Posts by orbison11

15

Wt tax exempt status challenged in Canada

by JosephMalik in

jw
friends

.

joseph reed is challenging the wt in bc canada.. http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/reedvswt.html.

joseph.

orbison11

here is something i found on mr. reed,,,,a bit of a long letter from 2002...he was then residing in a suburb of vancouver,,delta, bc

JOSEPH REED
[edited for privacy reasons]
(Ladner) Delta, B.C.
CANADA V4K 2W6
Phone (604) [edited for privacy reasons]
23 May 2002

CHRIS CHRISTENSEN
Box 447
Lac du Bonnet
MANITOBA R0E 1A0

Hello Chris,

I was very pleased with your phone call yesterday, and I am gratified that my resume of Ray Franz’s book, CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE, Third Edition — Revised and Updated, 2000, aroused your interest.

Really, Ray’s book raises more questions than it answers. Too, you seem to share with me that Ray knows very much more than he tells of, in his book. I here present the following example:

Cast your mind back, to about 1972, to after you and I had been Disfellowshipped. I made a car trip out to Manitoba to have some association with you. In the course of our discussing spiritual matters, you happened to say that Paul never worked out of the Jerusalem Congregation, no, but that he worked out of the Antioch Congregation. Also, you said that what the Watchtower depicts as a ‘Council’, of a supposed ‘Governing Body’, that was convened in Jerusalem, with James as the ‘Chairman’, was no such a ‘Council’, at all, but was rather something of a Congregational Judicial Public Hearing of James, as to why James had been sending out men to Antioch, those men were teaching that the new converts from among the Gentiles, should become circumcised. You there stated that it was Paul who had admonished the Antioch Congregation to send Paul and Barnabas and some others, to go up to Jerusalem to have James examined publicly by the Congregation, as to why James was spreading such a teaching as circumcision to be enforced upon the Gentile believers.

I there listened enraptured as to what you had said. Here was a hidden Truth that was immediately self—evident, from the moment you there put it into words. Manifestly, Paul owed no allegiance to the Jerusalem Congregation. Paul worked out of Antioch. James, rather than speaking as some supposed ‘Chairman’, of some supposed ‘Governing Body’, was actually making public apology, confession, to the Cong. in Jerusalem, for his having sent out men to Antioch to enforce circumcision upon the Gentiles, when, “James answered, saying: “Men, brothers, hear me....”....“ Acts 15:13. N.W.T.

I marveled Chris, that you had come up with such a simple, but profound Truth, which so easily shattered the Watchtower’s ‘Governing Body’ myth. I said to myself, “Where did this man get this wisdom and these powerful works? Is this not the (papermaker)? Is not his mother called ...., and his brothers.....? .....Where, then, did this man get all these things?” Matthew 13:54—56. N.W.T.

Oddly though, it struck me that you were not so excited with this astounding Truth which you had come up with, as I, your hearer, was so struck. Too, I seem to recall that your above-views you then put into writing, and distributed around in the form of a letter to various individuals.

I was so very impressed with the way you had demolished the ‘Governing Body’ whimsey of the Watchtower, by showing that Paul worked independent of “James and Cephas and John, the ones who seamed to be pillars (in the Jerusalem Congregation)”, Galatians 2:9 N.W.T., by Paul working out of the Antioch Congregation, that I immediately incorporated that welcome Truth into my own body of faith. Since then I have written many letters to various ones, stating this Truth, but always saying that I had acquired that Truth from you, Chris Christensen. I made sure too, that Brooklyn received copies of my letters, so that they too, could be kept up to date.

Along about 1980 or thereabouts, a paper came into my possession, written by Joseph Malik, of Wilmington, N.C., and to my surprise Joseph too was expressing quite the same thought as you had expressed previously. Naturally, I thought that Joseph must have read your writings, and like me, incorporated the Truth that Paul bypassed the ones in the Jerusalem Congregation, and instead hewed to those of the Antioch Congregation. On my writing to Joseph Malik to ask whether or not he had perhaps read some of your writings, and had from them learned the excellent Truth about Paul not being subservient to the Jerusalem Congregation, and it’s Watchtower—perceived ‘Governing Body’, Joseph replied that he had no knowledge of any of your papers, and that he and his wife, in their study of the Bible together, had arrived at their conclusion entirely without outside input.

Now comes the interesting part:

In his book, CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE, 2000 edition, Ray Franz relates, P 88, that Fred Franz addressed the graduating School of Gilead, on 7 September 1975, and on reading the clips from Fred Franz’s talk I almost fell off of my chair. Why? He there presented to the entire Gilead Graduating Class, the very exact same Truth about Paul and the Antioch Congregation over—riding the Jerusalem Congregation, which you had presented to me back in 1972, and which you later set down in written form. The exact same information is set out in the original edition of CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE, in the chapter Internal Upheaval and Restructure.

I had read the same material in the ‘first’ print of CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE, almost 20 years ago, and realized the very same point, but at that time my own anti—Watch Tower activities crowded—out any time to pursue it, and now that my anti-Watch Tower confrontations have matured and have become recorded in legal—history (which record I intend to present to King JESUS Christ, at his material, visible arrival at earth, as record of how I have used the talent given to me. Matthew chap. 25. N.W.T.), I now have the time available to refer Fred Franz’s discourse to you, Chris.

How very interesting indeed, is Ray Franz’s summation of Fred Franz’s Gilead Graduating address. It almost sounds like a summation of the conversation which you and I had back in 1972, where you showed that Paul did no kow-towing to any prominent ones of the Jerusalem Congregation, no, but Paul aligned himself with the Antioch Congregation. Ray’s comment:

CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE INTERNAL Upheaval and Restructure 91

‘The vice president’s exposition now took a strange turn, one that actually contradicted the official teaching as to the divine authority for a governing body from the first century onward. The history of Paul, the converted Saul, was first related; that, after his conversion, when he went to Jerusalem he saw only two of the apostles, not the whole body of them; how he eventually came to Antioch in Syria. Having said that, in selecting and appointing Saul of Tarsus, Christ “took direct action without consulting any man or body of men on earth,” the vice president now presented a sort of “Tale of Two Cities,” in which the role of Antioch was set over against that of Jerusalem as regards the missionary activity of Paul and Barnabas. In what follows, keep in mind the existing official Watch Tower teaching that there was a governing body based in Jerusalem that exercised supervisory direction over all congregations of Christians in all places and that in this it was the model for the present-day governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

In relating the holy Spirit’s calling of Paul and Barnabas to missionary activity, the vice president continually emphasized that all this was done through the Antioch congregation (hence not through Jerusalem where the apostolic body was located). 10 He said:

10 It should be remembered that the whole basis for the Witnesses’ teaching of a “governing body” arrangement and authority is that there was such an arrangement operating from Jerusalem in Bible times.

Ray Franz was shocked at what he was hearing Fred Franz say. Like the Chris Christensen conversation of 1972, Fred Franz was there demolishing the entire ‘Governing Body’ notion. Ray continues on Page 92:

92 CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE

And then, all of a sudden as he [Paul] was serving in Antioch, in Syria, not in Israel but in Syria, why God’s spirit spoke to that congregation there in Antioch and said; “Now of all things, you set aside, YOU, this congregation in Antioch, you set aside these two men, namely Barnabas and Saul for the work for which I have commissioned them.” And so the Antioch congregation did that and they laid their hands upon Paul (or Saul) and Barnabas and sent them forth. . . and they went forth by the holy spirit operating through the Antioch congregation and they went out on their first missionary assignment.

So, you see the Lord Jesus Christ was acting as the Head of the congregation and taking action directly, without consulting anybody here on earth what he could do and what he could not do. And he acted in that way in regard to Saul and Barnabas and they were both apostles of the Antioch congregation.

At this point of the talk I recall sitting there and saying to myself, “Does the man realize what he is saying? I know what his goal is, to de-emphasize the Governing Body so as to maintain the authority of the corporation and its president, but does he realize the implication of what he is saying? In the process of attaining his goal he is undermining the whole teaching and claim about the existence of a centralized, first-century governing body operating out of Jerusalem with earthwide authority to supervise and direct all congregations of true Christians everywhere in all matters, a concept that the Society’s publications have built up in the minds of all of Jehovah’s Witnesses and to which the vast majority hold today.”

But the vice president had by no means finished and he drove the idea home with even greater force. Describing the completion of Paul and Barnabas’ first missionary tour, he continued with growing intensity and dramatization:

Ray Franz immediately recognized the Truth of Fred Franz’s exposition. Exactly as I had immediately recognized the Truth of your very same exposition which you gave back in 1972 Chris. Ray states:

Internal Upheval and Restructure 93

His points were completely valid. They were also completely contrary to the view presented in the Society’s publications, which present a picture of Jerusalem as the seat of a governing body, exercising full authority and direction over all Christians as Christ’s agency, acting with divine authority. That is doubtless why, unlike other talks the vice president had given, this one was never used as the basis for articles in the Watchtower magazine.

For any individual Witness to present such an argument today would be counted as heretical, rebellious speech. If actually applied as stated, his words would mean that any congregation on earth could send out its own missionaries if they believed Christ Jesus and holy Spirit so directed, doing so without consulting anyone else, whether in Brooklyn or in a Branch Office. There was no question in my mind as to the quick and adverse reaction this would provoke from the Society’s headquaters and it’s offices. It would be viewed as a threat to their centralized authority and any congregation doing this would in so many words be asked, “do you know who we are? Don’t’ you

My overwhelming thought in all of this was: By What quirk of co-incidence did Fred Franz utter this astonishing Truth about Paul ignoring the Watchtower’s beloved ‘Governing Body’ in Jerusalem, in favour of the Antioch Congregation . . . and right at 1975? Why hadn’t Fred Franz expressed those views, say in 1971, or earlier? Had something showed up just prior to 1975, which had: revealed the correct view of Paul and the Antioch Congregation, and their ignoring of the Jerusalem Congregation, such that it was now dominant in Fred Franz’ a mind?

I am very much tempted to answer “Yes”, to the above question. And what perhaps, could that answer be?

As is my wont, I had been spreading letters around to a varied mailing list of persons, and for decades now I have always included Brooklyn in my mailing list. As stated, I had incorporated into my own faith, that Truth which you had taught me in 1972 Chris, about how Paul went out as an apostle of Antioch, and not an apostle of the Jerusalem crowd. Too, I had consistently written that I had acquired that Truth from you. It was not of my own originality. Had that information, influenced Fred Franz’s thinking, and caused the Graduation address?

At this time it is not possible to conclude that my assumption is correct. But Ray offers enticing morsels which lead me to suspect that that Truth had gotten around, from you to me, and from me through letters to various ones, and perhaps to others who later took a stand on that Truth and perhaps may even have been Disfellowshipped for their stand. I will return to this later.

But what Ray Franz had just there said, reinforces my view that the Watch Tower Society has been on Red Alert, worldwide (as the military might say), for decades now, in expectation of, “. . . . Elijah who is destined to come. . . .” Matt. 11:14. N.W.T. As soon as Elijah shows up, the Congregations have been carefully trained to isolate such one, and then extirpate him from the congregations. Consider what Ray just there said. Ray says of Fred Franz, “His points were completely valid. They were also completely contrary to the view presented in the Society’s publications.... For any individual Witness to present such an argument today would be counted as heretical rebellious speech . . . . There was no question in my mind as to the quick and adverse reactions this would provoke from the Society’s headquarters and it’s offices. It would even be viewed as a threat to their centralized authority and any congregation doing this would . . .” Page 93.

Such words, coming from Ray Franz, with all of his years of High Profile in the Watch Tower Society, corroborates for me, my belief that the Society’s unnatural pre-occupation with expunging at first sight, any sign of individual-belief, rather than corporate-belief, suggests that the Watch Tower Society lives in day—to—day fear of the, “. . . Elijah who is destined to come....”, showing up somewhere in the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Reasonably, Elijah will re—assert individual—faith, instead of the Watch Tower—style corporate—faith of Jehovah’s Witnesses of to-day. Does not Malachi 4:5,6, N.W.T.. say, “Look. I am sending to YOU people Elijah the prophet before the coming: of the great and fear—inspiring day of (GOD). And he must turn the heart, of fathers back toward sons, and the heart of sons back toward fathers; in order that I may not come and actually strike the earth with a devoting (of it) to-destruction”? Every contemplation of’ the Watch Tower Society, worldwide, is geared—up to causing an abortion of Elijah just as soon as the birth—pains, are detected on Watch Tower’s world—wide Intelligence Network, Revelation 12:1—4. N.W.T., of his imminent arrival.

This way—out, fantastic, all—consuming engrossment of the Watch Tower Society, in enforcing it’s Disfellowshipping doctrine, with all of it’s secret record—keeping, and cloak—and—dagger activity, surely is very suggestive in itself, that the Society is in day—to—day fear of, and expectation of One showing up among Jehovah’s Witnesses, of whom JESUS said, “Elijah does come first and restore all things (which the Watch Tower Society has corrupted)” Mark 9:12 N.W.T.

Consider now, the burdensome responsibility which the Watch Tower Society has laid upon each and every one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, in being alert to the emergence of anyone who questions the official doctrines of the Watch- Tower Society. I quote here from the book, ORGANIZATION FOR KINGDOM—PREACHING AND DISCIPLE-MAKING, published in 1972, and presumably Ray Franz either had a part in compiling that book, or he signed Watch Tower’s. Nihil Obstat of that book, being that he became a member of the ‘Governing Body’ in 1971. Ray was under the same obligation to uphold the instructions outlined in that book, as was even the most lowly Witness of Jehovah was obligated to uphold that book.

ORGANIZATION FOR KINGDOM-PREACHING, DISCIPLE MAKING

EACH ONE’S PART IN SAFEGUARDING THE CLEANNESS OF THE CONGREGATION

SAFEGUARDING THE CLEANNESS OF THE CONGREGATION 181

of righteousness, contribute to the fine reputation of Jehovah’s people. So do younger persons, by obedience to their parents and by refusing to imitate the world and it’s ways. (Compare Luke 2:51, 52) When you take care to teach interested persons the Bible’s high moral standards before they get baptized, this, too, acts to keep the entire Christian congregation earth wide clean. These are things that it is most important to do, so that the spirit of God may continue to operate freely on the congregation. – 1 Cor. 5:5, 1 Thess. 5:23.

If you personally are ever a witness to serious wrong-doing on the part of a baptized member of the congregation or an unbaptized person regularly associated with it, loyalty to Jehovah and his Son and love f or your brothers should move you to bring the matter to the attention of the judicial committee. (Ps. 31:23) If is no real kindness to the wrongdoer to conceal his un-christian conduct; it may only contribute to his becoming hardened in sin to the point where he cannot turn back, and so lead to his everlasting destruction. Certainly it shows no love for Jehovah God or his people when one becomes a party to wickedness by concealing those who practice it. (Deut. 13: 6-8) In ancient Israel a public curse was pronounced on any who knowing the facts of a certain wrongdoing or crime, failed to come forward with such testimony. (Lev. 5:1; Prov. 29:24) One who loves righteousness and is truly loyal to Jehovah God and Christ Jesus will courageously step forward and make known the sinful conduct and conscientiously testify to the truth of the matter before the Judicial committee when called on to do so. – Ex. 20:2,3

Clearly, every one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, from the most prominent one, to the most lowly, is constrained by this Watch Tower Diktat to keep his Brother under surveillance, and to report on him to the congregation Judicial Committee, any deviation from Watch Tower teachings. The Diktat even says that if a J.W. does not report the deviant teachings his Brother might be promoting, then, that J.W., “becomes a party to wickedness by concealing, those who practice it”. Indeed, the ORGANIZATION book says that such an observer of his Brother, “will courageously step forward and make known the sinful conduct arid conscientiously testify to the truth of the matter before the judicial committee. . .”

Now, being that Ray Franz, Governing Body member since one year before the ORGANIZATION book was published, attached his Imprimatur to said book, it is here pertinent to examine why Ray did not turn in his uncle, Fred Franz, to any Watch Tower Society ‘Judicial Committee’, with an accusation of heresy, or apostasy, due to the public statements Fred Franz made ‘in the Graduation address of the Gilead, School, in...I975, where in Fred Franz openly’ disavowed the Watch Tower Doctrine of a so—called, ‘Governing Body’, operating out of the Jerusalem Congregation, and Fred Franz there argued that Paul and Barnabas were apostles of the Antioch Congregation and not apostles of any Jerusalem Congregation, and it’s perceived, ‘Governing Body’.

Ray had said, in CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE, concerning Fred Franz’s talk, “His (Fred Franz’s) points-were completely valid. They were also completely contrary to the view presented in the Society’s publications”.

Ray also said, of Fred Franz’ a talk, “For any individual Witness to present such an argument today would. be counted as heretical, rebellious speech”. Page 93 CHRISIS OF CONSCIENCE. 2000 Edition.

If Ray was so very convinced then, of his uncle Fred’s publicly-spoken heresy of anti—Watch Tower sentiment, then why didn’t Ray put his actions where his mouth was, when he Imprimatured the book, “ORGANIZATION FOR KINGDOM-PREACHING AND DISCIPLE-M.AKING”? In that book, Ray, by his mouth was enjoining every Witness of Jehovah to turn—in his Brother at the first sign of his Brother’s heresy, but in Ray’s book, CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE, Ray declined such action when the onus was upon him, Ray, to turn in his Brother and uncle Fred Franz, when Fred Franz clearly, and publicly, before a large audience, was promoting teachings that were contrary to official Watch Tower Society teaching.

Are there now two sorts of measures in force among God’s People, Jehovah’s Witnesses? One law to be upheld, by the rank—and—file Jehovah’s Witnesses, but another law only for Ray of the ‘Governing Body’? “Two sorts of weights and two sorts of ephah measures — they are both of them together something detestable to (GOD)”. Proverbs 20:10. N.W.T.

Actually, what can be seen in this peradventure, is a corroboration of what was declared in A PRONOUNCENT: Concerning Justice For Jehovah’s People, page 1, par. 3, being: “As Witnesses for Jehovah we declare, . . . it is not difficult to see that we fulfill, in many details, the religious way of life of God’s people of earlier times, namely, the descendants of Jacob and the first century C.E. Christian congregation . . .”

And how can that be seen? In that, “They (Ray Franz and the Governing Body) bind up heavy loads and put them upon the shoulders of (Jehovah’s Witnesses) men, (Such as the ORGANIZATION book requiring one to turn in his Brother), but they themselves (Ray Franz and all of the other Shining Ones of the Governing Body who heard Fred Franz’s heretical Graduation address) are not willing to budge them with their finger”. Matthew 23:4. N.W.T. Neither Ray nor any of the others informed on Watch Tower—heretic, Fred Franz, for his talk, but the very same ones demand that all others of Jehovah’s Witnesses inform on their Brothers. Manifestly there are, “. . . two sorts of ephah measures”, being used. Pro. 20:10.

To here add a little more perspective: Fred Franz, before a huge crowd at the Gilead Graduation ceremony, his talk tape—recorded as evidence for posterity, taught, not suggested, but taught publicly, that Paul and Barnabas were apostles of the Antioch Congregation, and were not apostles of the Jerusalem Congregation, and that they were not sent out by any supposed ‘Governing Body’, in Jerusalem. Ray Franz had said, “His points were completely valid. They were also completely contrary to the view presented in the Society’s publications . . . For any in individual Witness to present such an argument today would be counted as heretical, rebellious speech . . .”

No action taken. No one informed on Fred Franz, Watch Tower—heretic.

However, in my case, the JOSEPH REED case, when I proposed a question, wholly in private, to only a Congregation Judicial. Committee, and to no one else, my question being: Perhaps, is the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, “Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth”. . .”? Rev.17:5. N.W.T., the Judicial Committee’s, “. . .feet kept running to sheer badness, and they (were) in a hurry to shed (my) innocent blood”. Isaiah 59:7. N.W.T. And I was Disfellowshipped that very hour.

Why the two different approaches in the two different instances? In the one instance, where I was asking only a question, not propounding a teaching, and that only in private to the Judicial Committee. In the other instance, where Fred Franz was promoting a teaching, not propounding a question, and promoting his anti—Watch Tower teaching in public before all of the Watch Tower Dignitaries there in General Assembly, and Ray Franz couldn’t even bring himself to do what he was compelling every one else to do, in the ORGANIZATION book, that is, to turn—in any Watch Tower heretic, to the Judicial Committee.

In the event, I did find answer to my question. After being Disfellowshipped, and discovering the joy of reading the Bible without having to pry-bar every sentence into a meaning that the Watchtower magazine had urged upon me, I began to see that the Watch Tower Society is not, “Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots”, but parallels much more closely, the, “wild beast”, that the “woman (is) sitting upon . . . that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads (seven Directors) and ten horns”. Rev. 17:3. N.W.T. I reasoned that “Babylon the Great” is a much more ancient entity than is the Johnny—come—lately Watch Tower Society, which latter only appeared upon the scene in the 1870’s. I aver that “Babylon the Great” was in operation among God’s People, when Paul said that “the man of lawlessness . . .is set in opposition. . . so that he sits down in the temple of The God....” 2 Thess. 2:3, 4. N.W.T. Watch Tower was not in existence then.

Postscript: Is Ray Franz saying that there are others of Jehovah’s Witnesses who have taken up on the Truth that Paul and Barnabas were apostles of the Antioch Congregation, and have renounced the Watch Tower—view that Paul and Barnabas were apostles of a ‘Governing Body’ in Jerusalem? Interesting.

94 CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE

And so as we examine this account of these two most outstanding among the missionaries recorded in Bible history, we find that they were sent out especially by the Lord Jesus Christ, the Head of the church, a fact which the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society has upheld and accepted ever since the Society was formed. So, we see how the Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church and has a right to act direct, without whatever other organizations in view, no matter who they are. He is the Head of the church. We can’t challenge what HE DOES.

Those last three sentences spoken by the vice president represent the position that had been taken in recent times by a number of Witnesses. For taking that identical position, they were and are now labeled ‘apostates.’

Joseph Reed

354

Watch Tower sues Quotes for $100,000 plus plus plus...

by Quotes in

court file no.

superior court of justice.

watchtower bible and tract society of .

orbison11

greetings

dont have time to read thru all posts, but have any created any generic 'letters to the editors' that about a thousand or 3 of us could send to our small / large local papers,,,, soon?

if so please pm me with info

thanks

orbi

9

anyone ever find raising children as jw's.....

by orbison11 in

jw
friends

was, at times difficult, due to all the restrictions placed on them, .

which led to strains in the parent/child relationships,,,,,, then years later, after that child had grown and had children,,,had,,,well, come back to you.

i just bought myself a shredder to do some purging of life and paper:).

orbison11

gill: thanks i felt your arm around my shoulder:) was kinda hoping to get that, ,,,,,,vancouver time here, now maybe i can go to bed

paul:too funny, my daughters name is amy lol

wendy

9

anyone ever find raising children as jw's.....

by orbison11 in

jw
friends

was, at times difficult, due to all the restrictions placed on them, .

which led to strains in the parent/child relationships,,,,,, then years later, after that child had grown and had children,,,had,,,well, come back to you.

i just bought myself a shredder to do some purging of life and paper:).

orbison11

was, at times difficult, due to all the restrictions placed on them,

which led to strains in the parent/child relationships,,,,,, then years later, after that child had grown and had children,,,had,,,well, come back to you

i just bought myself a shredder to do some purging of life and paper:)

so i found a stack with all the divorce papers, about 7 years old, sheesh they were nasty,,x-a jw, and 3 (most grown) jw and one df'd.....................i was df'd

i tried not to read as i was shredding, but i couldnt help myself in some parts

my one child, the difficult of the 4, which i now feel had learning issue, incl dsylexia, etc, claims i once told him to go to hell,,,,hhmmm,,that is so not my language,,,,,but i am thinking, well maybe i did, always alone trying to raise the 4 children, pioneer, work part time, etc,,,,i might have, but i dont remember it

we are estranged, with my oldest (daughter-df'd) and i emailing sporadically

just wondering, did any of you go thru something like this, with at least one of the children wanting to have a relationship with you,,,,,i am feeling that after all those years i thought i was a good parent and loved them, that they all hate me,,,hhmm

ok pity parti over,,,but just wondering,,,well hoping i think is the truth

thanks

orbi

33

Serena returns money won in gambling

by DevonMcBride in

jw
friends

does the watchtower allow gambling if the winnings are returned?

http://www.newkerala.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=15686serena returns money won in gambling .

new york: tennis star and tv actress serena williams returned her winnings in gambling recently as she is a jehovah's witness and it is against her faith to gamble.. .