Posts by matt2414

3

Would a loving, all-wise God use Jehovah's Witnesses and their Governing Body as His best way to save all mankind?

by matt2414 in

after all these years of preaching since charles taze russell in the 1880s.

there are only about 7.5 million "active" witnesses in the world.

if god "doesn't want to destroy anyone" (2 peter 3:9), are the witnesses really god's best effort to save us all?

matt2414

After all these years of preaching since Charles Taze Russell in the 1880s. there are only about 7.5 million "active" Witnesses in the world. If God "doesn't want to destroy anyone" (2 Peter 3:9), are the Witnesses really God's best effort to save us all? Why would so many people be leaving that group if that were our only hope? Aren't the Witnesses really proving the perhaps God doesn't have the right to rule over mankind since their efforts are a virtual failure and self-defeating? Just wondering ...

45

If you were a Witness, when did you realize the Governing Body was apostate?

by matt2414 in

for more than 30 years i believed everything that came from the watchtower society, especially since i lived at bethel for a while and i knew a lot of the gb members, who to me seemed intelligent and personable.

at the beginning, the emphasis was on the bible, the kingdom, jehovah and jesus.

but gradually over time, there would appear an elephant in the room that no one seemed to talk about, such as the change in the understanding of "generation.

matt2414

For more than 30 years I believed everything that came from the Watchtower Society, especially since I lived at Bethel for a while and I knew a lot of the GB members, who to me seemed intelligent and personable. At the beginning, the emphasis was on the Bible, the kingdom, Jehovah and Jesus. But gradually over time, there would appear an elephant in the room that no one seemed to talk about, such as the change in the understanding of "generation." Then another elephant would appear when they started to harbor child molesters by not "giving Caesar's things to Caesar" and calling in reports of abuses. Then another elephant when "generation" changed again. Then another elephant appeared when the Gb usurped Jehovah and Christ and began demanding obedience that only rightfully should go to God. Then another elephant when "generation" changed again.

Now that I've been out for a while, I can see there's a whole damn zoo in there and everyone inside is afraid to talk about it.

Did anyone else have an a-ha! moment when they knew something was smelling bad? (Perhaps from all the elephants in the room?)

6

Should laws originate from God or the governing body?

by matt2414 in

the aug. 15, 2012, study edition of the watchtower (page 13, par.

"8 how can you know whether you truly love gods laws?

examine the way you react when you receive counsel about what you feel is a personal preferencefor example, on the matter of dress and grooming.

matt2414

The Aug. 15, 2012, study edition of The Watchtower (page 13, par. 8) says:

"8 How can you know whether you truly love God’s laws? Examine the way you react when you receive counsel about what you feel is a personal preference—for example, on the matter of dress and grooming. Before becoming a Kingdom citizen, you may have preferred
to dress sloppily or provocatively. As your love for God grew, you learned to dress in a way that honors him. (1 Tim. 2:9, 10; 1 Pet. 3:3, 4)"

When did dress and grooming become a law? The two Bible texts cited aren't laws. Paul expressed his desire or wish on how women should dress -- not a law -- and Peter says that women should focus not just on their outward appearance, but they should also give attention to their inner selves -- again, not a law. Why would the so-called "faithful slave" twist these texts to make them appear as laws? After combing the scriptures (in Acts 15), didn't the first century older men only find a few requirements that were necessary for Christians?

For that matter, when did "slaves" start giving barking orders in the Master's house? Shouldn't they be focusing on feeding Christ's belongings spritual food until his return, instead of making up imaginary "laws"? (Matt 24:45, 46)

19

Jesus is pro-gays and anti-religionists

by Fernando in

.

simple version:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrlzyw6ulyw.

matt2414

Fernando, you may be on to something. Many fundamentalists teach that homosexuality is the worst sin, even more damning than murder or idolatry. Others claim that when Adam and Eve ate of the "apple," that was really a metaphor for them having sex, which they claim was a sin. God created sexual desire in humans and animals, a desire just as great as hunger for food. Why would he make it a sin to act on that desire? How evil would that be? I can't help but believe religionists are blaspheming God when they promote this idea, because they are in effect blaming him since he put the idea and desire in us in the first place. Spiritually speaking, they are the biggest whores around.

PS: I sent you a personal message.

19

Jesus is pro-gays and anti-religionists

by Fernando in

.

simple version:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrlzyw6ulyw.

matt2414

Mind blown, great post and insight on your part!

So many people say that homosexuality is incomprehensible to God. Yet, he designed all the birds, animals and insects on earth, and among all of them there are hundreds of species that exhibit homosexuality and same-sex pair bonding. Even plants exhibit bisexuality. There is no evidence they were affected by the sin of man, and even the Witnesses are constantly marveling at their amazing design. In other words, God must have thought of and designed homosexuality as part of his creation. That's why the Bible never addresses homosexuals or homosexuality disparagingly.

All Bible texts that are used by moralists to condemn homosexuality actually are not addressed to gays and lesbians living among the Israelites or the early Christian congregation, but rather to the heterosexuals. When read in this manner, it changes completely our understanding of what is said, and more importantly, why it was said. The context almost always had to do with -- not immorality but -- idolatry. From Genesis through Revelation, pure worship has been the overriding live-or-death issue, not sex or sexual orientation.

19

Jesus is pro-gays and anti-religionists

by Fernando in

.

simple version:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrlzyw6ulyw.

matt2414

Looking closely at the example of Jesus in the scriptures, I find that he treated women better than the men of his time, he treated Samaritans better than their Jewish rivals, by speaking to them and not acknowledging the Samaritan insults others often used at that time, and he treated lepers much better than was customary at the time. As for homosexuals, neither Jesus nor the rest of the scriptures make mention of them. Most of the biases toward these groups came from others, not Christ. Oftentimes, also, readers insert their own biases in the scriptures where none existed, for example, using the Bible to disparage blacks.

2

List all the debunks with sources

by thecrushed in

i'd like to make a good sticky thread here.

i'd like to challenge all of you brainiacs to list all the debunks to the many wrong doctrines of the wt.

i want it to be to the point and devestatingly obvious and solid.

matt2414

Inform police of child molestation reports.

The Witnesses mistakenly use Deut. 17:6 and 1 Tim. 5:19 mention of having "two or three witnesses" to a sin to shield themselves from having to tell authorities of child molestation reports in the congregation. Deuteronomy no longer applies and 1 Timothy only applies to the congregation, not Caesar (secular law enforcement). Jesus said at Luke 20:25: “By all means, then, pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.”

25

Regular pioneers to be nominated by BOE

by yalbmert99 in

apparently the regular pioneers will be nominated by the body of elders, not bethel.

however, elders will have to send bethel a notification when a pioneer is nominated or removed..

matt2414

If the French nommer is similar to the Spanish nombrar, then it means appoint. So apparently, French bodies of elders appoint and remove regular pioneers now.

25

How to counter a stupid illustration in the Bible Teach Book

by NVR2L8 in

the bible teach book uses the example of a math teacher who is challenged by a student who disagrees on how to resolve a math problem.

the teacher then lets him attempt to prove his point knowing that he can only fail.

the object of the exercise is to show the rest of the students that the teacher is right - that there is only one way to resolve the math problem....this is likened to jehovah letting satan exercise his power over the world so that the entire universe can witness his failure and that only jehovah's ways lead to happiness.... instead of maths, what if the teacher taught chemistry and a student would want to prove that the teacher is wrong when he says that certains chemicals can't be mixed without causing an explosion that would wipeout the school...would any sane, responsible, loving teacher allow such a student to experiment and wipeout the whole class just so the teacher can prove he was right?

matt2414

The WT illustration is used to answer the question, "Why has God permitted suffering for so long?" But here's another flaw in the illustration: It only takes a few minutes to answer a math question, so why hasn't God ended suffering yet? The Witnesses can study with someone for just 6 months and convince them that God has the right to rule. So why has it taken more than 6,000 years to prove it to the angels? Shouldn't they be smarter than mere imperfect humans? Just how dumb are they?

Also, wouldn't the passing of so much time just prove the opposite about God? If the angels have an ounce of morality, wouldn't they be sickened by watching God stand by as he allows his children on earth to beat, rape and murder one another as he does nothing? Is God really helping his case or hurting it?

Or are the Witnesses really blaspheming the Almighty, making him look stupid and impotent, by their use of such an incredibly inappropriate illustration? Let's see know, the choices are: 1) Either the angels are slow and stupid 2) God is an evil father to allow his children to kill each other 3) or the Witnesses are blaspheming God with an incredibly inappropriate illustration that is demeaning to God? Hmmmm... which is the correct answer?

29

Watchtower views on Homosexuality

by ttm1988 in

afternoon all,.

a bit on my background.

i studied with the jw's a while ago in my teens, was acitve in meetings, and all the other things good witnesses do.

matt2414

mP: where is there any mention of homosexuality in Romans 1:26-27? I just read it again for the umpteenth time and I don't see it. As I mentioned above, gays and heterosexuals view this verse from two different perspectives. For example, gays know absolutely that homosexuality is not a choice. If sexuality is a choice for gays then it must be a choice for straights. But it isn't a choice for straights is it? Now it's true there are some who are bisexual and can go either way, and there are confused individuals who haven't determined what they are. But for genuine gays and straights there is no choice.

With that in mind, consider what Romans 1:26-27 says again. It says that women and men in that congregation ignored their natural sexuality and began having same-sex relations. In other words, Paul wasn't speaking about homosexuals, rather HETEROSEXUALS. Wow! Understanding this verse this way changes everything. But wait, what would cause heterosexuals to engage in same-sex orgies? It's right there in the context. Paul was writing about those who left the worship of God for the worship of idols. (see verses 23 and 25.) Same-sex acts in idol worship was not uncommon among some in the realm of the Roman Empire, which had swept up people of various backgrounds and Pagan persuasions as it extended its reach while conquering other lands.

This is the strongest "proof" some religionists have for their anti gay rhetoric, and yet when you realize it has nothing to do with homosexuals, nothing in the scriptures remain to uphold such hate and intolerance. Unlike some who say homosexuality is the biggest sin in the Bible, I see the worst sin as idolatry. What do you think? :)