Posts by scotoma

10

Awake October 8 1972 False Alarm About "Peace and Security"

by scotoma in

jw
friends

the watchtower study yesterday made it clear that the cry of peace and security has not occurred yet.. what they don't mention is their false alarm that they falsely pointed to events in 1972 as the cry of peace and security.

that was 42 years ago.. they did this with a special awake in october of 1972. they devoted the full issue to the subject.

it rivals the infamous "is it later than you think" special awake of october 8 1968 in its grandiose predictions.. the october 8 issue of awake 1972 is must reading in view of the latest discussion of peace and security.. here are a few exerpts with the grandiose statements in red.

scotoma

QUIT:

Interesting that you brought that book up. Actually there were two books with this theme. The first one "Peace and Security" came out in 1973 on the heels of their 1972 presumption that the world was on the verge of declaring peace and security. In fact they refer to what they felt was significant to them:

"World leaders today are confidently foretelling the entry of a ‘new era’ in world history. They say that the threat of global war and nuclear destruction is past. Why? Because, they declare, a dramatic change in relations between the world’s great powers is bringing in a time of peace and security such as the world has never seen. In January of 1973 a prominent statesman said: “We have made a breakthrough toward creating in the world what the world has not known before—a structure of peace that can last, not merely for our time, but for generations to come.” Paragraph 3 Chapter 1

No Peace. No sudden destruction. Then 13 years later they came out with almost the same book only this one they called TRUE Peace and Security. I suppose this is contrast to the earlier book which turned out to actually be FALSE Peace and Security.This version replaced the old anouncement of peace and security with the latest flavor in the same paragraph 3 Chapter 1.

"An interesting Bible prophecy stated that the time would come when world leaders would actually proclaim “peace and security!” In fact, when the United Nations declared 1986 an “International Year of Peace” it asked that organizations everywhere make a special effort from that year on to promote the goal of “peace, international security and cooperation.”

That declaration wasn't followed by destruction and we are now 27 years from that dud of a prediction.

All of this calls into question how Holy Spirit is supposed to function. If the organization is directed by "Holy Spirit" why do imperfect men always overide that direction by jumping the gun?

They would apologetically say "Some, including writers of Watchtower publications, made mistakes".

If there really were some predicted peace and security would the Watchtower get it right? Or at this point have they used up all their bullets?

"For truly, if the trumpet sounds an indistinct call*, who will get ready for battle?"

*indistinct: not clear or sharply defined. synonyms: blurred, out of focus, fuzzy, hazy misty, foggy, cloudy, shadow, dim , nebulous

They could use a little better light.

10

Awake October 8 1972 False Alarm About "Peace and Security"

by scotoma in

jw
friends

the watchtower study yesterday made it clear that the cry of peace and security has not occurred yet.. what they don't mention is their false alarm that they falsely pointed to events in 1972 as the cry of peace and security.

that was 42 years ago.. they did this with a special awake in october of 1972. they devoted the full issue to the subject.

it rivals the infamous "is it later than you think" special awake of october 8 1968 in its grandiose predictions.. the october 8 issue of awake 1972 is must reading in view of the latest discussion of peace and security.. here are a few exerpts with the grandiose statements in red.

scotoma

I just noticed my previous post was post 666.

It just shows how conspiracy theories and intrigue can take on a life of its own.

My prediction for the record is that nothing is going to happen.

Just want to freak out a few omen-eers.

Or maybe I'm a time traveler leaving an internet hint.

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/01/10/time-travel-on-internet-twitter/

10

Awake October 8 1972 False Alarm About "Peace and Security"

by scotoma in

jw
friends

the watchtower study yesterday made it clear that the cry of peace and security has not occurred yet.. what they don't mention is their false alarm that they falsely pointed to events in 1972 as the cry of peace and security.

that was 42 years ago.. they did this with a special awake in october of 1972. they devoted the full issue to the subject.

it rivals the infamous "is it later than you think" special awake of october 8 1968 in its grandiose predictions.. the october 8 issue of awake 1972 is must reading in view of the latest discussion of peace and security.. here are a few exerpts with the grandiose statements in red.

scotoma

Consider this:

Peace in Israel has been an issue since the UN pushed the Palestinians out of the way to make room for Israel. It is ironic that an organization meant to end war set the stage for one of the most chronic cases of endless conflict with international consequences.

It now looks like a comprehensive peace between Israel and Palestine will be accomplished. It has a high priority. Peace will be achieved because Israels main benefactor - the United States can't afford Israel anymore especially the consequences and distraction of international terrorism. The United States is entering a period where they don't need a base of operations to protect the oil in the middle east. There is no longer a benefit for the costs. Europe still needs mid-east oil so they would also like the conflict there to end.

The stated goal of the negotiators is to achieve their goal in April of this year.

So, let's say they obtain a peace agreement of historical significance in Israel in the month of April.

Maybe in time to precede the memorial on April 14

There is an eclipse of the moon on memorial this year. That will be a blood moon which historically is associated with war. Memorial of 2015 will be another blood moon.

Add this into the picture. Titus began his final assault on Jerusalem on Passover 70 Ad. The passover in 70 AD was also on April 14 and there was an eclipse of the moon on that occasion.

Kind of creepy.

10

Awake October 8 1972 False Alarm About "Peace and Security"

by scotoma in

jw
friends

the watchtower study yesterday made it clear that the cry of peace and security has not occurred yet.. what they don't mention is their false alarm that they falsely pointed to events in 1972 as the cry of peace and security.

that was 42 years ago.. they did this with a special awake in october of 1972. they devoted the full issue to the subject.

it rivals the infamous "is it later than you think" special awake of october 8 1968 in its grandiose predictions.. the october 8 issue of awake 1972 is must reading in view of the latest discussion of peace and security.. here are a few exerpts with the grandiose statements in red.

scotoma

The Watchtower study yesterday made it clear that the cry of Peace and Security has not occurred yet.

What they don't mention is their false alarm that they falsely pointed to events in 1972 as the cry of Peace and Security. That was 42 years ago.

They did this with a special Awake in October of 1972. They devoted the full issue to the subject. It rivals the infamous "Is It Later Than You Think" special Awake of October 8 1968 in its grandiose predictions.

The October 8 issue of Awake 1972 is must reading in view of the latest discussion of peace and security.

Here are a few exerpts with the grandiose statements in Red. It makes you wonder if they will ever have the nerve again to try to identify the "Peace and Security" declaration.

Why Hopes Grow for a “Generation of Peace”

STRANGE events are taking place in our time. And their true significance goes much deeper
than their surface appearance.

No doubt you are aware of the surprising series of world changes that have happened in the short
span of less than a year.

Something New Developing?

The dramatic moves by the United States, China and the Soviet Union toward what the French
call rapprochement (a coming together in cordial relations) have stirred worldwide comment.
Voices are heard in many nations expressing hope that something new may indeed be developing
on a world scale.

But why view these moves toward ensuring international peace and security as anything different
from past efforts? What is unusual?

So where does the current peace effort differ from these?

Where the Difference Lies

First, unlike the League and the U.N., this peace drive has not come in the heat of global conflict
nor in the immediate aftermath of global war, with the horrors of such slaughter fresh in mind as
a moving force. This peace move is being pushed in a time of relative peace to ‘defuse’ the
potentially explosive circumstances that could trigger all-out nuclear war.

This means, too, that it is not a case of victorious nations imposing their own peace arrangement
on defeated and weakened foes unable to offer effective opposition. This, in fact, is what has
caused many to express amazement over the recent developments.

There is, however, an even more distinctive factor about these peace movements, one with a
significance few realize. What is this largely unnoticed but significant factor?

It has to do with religion.

A Surprising Reversal

THE U.S. overtures to Peking and Moscow were remarkable in themselves. But an even more
astonishing change had already preceded this. What?

Think back just a decade or two in the past. Do you remember how, throughout the Western
world, Communism was regularly and violently being condemned as “godless, atheistic
Bolshevism”?

Who were the chief sources of this denunciation? It was the churches of Christendom,
particularly those of the West. Yet a surprising reversal has taken place. To appreciate how big
the change has been, consider this:

Religious “Cold War” Against Communism

In their “Declaration of Principles” both countries agreed that “differences in ideology and in the
social systems [which, of course, includes religious systems and attitudes] . . . are not obstacles to
the bilateral development of normal relations.”

What seemed to be mountainous barriers appear to have been hurdled. Attention now focuses on
a “European Security Conference,” agreed upon by the world powers for 1973. And the French
newspaper Le Monde (June 25-26, 1972) quotes Monsignor Casaroli, head of Vatican
diplomacy, as saying that “the Vatican proposes to participate” and is already recommending
what the agenda should embrace, including a balanced reduction of the NATO and Warsaw Pact
armed forces.

What will the coming months bring? Is what we have seen been just ‘run-of-the-mill’ political
maneuvering, mere ‘window dressing,’ or is something big in the making? There is reason to
believe the latter is the case.

Why Such a Peace Effort Now?

NINETEEN hundred years ago Bible prophecy foretold a time when men would be proclaiming,
“Peace and security!” That prophecy seems to be rapidly nearing its fulfillment.

The reasons, then, why men should make an all-out effort for world peace and security are many
and very powerful. There is evidence that they will bring matters to a point soon where the cry of
“Peace and security” becomes the slogan of the day!

But the big question is: Will it last?

We can know the answer to that question, now.

6

Birthday celebrations and Jeptha's daughter

by Skinnedsheep in

jw
friends

did you realize that jeptha's daughter was actually burnt at an altar as a burnt offering?

check judges 11 in some other translations for the clearer language.

jehovah was cool with that since jeptha was fulfilling his vow.

scotoma

Shame on Jehovah for including such an ambiguous story that couldn't be accepted at face value but puts his servants in the position to be groveling apologists.

This is called special pleading. It is the failure to apply rules to a situation that is of special personal interest without giving sufficient to support the exception.

Some special pleaders would say Jehovah put this in the Bible to test out his subjects willingness to defend him.

52

Who is easier to indoctrinate, men or women?

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

from purely anecdotal evidence, i believe women are more indoctrinated on average.

i can openly disagree with the governing body with men and it results in a discussion however, most women i've talked to have immediately shut me down by ending the conversation.

the only person currently shunning me is a woman.

scotoma

It depends on what is being sold. A lot of men join crazy religious groups because a woman hooked them. Men are suckers. Sex sells. Even religion.

Biologically, women in general are more dependent than men. YES! It is biological and not just the way they are raised. Notice I didn't say all women. There are a small minority of women who will scrap with men and they will work on oil rigs, join the military, become prison guards, truck drivers etc.

This dependent frame only means that women will fill the seats at churches. And as jgnat said they value the social network. Dependency searches for the security provided by a network of friends and family.

Alcoholic men will grab onto anything to be able to conquer their monkey. I have seen brilliant men with scientific background who are religious because they needed a "higher power" to make AA work for them.

So basically it depends on how crapped up your life is.

22

"Peace and Security"!!!! JW.ORGs best and last chance for fulfilment.

by scotoma in

jw
friends

in the old revelation book there was a section on the cry "peace and security.. "14 in recent years, politicians have used the phrase peace and security to describe various.

human schemes.

or was paul referring only to a specific event of such dramatic proportions.

scotoma

This point was raised and I would like to address it:

Growing up a JW I have heard two polar viewpoints on the statement of peace and security.

The cry of peace and security means a literal cry of "why is there no peace and security?" Everything is so bad!

or...

The cry of peace and security means a cry of excitement "Yippee! We finally have peace and security"

So the JWs have this statement covered. No matter what we have fulfillment. Therefore the end is right around the corner. But we already knew that.

The context of the statement in vs 3 of 1Thess 5:3 is contrasted with the "sudden destruction" that catches people by surprise. This rules out "yearning for peace and security". It suggests a complacency fueled by some significant accomplishment. There have been cycles of war and peace. Peace follows war and war follows peace like day and night. So, a declaration of "peace and security" would have to be something that creates extraordinary optimism.

The Israeli/Palestinian conflict was a direct result of UN action and has been a perrenial problem for that organization from its inception. This makes it the centerpiece of UN peace keeping efforts. If the Israeli's and Palestinians could achieve peace that would mean any two countries could do the same. When and if that happens there will be endless rounds of toasts and congratulations and awards of medals of honor.

Could the Watchtower ignore that? Of course the declaration of peace and security doesn't signal any action to be taken by Christians. However if it were followed by some catastrophic event for example a nuclear terrorist attack then it would be time to discern if such a catastrophic event is the "disgusting thing standing where it shouldn't" and signal that it's time to flee. There is a lot of room for hasty judgement.

70

2014 YB Up. Partakers 13,204

by LostGeneration in

jw
friends

that is all.

link.

scotoma

Paragraph 19 of the Revelation book Chapter 20

19 Do statistics support this conclusion? Yes, they do. In 1938, worldwide, 59,047 Witnesses of Jehovah shared in the ministry. Of these, 36,732 partook of the emblems at the annual celebration of the Memorial of Jesus’ death, thus indicating that they had a heavenly calling. In the years since then, the number of these partakers has progressively decreased, principally because faithful Witnesses of Jehovah finished their earthly life course in death. In 2005 only 8,524 partook of the Memorial emblems—0.05 percent of the 16,390,116 attending that global observance.

18, 19. (a) What hope was stressed by the John class during the 1920’s and 1930’s, but who responded to the message in increasing numbers? (b) The identification of the great crowd in 1935 indicated what with regard to the 144,000? (c) What do Memorial statistics reveal?

22

"Peace and Security"!!!! JW.ORGs best and last chance for fulfilment.

by scotoma in

jw
friends

in the old revelation book there was a section on the cry "peace and security.. "14 in recent years, politicians have used the phrase peace and security to describe various.

human schemes.

or was paul referring only to a specific event of such dramatic proportions.

scotoma

Sooner or later reality impinges on a prediction. That's what happened when the people alive in 1914 died off. There followed a flurry of attempts to explain "Wha' Happen?"

Rutheford was confronted with the obvious fact that including the annointed of the 2000 years following the Christian foundation at Pentecost 33 there were most likely more than 144,000 annointed that lived and died. So, he made that number literal and created a new class "the great crowd".

When 1914 didn't produce the return of Christ so that every eye could see him they made the return invisible.

The Blood Transfusion detour can't be changed without a major-major schism.

The problem with a Israeli/Palestine peace agreement is that it would be too significant for them to ignore. In the world of diplomacy the conflict in the middle east has dominated policy and it has been the most sought after of peace achievements. It is the dominant cause of terror in the Western World. It involves Christians, Jews, and Muslims because Jerusalem is the place where Abraham offered up Isaac and Solomon built the temple. It is the place where Muhammed ascended to heaven and where Jesus was crucified. There is no other place on earth that is held in such reverence.

It is the intersection of the cultures of 4 billion people which is over half the population of the earth.

Every president from Eisenhower until now tried to get a comprehensive peace in that conflict. All they have been able to achieve is a little "piece" here and a little "piece" there - but NO PEACE.

Don't doubt for a moment that Obama is pushing for this. As soon as Kerry achieves it Obama will of course step in and take all of the credit. If Kerry fails - Obama is at a safe distance from the effort so he can avoid a perception of failure.

How could the Watchtower avoid latching onto such a declaration. They would have to incorporate it into their scheme. Maybe that will be their undoing.

22

"Peace and Security"!!!! JW.ORGs best and last chance for fulfilment.

by scotoma in

jw
friends

in the old revelation book there was a section on the cry "peace and security.. "14 in recent years, politicians have used the phrase peace and security to describe various.

human schemes.

or was paul referring only to a specific event of such dramatic proportions.

scotoma

Problemaddict:

President Obama and Bill Clinton's Aborted Golf Outing and Their Super-Awkward Relationship

Even after Mr. Obama named Mrs. Clinton as secretary of state, seemingly binding the wounds from their hard-fought 2008 primary campaign, the book says, he still could barely endure spending much time with the often-exhausting Bill Clinton. Mr. Obama rarely contacted his Democratic predecessor in the first years after taking office, but after the midterm losses for his party, the incumbent and his inner circle realized that they needed the still-popular Mr. Clinton.

When the two of them golfed together in September 2011, an effort aides hoped would bring them closer, they did not even finish 18 holes. Mr. Obama succinctly expressed his view of Mr. Clinton to an aide after coming off the course at Andrews Air Force Base. “Obama grimaced and replied, ‘I like him … in doses,' ” the authors write.

Double Down: Game Change 2012

by Mark Halperin (Author) , John Heilemann (Author)