Posts by nicolaou

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

nicolaou

Mikejw: They did not think this through and they should have run it past someone intelligent before announcing it.
But now the cat is out of the bag.

This 100% but with one big caveat - most JW's just don't care. It's more doctrinal unraveling that the boomers may well resent but it'll be a very comfortable fit for millennials, genZ's and the rest of the 'just be nice/don't judge anyone' generations.

Perhaps the GB actually DO know what they're doing. Shedding doctrine, service obligations, grooming requirements and fostering a much more casual approach to being a Jehovah's Witness.

Easy to stay, easy to pay.

47

The First Holocaust

by nicolaou in

please, please ignore all the scientific impossibilities here, that's not what this topic is about.. let's make the assumption as many christians do that the bible is historically accurate.

the noachian flood actually happened a little less than 4,500 years ago after which eight adults stepped off the ark to repopulate the planet.. that means that approximately 60 million lives had been snuffed out, a holocaust by anyone's estimation.

as if that isn't horrific enough just think about the babies, toddlers and young children god killed.. he drowned all of them, every single one.

nicolaou

I appreciate your input Kaleb, thank you. Maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough but I'm really not angry at god, how could I be if I don't believe he exists. My frustration is layered. I guess I'm annoyed with myself because for a large part of my life I did believe and have what I thought was a close relationship with him. Then to realise what an arsehole he really was, well it leaves a mark.

More than that though, I'm frustrated at those who put the blinkers on and point blank refuse to acknowledge the plain facts. Is it a fact that god at one time murdered every child in existence? No of course not, don't waste time having that argument with me. It IS a fact however that this global infanticide by god is recorded in the Bible and yet that counts for almost nothing in the minds of the faithful who wouldn't even call themselves Christian if it weren't for that same book.

Dismiss it as allegory if you like but it's still sitting there like the abusive Uncle everyone wants to avoid and hide from view.

3124

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

nicolaou

A big shout out to TonusOH who went to the trouble of transcribing the 'meltdown' video of our favourite crusty wanksock. I've added it to the lloydevans.info site at https://lloydevans.info/history/a-few-resources

The links are also now Search Engine Friendly and nicer to share.

Enjoy (well, you know what I mean)

47

The First Holocaust

by nicolaou in

please, please ignore all the scientific impossibilities here, that's not what this topic is about.. let's make the assumption as many christians do that the bible is historically accurate.

the noachian flood actually happened a little less than 4,500 years ago after which eight adults stepped off the ark to repopulate the planet.. that means that approximately 60 million lives had been snuffed out, a holocaust by anyone's estimation.

as if that isn't horrific enough just think about the babies, toddlers and young children god killed.. he drowned all of them, every single one.

nicolaou

Some miss the point through a genuine misunderstanding, some through a wilful misdirection.

Honestly, I pointed out that according to Genesis God killed every child on the planet but hey, never mind about that. The quibble about the size of earth's population at the time is far more important.

Again. Every child, every baby killed by god. Every single one. Slimboyfat's response?

I think (god) has some kind of plan that may be beyond my understanding. I trust that he knows better than me what he is doing.

Astonishing.

You'd think it couldn't get much worse but then you get to PetrW who, unless I've completely misunderstood, appears to be likening babies and children to Nazis who deserved their death in the choking floodwaters.

Slim', you did at least ask a sensible question;

what else should I conclude, that I a puny human have worked out the ethics of life and death and can teach the creator my conclusions?

Yes, precisely that. What makes you think that morality automatically attaches to power? Or conversely that being human and mortal necessarily means a weaker moral capacity? If god exists and created us why assume he is a moral being at all?

The Abrahamic god as recorded in the Bible is most certainly not.

47

The First Holocaust

by nicolaou in

please, please ignore all the scientific impossibilities here, that's not what this topic is about.. let's make the assumption as many christians do that the bible is historically accurate.

the noachian flood actually happened a little less than 4,500 years ago after which eight adults stepped off the ark to repopulate the planet.. that means that approximately 60 million lives had been snuffed out, a holocaust by anyone's estimation.

as if that isn't horrific enough just think about the babies, toddlers and young children god killed.. he drowned all of them, every single one.

nicolaou

It really doesn't matter whether the details are accurate or not, whether the story is borrowed or not or even whether it actually happened or not.

The point is that billions of people today claim at least nominal allegiance to this character and a good proportion of them worship and love him. THAT'S the reality that is so unsettling.

How is this healthy for humanity?

Perhaps I should start the Harold Shipman Fan Club? I'm sure he did a lot of good in Greater Manchester, well, you know, if you just ignore the mass killings.

47

The First Holocaust

by nicolaou in

please, please ignore all the scientific impossibilities here, that's not what this topic is about.. let's make the assumption as many christians do that the bible is historically accurate.

the noachian flood actually happened a little less than 4,500 years ago after which eight adults stepped off the ark to repopulate the planet.. that means that approximately 60 million lives had been snuffed out, a holocaust by anyone's estimation.

as if that isn't horrific enough just think about the babies, toddlers and young children god killed.. he drowned all of them, every single one.

nicolaou

too many unfounded presumptions in the OP

Such as?

47

The First Holocaust

by nicolaou in

please, please ignore all the scientific impossibilities here, that's not what this topic is about.. let's make the assumption as many christians do that the bible is historically accurate.

the noachian flood actually happened a little less than 4,500 years ago after which eight adults stepped off the ark to repopulate the planet.. that means that approximately 60 million lives had been snuffed out, a holocaust by anyone's estimation.

as if that isn't horrific enough just think about the babies, toddlers and young children god killed.. he drowned all of them, every single one.

nicolaou

Where do you get the figure of 60 million?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_millennium_BC

Seems to be a consensus around this figure for the time period. Would a smaller holocaust be more acceptable Slim'?

And no, modern atrocities by humans are no less acceptable, they are also irrelevant to the discussion. Focus.

47

The First Holocaust

by nicolaou in

please, please ignore all the scientific impossibilities here, that's not what this topic is about.. let's make the assumption as many christians do that the bible is historically accurate.

the noachian flood actually happened a little less than 4,500 years ago after which eight adults stepped off the ark to repopulate the planet.. that means that approximately 60 million lives had been snuffed out, a holocaust by anyone's estimation.

as if that isn't horrific enough just think about the babies, toddlers and young children god killed.. he drowned all of them, every single one.

nicolaou

Please, please ignore all the scientific impossibilities here, that's not what this topic is about.

Let's make the assumption as many Christians do that the Bible is historically accurate. The Noachian flood actually happened a little less than 4,500 years ago after which eight adults stepped off the ark to repopulate the planet.

That means that approximately 60 million lives had been snuffed out, a holocaust by anyone's estimation. As if that isn't horrific enough just think about the babies, toddlers and young children God killed.

He drowned all of them, every single one.

I know I keep banging on about the atrocities of god but I make no apologies for it. There is a sickness at the heart of all three Abrahamic religions that the faithful need to face up to.

I haven't actually asked any questions, I don't think I need to. If you are believer who supports this first holocaust and mass infanticide you already know the questions you should be asking yourself.

43

How do JWs know that less than 150,000 Christians existed before the 20th Century?

by Vanderhoven7 in

according to watchtower, only anointed christians existed between the first and 20th centuries.

the great crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.. how do they support this conclusion?

.

nicolaou

<pedantry> Fewer than not less than.</pedantry>

On the topic though;

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/14945/do-jws-still-believe-wt-version-144000

3124

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

nicolaou

It's melted.