible nowhere gives us 2520 years,but i am fed up with his assertions and would like to blow this one out of the water so i can ask him to please check his facts.. only help if you really have time ,it's not life or death.. many thanks.
If any one on any religious discussion group uses obscene language it is a clear testimony that person must be in an unsaved condition
and bear in mind that what will happen if the promised end of the present world order comes to an end in 2011 AD ?
i mentioned to a bro.
who is supposed to be answering some of my "concerns" with wt teaching that all the non-witness refs.i have seen to the fall of jerusalem place it twenty years later at 587-586 bce.. he maintains that some scholars support 607. does anyone know of a reliable scholar ,who is a recognised expert in this period,who does support 607 ?.
i am well aware that it makes no difference,as the bible nowhere gives us 2520 years,but i am fed up with his assertions and would like to blow this one out of the water so i can ask him to please check his facts.. only help if you really have time ,it's not life or death.. many thanks.
The Bible has the numbers and these were written in the Hebrew as words . If we must study God's Word to come to the knowledge of the True God we must study ,then, the numbers ! But to do just that there was not time given by God Yahweh - Daniel 12.4,9 .
We need to learn about numbers in the end-time era to find out when the second coming of the Messiah may take place.
If you don't understand the Divine Numerology based on the Bible you may not know when to expect the end of the world
and you will be caught surprised .
i mentioned to a bro.
who is supposed to be answering some of my "concerns" with wt teaching that all the non-witness refs.i have seen to the fall of jerusalem place it twenty years later at 587-586 bce.. he maintains that some scholars support 607. does anyone know of a reliable scholar ,who is a recognised expert in this period,who does support 607 ?.
i am well aware that it makes no difference,as the bible nowhere gives us 2520 years,but i am fed up with his assertions and would like to blow this one out of the water so i can ask him to please check his facts.. only help if you really have time ,it's not life or death.. many thanks.
Go to Jehovah's Witness Online forum and check the subforum on the end-times there . I wrote numerous explanations in defence of these two dates.
Also check alt.apocalypse (the google group ) .
The book by the Watchtower " Babylon the Great Has Fallen " gives the chronology that I prove immensely and puts the Jehovah's Witnesses as the best christian organization by the virtue of the dating alone !
1037 BC - 1034 BC - 1027 BC - 607 BC - 587 BC - 537 BC - 1914 AD - 1984 AD - 1991 AD - 1994 AD.
1034 BC - 1994 AD = 3030 years which hides the truth that one symbolic day of a symbolic week has 1010 years.
4027 BC - 3044 AD = 7070 years- one week.
1034 BC - 1027 BC - 607 BC = 7 years + 420 years = 7 weeks of Daniel 9.
587 BC - 517 BC = 70 years .
517 BC + 2520 years = 2004 AD
587 BC + 70 years + 2520 years = 70 weeks of Daniel 9.
587 BC + 2520 years + 7 years as 7 weeks of Daniel 9 = 2011 AD.
How I came to these formulas go to alt.religion.jehovahs-witn ( the google group ) and click on "options" and "messages by this author ". (OBVES).
i thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.
17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?
What to you need is to go one step further and seek how God of the Bible is understood in our present days if they are to be our final days and Daniel 12.4,9 is actually taking place now .
Just use simple common sense . To have one God in three persons we would have to have in the Bible written like that:
1/3 of God - the Father , 1/3 of God - the Son , 1/3 of God - the Holy Ghost .
God of Israel was called the Father . The only one true God is the Father of Israel - Exodus 4.22 as he called Israel His first-born son.
Whenever a word God is applied in the Bible to any other being it must be interpreted in the context they appear and in relation to other binding statements. Isaiah 28.9-10.
John 20.17 :
Jesus said " My Father and your Father , My God and your God . It is simple as that and it confirmes what I have just said.
Moses in Exodus 7.1 is called God .
Note there werer no capital letters used in the old Hebrew language, so we deal with the word " god " in each and very case .
That makes understanding who is God extremely difficult and one needs spirtitual enlightment to grasp the truth who is God .
Yahweh is god , Moses is god, Jesus is god and there are and were other gods !
Now today using the English language I can easily use the size of the letters to express well the truth who is God Yahweh.
Yahweh - GOD , Jesus - God , 144000 gods , Moses - " God" and some great ancients " gods " .
If you read deeply into this one single statement above you may get the point who is God Yahweh and who are other gods.
If I were translating John 1.1 I would use the two words there to make a distinction .
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with GOD and the Word was God.
I used to attack Jehovah's Witnesses on the issue of Jesus .Using Hebrew 1.8 to that effect to later find out that I was wrong and
Jehovoh's Witnesses that I talked didn't have the right explanation to convince me . Later on I came up with the satisfactory explanation that supports
Jehovahs Witness view .
If you are seriously interested in looking for more explanations on the subject who is God Yahweh and who is Jesus and the Holy Ghost go to the google group : alt.religion.jehovahs-witn . I wrote there on these subjects before. I am not a Jehovah's Witness ( from the organization you have in mind ) yet I have found more proofs to confirm their numerous beliefs .
considering the history of the "organization", and how beliefs, practices and attitudes have changed through time, was there ever any time that a "international bible student" or jw was relatively more enlightened or had more freedoms than members of other religions?
or have they always been enslaved to one set of superstitious beliefs or another, to a greater degree than most other religions?
If you knew my prediction for 2011 AD you would have a good reason to shout for being one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
If you are in any other organized church you should be shaking now out of fear of what may happen in 2011 AD.
the wts have a history of false prophecies, including teachings that armageddon and the end of the world would occur in 1914, 1918, 1925, and 1975. .
most of us didn't see that the true point of authority was not the bible, but the watchtower magazine, awake magazine,ministry school and the ever-changing views of the governing body.
the word of god in the bible does not change and a prophecy that does not come true is not of god's doing.
This could be and should be the main reason why so many stay within that organization. You would have to find a good replacement to quit the organization and you will not find a better one I assume.You would need a very good new organization to be in and feel well and assured of salvation.
If you know my post history I proved how important is the date 1914 AD in the end-time era . But you have to learn also whay is the nature of the present end-time predictions and who can make such predictions.
christians recognize "jesus",as the mediator between god and man.....jehovah`s witness`s recognize the "watchtower bible and tract society",as the mediator between god and man.....jesus is out of a job!
!..the wbt$ fired him a long time ago!..lol!
!......................jehovah`s witness`s don`t follow the words of jesus.they follow the words of the wbt$.....are jehovah`s witness`s christian`s?...................................outlaw
I didn't express myself well .I was thinking that you looked at the Watchtower financial side than what it teaches about the Bible.
Check Harold Camping's Open Forum ( http://www.familyradio.com ) what he is telling to his listeners what they should do with their money in view of his prediction the world will end on October,21,2011 AD.
I don't need to give any dime to anyone living on this earth now as my life has been turning around the end-of-the-world predictions for many years .This is one of the best jobs a man can have to study the Bible and teach others what I learnt from the Bible.
