Posts by scotoma

149

If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

scotoma

Ag:

This is no different than a rock which responds to outside forces and stores information about them (after all, scientists are able to date rocks based upon things like the effect of the planet's magnetic inversions and the heat they've been subjected to).

Rocks react - For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Organisms - Respond

History of rocks are written by humans.

You are making a very big mistake. Just because two things might be the same in some ways they are not necessarily the same in all ways.

Normally this analogical problem needs to be pointed out because two things are often similar in MANY ways. In your case the only similarity between a rock and an organism is they are both material. That is not sufficient basis for asserting that SINCE rocks and organisms are both material THEREFORE rocks possess mental characteristics. If rocks were placed on the "mind" continuum they would represent zero which is complete opposite. Anything that is zero doesn't belong on the continuum.

I believe you have confused rocks with brains. You do have a brain in your skull right? Or is it just one big chunk of bone?

This isn't meant as an insult. I wouldn't be having this discussion with a inorganic chucnk of rock. This is reducing your line of reason to the absurd.

Thinking is not magical. It is a material process and depends on material. However it is of a different order because it processes information.

Tie a knot in a rope. By tying the knot you have informed the rope. Is the knot the same as the rope? Now slowly slide the knot along the rope. Notice that the knot maintains its structure even though different sections of rope are used. Eventually, the knot reaches the end of the rope and it disappears. That's the death of the knot. The rope remains. Does the rope weigh less with the knot gone? The knot was information. The brain manages huge amounts of information - beyond a simple knot. Information is not material.

25

WT edit to Wiki

by Poztate in

jw
friends

the gang in brooklyn must be very busy.

the wt ranks # 29 of all pages on wiki for editing.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-100-most-edited-wikipedia-articles/.

scotoma

I was just wondering about that.

149

If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

scotoma

Apog:

Plants move. = Tropism

The startle reflex is mediated by the nervous system. Rocks don't have nervous systems. You don't startle rocks. The whole purpose behind the startle reflex is to avoid coming in contact with something dangerous.

The many arrangements we each have with our personal parasites doesn't alter the identity of the organism as a whole. You can kill the yeast infection and the organism continues. If you extract the gold from the quartz you don't have the same rock anymore.

The problem with your summary of nervous system activity is that rocks simply don't have nervous systems. It doesn't explain anything.

That's the whole point. It's not a difference in degree but a difference in kind.

You might say that rocks have a relationship with everything in the universe, but those relationships don't "mean" anything to the rock. Rock A might be 3 cm from rock B. Who cares? Yes - WHO cares and a WHO is an organism in contrast to a rock that is merely a WHAT.

Meaning, also called value, requires a living organism.

149

If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

scotoma

Are some of you really ignorant of the differences between living things and non-living things?

Non-living things continue moving in the same direction unless some exterior force acts on it.

Living organisms are sensitive to their nutritional needs and their need to avoid danger.

Living things change directions based on their needs.

Non-living things don't have needs.

If you break a rock in two that rock ceases to exist and you have two rocks with similar composition but separate trajectories.

Living things can be cut in pieces and it still has its cellular identity.

Living things can choose the direction in which it moves. Rocks can't choose direction. If a rock is impacted by another rock it will either move in the opposite direction of the impact force or it will break apart and no longer exist.

Living organsims maintain their identity over time even though the materials that it is made of come and go.

You also can't speak about a brain in a bottle. That is pure fiction - not even science fiction. Brains need to be viewed as having a body connected to it. That body has needs and the brain, along with muscle, sense organs, and guts each serve their part in a functioning organism.

Organisms differ from rocks in kind not degree.

149

If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

scotoma

We tend to be brain worshipers. The brain is another organ of the body. The brain is embedded in an organism.

Consciousness requires content. You are not just conscious - you are conscious of some THING.

There are also other tissues that act like a nervous system complete with an array of neurotransmitters. The enteric or "gut" brain.

These facts are the reason it is highly unlikely that scientists will be able to duplicate some aspects of human thinking.

The only minds we know of are embedded in flesh.

Some good books about the mind.

Mind and Nature an Necessary Unity - Gregory Bateson

The Mechanism of Mind Edward Debono

The Tree of Life Humberto Maturana and Francisco Varela

I want to add something else. The brain is NOT creative. The brain is a reactor. It is the interplay between the brain and its environment that is creative. The brains main purpose is to manage the negative. The brain keeps us in a rut. It wants to quickly form a habit circuit. The quicker we habituate the safer we tend to be. Creativity is an emergent phenomenon - a by product of pattern formation. A good pattern reaches our consciousness because it incorporates a large amount of environmental inputs (iinformation) in a sudden gestalt formation. We experience that as an Aha! moment. Comedians are especially skilled (gifted) at exploiting this.

149

If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

scotoma

Seraphim,

The quickest way to affect consciousness is to physically destroy various parts of the brain.

A hole in the brain is a hole in the soul.

149

If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

scotoma

Consciousness can be altered with scalpels, hammers, halucinogens, etc.

14

One way could be showing how absurd their concept is when trying to answer the question, Blondie.

by jam in

jw
friends

scotoma

That's not how it works...

...that's not how it works at all.

(Reference to a commercial about an old woman trying to materialize face book)

12

DESTROYED

by compound complex in

jw
friends

what is this wall like brick and mortar that separates.

your proud heart from mine contrite and broken?.

at one time -- i recall so very well -- your soul.

scotoma

Poets have a way to frame everything in the language of maximum glow or glum.

I'm not a poet so I invest as little as possible in words.

I simply say "tough shit" at some point and it all goes away.

No need to even get drunk.

But, I am grateful

there are people

who know how to use language so well.

Perhaps that's how they get to the "tough shit" stage.

57

the green mile?

by sparrowdown in

jw
friends

just wondering.. do you agree/disagree with capital punishment?.

are there any circumstances that would justify it?.

or is taking any human life unacceptable, regardless of the crime?.

scotoma

If you are for capitol punishment YOU are casting your lot with the likes of JW's.

Capitol punishment is anti-male. Three times as many males committ violent crimes as females.

There should be no doubt that murder has a genetic component to it. You don't have to look for an imbalance in the brain. It is linked in a large way to those two organs hanging between a man's legs.

Give men a choice. :SNIP: + 20 years to think about it. Or life in prison.

Women who kill their children? Schizo. They need drugs and better drugs.