My point being, it is nearly impossible to prove/disprove god using SOLID evidnence, the way I see it. No one can prove "existance" without being subjective, if we define existence as the state of being perceptible. That leaves us with only subjective accounts, which are always mere speculations, shaped by our expectations. What you interpret as prayer fulfillment, I will likely chalk up to good coincidence.
Pika_Chu
JoinedPosts by Pika_Chu
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176
For non-believers: What evidence would it take for you to believe in 'god'?
by jay88 init all comes down to evidence (but funny how we tend not to accept the evidence that indicates that what be actually believe to be true might be wrong).. this is a statement made by nick in previous thread of his.. >>>>>>>>>>.
if the ot 'god' reappeared today, would that be evidence of 'god'?.
jay, .
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Does anyone else like industrial heavy metal?
by Pika_Chu injust wondering...if there aren't, i'll be sad....
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Pika_Chu
Lol. I like manson, rob zombie, white zombie, fear factory, and nine inch nails.
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176
For non-believers: What evidence would it take for you to believe in 'god'?
by jay88 init all comes down to evidence (but funny how we tend not to accept the evidence that indicates that what be actually believe to be true might be wrong).. this is a statement made by nick in previous thread of his.. >>>>>>>>>>.
if the ot 'god' reappeared today, would that be evidence of 'god'?.
jay, .
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Pika_Chu
Perhaps he could write better, more convincing Watchtower mags...Lol.
I think it really depends on the definition of "God." If we're talking about religious Gods, oh boy, so far nothing convinces me. In order to believe in those gods, he would have to talk to us or something. I mean, an all-powerful, all-knowing, presumably intelligent being higher than ourselves would most DEFINITALLY have to communicate with us by doing more than "giving us signs" and stuff. If he communicated with each and every human being, I would likely be convinced. Such collective subjectivity is pretty much what objectivity is. We rather consider it fact that the sky is blue because it is the general consensus. We only "know" it is blue subjectively. But because everyone agrees with us, the line between opinion and fact gets blurred. That way, it would be at least somewhat convincing. I mean, it wouldn't just be someone "hearing" god's voice or having him "intervene" or something, it would be everyone experiencing this. Actually, a god like that would be cool. Just as long as he's cool with me being an agnostic-atheist-humanist. But otherwise, people have to resort to this thing called "faith" in order to believe.
As far as other definitions of the word, such as, a being or type of beings higher than humans in the universe, I think this would be far more likely. Actually, I think we could actually INVENT a god. like, take a guy, build him a giant robot, make him super intelligent, make him biologically immortal...if we had technology like that, we could all be gods...but, then, we'd all be the same, so...no one is God anymore...
I consider myself an open-minded skeptic. This is a VERY interesting question, and, now that I think about it, it would be rather difficult to convince me of God. But I don't blame it on stubborness. I just think proving the EXISTENCE of ANYTHING, without a degree of subjectivity would prove to be a real doozy. Can you convince me the internet exists? I believe it does because of my own subjective experience. It interacts with me. Other people see it. I can assume it exists on the basis of supporting evidence which also exists. For example, I'm pretty sure I'm talking to real people right now. I'm pretty sure I've got a wi'fi connection. I'm pretty sure I'm interacting with something that exists, as we speak...Oh, geez, hope that didn't sound to indicative of insanity...
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Does anyone else like industrial heavy metal?
by Pika_Chu injust wondering...if there aren't, i'll be sad....
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Pika_Chu
Just wondering...If there aren't, I'll be sad...
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Present some evidence for evolution...
by Spade inthere's no evidence that can't be overturned and exposed as deception in the scientific community.
jehovah's witnesses don't stonewall any new findings.
we have degree regarding adaptation.
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Pika_Chu
present some evidence for creation...
present some evidence you know what you're arguing for/against...
present some evidence for evolution...
oh, sorry, YOU already did that. Evolution=change in genetic populations over time.
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Why the GB can get away with saying whatever the HELL they want--even literally
by Pika_Chu inhas anyone noticed that...no, no, i'm joking!
of course you all know what it's like to debate the r and f. you tell them about actual logical arguments that contradict the gb, and eventually all your "discussions" descend into a sort of "la,la,la, can't hear you!
i can't let those apostate ideas touch my ears!
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Pika_Chu
@diamond: Yeah, that's right. I was thinking of the newer Daniel book. I think they used tablets to try to prove that Nebonidus and Nebachudnezzar were the same person or something. They actually had to calculate the 607 thing. It was never said directly anywhere. And all the more reason to think their interpretation is crappy.
@Desirousofchange: My apologies for going off on a rant there. I was upset at the time. But, I'm not sure I understand your point. How is my assertion wrong? I was just giving the 1914/607 connection as one example of many reasons why people are doubting the GB. And I didn't mean to say they ALL have blind faith. The ones that DON'T will question things like the aforementioned 607 issue as well as the generation overlapping. I was just angry at the time because of the ones who blindly accept everything the GB says. It's very frustrating trying to talk to people who won't listen.
@saltyoldlady: I have seen Animal Farm. Saw it just months before I woke up.
PS-My apologies to anyone I may have offended with my little rant. I was mad at the GB. But can you blame me? This wasn't an angry lash-out at anyone who believes the Bible. I was PO'ed at the JW and similar fundie/cultish circular logic. My whole point was the fact that the R and F just listen to everything the GB says, and every other source of info is wrong or highly suspect. And the "new light" thing allows them to really shoehorn any contradictions into "old light," therefore they always come out being "right."
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Why the GB can get away with saying whatever the HELL they want--even literally
by Pika_Chu inhas anyone noticed that...no, no, i'm joking!
of course you all know what it's like to debate the r and f. you tell them about actual logical arguments that contradict the gb, and eventually all your "discussions" descend into a sort of "la,la,la, can't hear you!
i can't let those apostate ideas touch my ears!
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Pika_Chu
Has anyone noticed that...no, no, I'm joking! Of course you all know what it's like to debate the R and F. You tell them about actual logical arguments that contradict the GB, and eventually all your "discussions" descend into a sort of "LA,LA,LA, can't hear you! I can't let those apostate ideas TOUCH my ears!" But when you think about it, despite the fact that there are numerous reasons why the GB are wrong, you could say they weren't God's organization by pointing out the lack of positive evidence to verify that firmly held belief. This is a lot like those arguments for atheism. Personally, I don't believe in anything that doesn't have a proverbial leg of evidence to stand on in the first place. If their faith in the GB is based on what they consider evidence--and evidence for the Bible in general, what evidence is this? What I'm trying to get at here is, They say things like how the Org MUST be of God because of the 1914 thing. Apologists insist 1914 is correct because 607 must be correct. They say 607 is correct because it is what the Bible says, and they look at a few stone tablets. When up against a mountain of evidence contradicting this, its all deaf ears and a thought-stopping cliche of the following variety: "well, Bible history is superiour to secular history." Seriously? What makes them so sure of this? Blind faith? 'Cause if it WASN'T blind faith, and it was, indeed, based in factual, verifiable evidence, that would mean the Bible would stand scrutiny and match up with secular history. I mean, it would be damned impressive if the mountain of evidence for evolution or the mountain of evidence for 587 bc matched what they interpret as truth. But it DOESN'T. When you have to block out all contradictions, there is a serious problem. When you have to ingore evidence, there is a serious problem. They say things like how they don't put blind faith in anything, that their reasoning is sound. And when information is inconvenient, it is ignored or labeled false. Point in case: Why do they believe the Bible is infallible and therefore superiour to anything "secular?" Is it because it came from God? How do they know? It's scientifically and historically accurate, you say? Well, what about the fact that humans are waaay older than 6,000 years? Well, you see, the Bible contains knowledge from GOD! (Why are you even QUESTIONING THIS?!) Really, well, why do you believe it is knowledge from God? It's scientifically/historically accurate!!! And then,iIf a faith in the Bible is not "weak" and does not rest soley on the basis of historical/scientific accuracy (and therefore, INERRANCY!!!), then your faith is blind. It is unwarrented. It is accepted without evidence. You can really see the circular logic at play here. And the blind and willing acceptance and submission to the FDS. Seriously, it's called theFAITHFUL and Discrete SLAVE. If you dare question them, you're one arrogant dick in their eyes. How dare anyone question blind acceptance.
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Here's one more free mind...
by Pika_Chu inhey, here's one more free mind.
i've been researching and reading posts here and finally decided to join.
i have to say i'm grateful for this site.
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Pika_Chu
@everyone, Sorry I havent been on all weekend. Once again, thanks all for the warm welcome. You wanted to hear my story, and it's a long one, so I'll probably put it in another thread in a few days.
@Reopened Mind, I just came up with the name on the spot. I couldn't think of anything better when I made my account. I'm not sure why I included the underscore though. Perhaps I was thinking I would like to be called Pika for short? Didn't really think that one out, but anyway I used to play pokemon as a kid. And I think pikachu, a mouse, is based on some South American Rodent called a kinkachu.
@Witness my fury, I was already convinced it was a cult before I read stuff on here. But when I started, I kept reading page after page of things I totally agreed with. It was as if I was already a member or something. And the fact that this website exists means something too. If it wasn't a cult, we wouldn't need a place like this to talk about the hurt. And of course research helped TREMENDOUSLY!
@Vampire w/ some Roman Numerals (Lol), Thanks for the advice.Ddebate is a big thing in my world, so I'll try not to get stepped on should I ever venture over to that section. And you'll find out my gender in my story. You see, it's a HUGE part of the story itself. The rigid attitude toward gender roles put forth by the wts had a major impact in my story. But don't worry. I'll let everone know what I am in a few days when I post again.
@d, well, when I first woke up I was both excited and horrified. I now knew that my life was a lie. On the other hand, though...no Armageddon! no picking up dead bodies! no more thought control! And yeah, I'm nervous about being found out too! Like this: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/121957/1/Any-trouble-for-faders-going-back-and-forth3b-JWD-and-the-KH. I'm anxiety ridden but overjoyed to be free!
Peace, and I think I'll start that thread Wednesday. Might have some time and the wi-fi connection then.
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Here's one more free mind...
by Pika_Chu inhey, here's one more free mind.
i've been researching and reading posts here and finally decided to join.
i have to say i'm grateful for this site.
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Pika_Chu
Hey, quick question since I'm a newb about forums...can someone tell me how to change my avatar? Thanks.
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40
Here's one more free mind...
by Pika_Chu inhey, here's one more free mind.
i've been researching and reading posts here and finally decided to join.
i have to say i'm grateful for this site.
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Pika_Chu
Thanks for the comments so far! Those are things true friends would say; not the sort of conditional support you get from still-in jw. Sadly, I don't even think they realize how twisted it is. I no longer doubt it's a cult. Knowledge is power. Knowledge is strength. Here's to many more posts by me and for more free minds! *raises glass in toast*...er, wait, that's pagan. Lol.