Posts by ScenicViewer

42

Believers, your understanding on how old is the earth.

by jam in

lets forget about the creations of man, animals and.

light and darkness.

focus on the period when the earth.

ScenicViewer

@ Undercover who said,

Day 1 started, not with the actual creation of the earth and other heavenly bodies, but with the creataion of light. In other words JWs believe the earth was already here when the 7 Creative Days began, and those Creative Periods involved preparing the earth for plant, animal, and human life.

Too bad that doesn't jive with scripture:

Exodus 20:11

For in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day. That is why Jehovah blessed the sabbath day and proceeded to make it sacred.

That is a good point, and it throws a wrench into the Society's thinking. Here is one more reference from the same Book that says the same thing.

(Exodus 31:17)
“Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite, because in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and proceeded to refresh himself.”

And if that isn't bad enough, one of the Watchtower writers even dropped the ball when this was written,

(W 7-15-76 p427, par5)
“The Bible indicates that Jehovah created the heavens and the earth in six days, each 7,000 years in length.”

That remark goes completely against what the Society (usually) teaches, that the heavens and earth can be billions of years old! It's a little flub makes me chuckle.

42

Believers, your understanding on how old is the earth.

by jam in

lets forget about the creations of man, animals and.

light and darkness.

focus on the period when the earth.

ScenicViewer

Let me rephrase: Why cannot the JW writing department simply say "we do not know how old the earth is, nor do we know when man was created"?

I don't think the Society has set an age for the earth itself, but has acknowleged that it can be billions of year old as scientists say.

As for the age of mankind, the Society still adheres to the 6000 year age.

I suppose there are a number of reasons. Arrogance for one? A Know-it-all attitued for another? And as you say, Witnesses are obsessed with dates.

To admit a lack of understanding would be counter to the idea of being guided by holy spirit and having the truth. In other words it's to keep up appearances.

42

Believers, your understanding on how old is the earth.

by jam in

lets forget about the creations of man, animals and.

light and darkness.

focus on the period when the earth.

ScenicViewer

ScenicViewer, you forgot to mention that the official Witness chronology is that the first man and woman were created about 6,000 years ago.

I was referring to the creation of the first man and woman when I said "The Society figured mankind was 6000 years old as of 1975."

BTW I wasn't defending the Watchtower point of view, just explaining it, and in my 2nd post above I was showing how the notion of a 7000 year Day was a complete failure on Watchtower's part.

And yes, no matter how you look at Genesis there are problems if you try to take it all literally.

42

Believers, your understanding on how old is the earth.

by jam in

lets forget about the creations of man, animals and.

light and darkness.

focus on the period when the earth.

ScenicViewer

@James_woods, who asked

What I never understood was the strange JW teaching that the seven creative days were 7,000 years long each.

I believe the 7000 year day came as a result of reverse engineering. The Society figured mankind was 6000 years old as of 1975. If you add 1000 years for the Millineal reign of Christ you have a total of 7000 years, at which time mankind would be restored to perfection. They thought that sounded neat and complete, since 7000 is a Scripturally 'perfect' number.

But that failed. The last reference* to the 7000 year long Day was in 1987.

(W 1-1-87, p30)
Second, a study of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy and of our location in the stream of time strongly indicate that each of the creative days (Genesis, chapter 1) is 7,000 years long. It is understood that Christ’s reign of a thousand years will bring to a close God’s 7,000-year ‘rest day,’ the last ‘day’ of the creative week.

Since then the Society has been mum on the 7000 year Day.

(*Note to readers, if there is a reference to the 7000 year Day later than the 1-1-87 Watchtower I would like the quote to update my notes. Thanks!)

42

Believers, your understanding on how old is the earth.

by jam in

lets forget about the creations of man, animals and.

light and darkness.

focus on the period when the earth.

ScenicViewer

"...6000-8000 yrs. Or is this JWs view only for the age of the earth?"

It is a misunderstanding that JWs view the earth as 7000 years old, or thereabouts. Here are a few quotes from the literature showing the earth can be billions of years old according to Watchtower beliefs.

(Young People ASK 2 chap. 36 p. 301 How Can I Defend My Belief in God?)
The Bible says that the earth and the rest of the universe were in existence before the first creative day. Thus, the earth and the solar system may well be billions of years old.—Genesis 1:1.

(Awake 3-22-83 p13, Article: Evolution, Creation, or Creationism—Which Do You Believe?)
If geologists want to say that the earth is 4 billion years old, or astronomers want to make the universe 20 billion years old, the Bible student has no quarrel with them.

(Awake 11-22-81 p13)
Nevertheless, with proper attention to such possible pitfalls, acceptably reliable dates have been put on many old rock formations. Based on this method, the age of the oldest parts of the earth’s crust has been set at over four billion years.

7000 years used to be viewed by JWs as the length of each creative period (day), but that has been abandoned. Now the Society says this...

(Was Life Created, Brochure (2010) p24)
"How long, then, were the creative days? The Bible does not say; however, the wording of Genesis chapters 1 and 2 indicates that considerable lengths of time were involved."

So, the Creative Days are no longer viewed as being 7000 years long, but as an unspecified “considerable length of time.”

Furthur, JWs view Day 1 of creation a little differently from other groups. Day 1 started, not with the actual creation of the earth and other heavenly bodies, but with the creataion of light. In other words JWs believe the earth was already here when the 7 Creative Days began, and those Creative Periods involved preparing the earth for plant, animal, and human life.

Here is a chart from the Insight Book, p27, showing the Society's view of the Creative Days.

13

Does anyone want any old JW literature?Like reeeeally old...

by aquagirl in

jw
friends

selling my mums house.my dad was an elder for like 30 years.he had copies of every jw publication ever.multiple copies of some of this stuff.im ready to burn it in a bonfire,but it occurred to me that it might be valuable in like,research,orlaw suits or such?if anyone wants anything in particular,let me know,if i have it,its yours!just pay the shipping fee{el cheapo book rate}..i noticed every yearbook, and also the bound volumns of the wathctower and awake,all the way back to the middle of last century.let me know,if not,there will be a large bonfire in early september...hehhehheh.

ScenicViewer

Aquagirl, I sent you a PM.

10

JW Origins in New Brochures

by donuthole in

jw
friends

one of the things i noticed in the two new brochures for the public is how the couch the modern day origins of jehovah's witnesses.

"in the 1870's a small group of bible students began rediscovering long-lost bible truths.

" - good news from god.

ScenicViewer

donuthole said

"There is no mention of Charles Russell."

The less that is mentioned, the less it can be put to the test. An internet user can easily google C.T. Russell and find a lot of negative information. Could this be the reason his name is left out?

10

JW Origins in New Brochures

by donuthole in

jw
friends

one of the things i noticed in the two new brochures for the public is how the couch the modern day origins of jehovah's witnesses.

"in the 1870's a small group of bible students began rediscovering long-lost bible truths.

" - good news from god.

ScenicViewer

@ reslight2 who said,

In 1904, ten years before 1914, Russell adopted this latter view, which, in effect, was a reversal of his earlier view that the time of trouble was to end in 1914.

Did Russell publish his new view in the Watchtower, explaining that 1914 was the beginning of the time of trouble? Do you have the reference?

(I could follow that link, but I'm lazy right now. If you have the ref, it would be much easier! At any rate, the link is bookmarked for later reading.)

Thanks!

11

You can take your three day quickbuild and shove it...

by Aaron Eldridge in

jw
friends

there is a christian organisation that builds churches in one day, oddly enough they are called church in a day.

so much for the quickbuild being used as proof of god's divine order working through the organisation.. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/29/faithful-volunteers-build-church-in-one-day-in-iowa/.

ScenicViewer

The world record for building a house is less than 3 hours!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2HqW-AAb20

In this video, firefighters in Tuscon, Az build a house in 24 hours. Twenty-four hour house building projects are relatively common. No holy spirit required.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fekL2uwYQK4

41

Clueless Attempt at Information Control In New Brochure

by LostGeneration in

on page 28 of the "who are doing the watchtower's will today" brochure they outline their website, and how great and grand it is.

then down in the lower right corner they print this:.

a note of caution:.

ScenicViewer

Some Internet sites have been set up by opposers to spread false information about our organization.

This is the kind of thing that can backfire quickly. The first time a reader hits a site with documented information about Watchtower (not information that is made up, unsupported, or false) and that information is negative to Watchtower's reputation, the reader has his eyes opened a little for the first time.

From there it is a relatively quick trip to asking self, 'Who is really publishing false information?' It doesn't take long to realize that the Society has plenty to hide, and that it's efforts to keep people from getting answers are nothing but self-serving.