Posts by ScenicViewer

141

THANK YOU Steven Unthank

by cedars in

ohiocowboy has just posted this information on the two other threads dealing with the sudden collapse of the unthank cases.. i don't know steven unthank, but i just want to thank him from the bottom of my heart for having the courage against overwhelming odds to try and bring the watch tower society to justice over their deplorable neglect when it comes to protecting children from abuse and molestation.. steven is a man of justice and integrity who i deeply admire.

his actions will never be forgotten, and i only hope he can find it within himself to continue his work in whatever avenue may become available in the future.. they have won this battle, but they can never win the war.. .

cedars.

ScenicViewer

james_woods asked,

Isn't it also true that the witnesses backed down and had their elders register as people working with children as per the Australian law?

You are right about that. As I recall from a previous court update, when the judge asked Watchtower's attorney why they hadn't complied, she replied that "It's all been sorted out now."

Just prior to that court appearance a letter was sent to congregations telling elders to comply with the WWC Act.

In this respect Steven Unthank achieved a great victory, because without his efforts Watchtower would still be in non-compliance.

17

Why enact legislation with penalties for non compliance,then do nothing when an org.refuses to comply ??

by smiddy in

jw
friends

the mind boggles: the australian government / victorian government is held up to ridicule by people all over the world for failing to prosecute the wtb&ts, eg.jehovahs witnesses, for refusing to obtain working with children checks over a period of three years,in spite of the various agencies offering to give advice and assistance over that period of time to obtain one.

they arrogantly refused any such help.

today we learn that the dept.of prosecutions has taken over the case with the intent to dismiss this case because it`s" not in the public interest.

ScenicViewer

Smiddy asked,

"Why enact legislation with penalties for non compliance,then do nothing when an org.refuses to comply?

"

I think this is the major question of the day. People who are aware of this case are wondering about the lack of logic, the lack of common sense, and the lack of child protective law in the law.

17

Crisis of Conscience now available at Amazon. Sold by Cynthia Franz.

by ScenicViewer in

this book has been out of print for some time, causing used copies to sell for $100 and more.

the price of these new ones is much more reasonable.. hard cover, $30 here.. soft cover, $26 here.. shipping is free, and ray franz' widow, cynthia, is the seller..

ScenicViewer

It appears the paper back edition has sold out for now, hopefully there will be more later.

There are plenty of hard cover copies still in stock.

47

Can anyone prove that birthday celebrations are forbidden by God?

by FaithfulBrother in

i know that there is no mention of any birthday celebrations in the bible besides the two which were celebrated by non-believers.

and it just so happened that on each of these events, someone died (one non-believer and one believer).

but does it mean that just because the bible mentions these two events, that all birthday celebrations are forbidden?

ScenicViewer

FaithfulBrother asked,

does it mean that just because the Bible mentions these two events, that all birthday celebrations are forbidden?

You make a good point about lots of things, like shaving, having a pagan connection. Almost everything has a pagan connection at some point in history. Just because the 2 b'days in the Bible had a pagan connection is a pretty thin reason to ban all b'day celebrations. After all, it was the murder that was the offensive act in both of those examples, and murder is wrong whether or not it's on someone's birthday. To say that b'days are wrong based on nothing more than those 2 Bible examples is a making a giant leap that is unwarranted.

A few pagan based practices that JWs accept are,

-- Giving flowers at a funeral

-- Wearing wedding rings

-- Feeding cake at a wedding

-- Having a pinjata at a party

-- Wearing pants (Billy the Ex-Bethelite has a funny presentation on this site about pants.)

-- Owning dogs (No positive remarks made about dogs in the Bible)

-- And now, shaving

Interestingly, Watchtower has a double standard when it comes to pagan based observances. In some instances they are condemned, but in other instances they are allowed using this reasoning...

(Awake 9-22-03 p23, 24)
“A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues.”

Yet Watchtower turns b'day celebrations into a very big issue, even though they are perfectly acceptable today, and have no meaning other than to commemorate the day of the birth of a child, which is as harmless as observing the day of a wedding anniversary.

7

The Surprising Faith Of 8 American Presidents... # 6 is interesting!

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/darrin-grinder/the-presidents-and-their-_b_1283210.html.

6. dwight d. eisenhower.

eisenhower may have been instrumental in bringing "under god" to the pledge of allegiance and making "in god we trust" the national motto, but he was reared in a religious tradition that does not allow its adherents to take oaths of office or to recite the pledge of allegiance--the jehovah's witnesses (a religion/denomination born in the united states, as was mormonism).

ScenicViewer

Eisenhower became the only president to be baptized and join a church during his presidency--the Presbyterian church in this instance.

Was he previously baptised as a Bible Student? If so, he would be an apostate in Watchtower's eyes because of joining the Presbyterian church, at least by today's Watchtower standards. However the Bible Students were much more lenient in their view of other religious groups. But perhaps he was never baptised into Watchtower to begin with.

29

Reform on blood issue?!?!

by Wishididntknow in

not sure of the validity of this but i thought i would put out there.... danny hazard seems like a loose cannon...but...your thoughts?.

associated jehovah's witnesses for reform on blood are announcing the beginning of the end of the jehovah's witness blood doctrine.. since 2000 the watchtower society was forced to change their semantics on how they handle punishing its members for taking blood transfusions to save their lives.the european court of human rights negotiated this change when the country of bulgaria refused to acknowledge the watchtower society as a religion, due to the fact that the watchtower punished its members for accepting needed medical procedures to save their own, or their children's lives with blood transfusions.. but ajwrb has been tracking the development of these changes, and we have searched for any actual occurrences of a jw (who wants to stay a jw) getting disassociated for taking a blood transfusion.we have not found a one.

in the past we have not been able to get watchtower service dept.

ScenicViewer

@ Dogpatch,

Absolutely you can use it. I hope it does some good.

Best Wises with the whole blood issue, and AJWRB.org.

29

Reform on blood issue?!?!

by Wishididntknow in

not sure of the validity of this but i thought i would put out there.... danny hazard seems like a loose cannon...but...your thoughts?.

associated jehovah's witnesses for reform on blood are announcing the beginning of the end of the jehovah's witness blood doctrine.. since 2000 the watchtower society was forced to change their semantics on how they handle punishing its members for taking blood transfusions to save their lives.the european court of human rights negotiated this change when the country of bulgaria refused to acknowledge the watchtower society as a religion, due to the fact that the watchtower punished its members for accepting needed medical procedures to save their own, or their children's lives with blood transfusions.. but ajwrb has been tracking the development of these changes, and we have searched for any actual occurrences of a jw (who wants to stay a jw) getting disassociated for taking a blood transfusion.we have not found a one.

in the past we have not been able to get watchtower service dept.

ScenicViewer

No Room For George said,

"I can't help but think that the WT would leave itself open to lawsuits."

Yes they would, but consider this...

Who would sue if the ban on blood was lifted? Wouldn't it be relatives of someone who died because they refused blood? If the ban on blood was lifted quickly survivors of the deceased would say, 'You mean our mother/father/son/daughger didn't have to die after all? He/she followed your policy and lost his life thinking it was the truth, and now you have taken it back? We are taking action against you for loss of life!' No doubt when attorneys figured out how to win such cases the law suits would fly against Watchtower.

How to avoid such suits? Wait until all those who could possibly bring suit have passed on. But that will take decades, so what does Watchtower do in the meantime? Keep the blood policy on the books, but do not DF or DA for it.

As Refriedtruth said, the Sociey can mealy mouth it's way through this, providing plenty of loopholes, giving counsel privately that isn't in print, so that no one has to die because of not receiving blood in the coming years. Then, decades down the road when the coast is clear - meaning there is no longer a threat of suits from survivors - quietly drop the whole matter. Maybe the Society will even claim it had been a conscience matter all along and that 'some back in those days misunderstood' (that's certainly a method that Watchtower has used before).

This would be a long process, but it seems the Society's blood policy is in a state of transition now, and has been since major changes took place in 2000.

These are only my thoughts, but a scenario like this would provide a way out from under the organization's horrible blood policy eventually, and avoid most of the law suits.

17

Crisis of Conscience now available at Amazon. Sold by Cynthia Franz.

by ScenicViewer in

this book has been out of print for some time, causing used copies to sell for $100 and more.

the price of these new ones is much more reasonable.. hard cover, $30 here.. soft cover, $26 here.. shipping is free, and ray franz' widow, cynthia, is the seller..

ScenicViewer

Some may prefer a PDF download version of Crisis of Conscience.

It's available here for $7.95. This is the Commentary Press site, which was Ray's site, and I believe Cynthia will benefit from purchases made here.

17

Crisis of Conscience now available at Amazon. Sold by Cynthia Franz.

by ScenicViewer in

this book has been out of print for some time, causing used copies to sell for $100 and more.

the price of these new ones is much more reasonable.. hard cover, $30 here.. soft cover, $26 here.. shipping is free, and ray franz' widow, cynthia, is the seller..

ScenicViewer

This book has been out of print for some time, causing used copies to sell for $100 and more. The price of these new ones is much more reasonable.

Hard cover, $30 here.

Soft cover, $26 here.

Shipping is free, and Ray Franz' widow, Cynthia, is the seller.

51

Bloodplates... Can it Really be Justified?

by mrbunyrabit in

i was thinking about something.. getting a blood transfution.. thats wrong right?

oky and theres allot of scriptures supporting that.. so is giving blood at a bloodbank allowed for witnesses?

no, its not allowed.... oky so heres my question.... witnesses are allowed to use blood plates... where does those blood plates come from?.

ScenicViewer

Cirkeline said,

"They have to make blood transfutions legal veeery slow and over a long time to prevent too many legal cases."

I believe you are right about that. The Society seems to be in a state of transition over the blood issue. It's already ok to take many blood components that were banned in the past, and in 60 or 70 years the whole blood issue will likely be dead, just like the ban on vaccination. Stemming the flow of lawsuits is probably the reason for taking small, incremental steps forward.

Watchtower has been so clever at controling information that most Witnesses are not aware of the Society's past views on medical issues. These days though, with the proliferation of the internet and electronic media, making information readily available, the organization will have a much tougher time controlling what people know. The Society's ban on blood transfusion will not be forgotten as easily as other issues from the past.