Liberty

Joined

• started 18 topics
• posted 414 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Liberty

• 
  15

  Question: ONLY ANOINTED ARE UNFORGIVABLE ?

  by Liberty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  minimus got me to thinking in his thread about the unforgivable sin and judging apostates.

  i hope someone with a clearer memory than mine can confirm or deny what i remember.

  i have some vague memory that the society taught that only members of the "anointed class" (144,000) could commit the unforgivable sin against the the holy spirit because only they had been called by it personally and, therefore, only they could reject it consciously and willfully.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Liberty

  DOES ANYBODY REMEMBER THIS TEACHING?
• 
  15

  Question: ONLY ANOINTED ARE UNFORGIVABLE ?

  by Liberty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  minimus got me to thinking in his thread about the unforgivable sin and judging apostates.

  i hope someone with a clearer memory than mine can confirm or deny what i remember.

  i have some vague memory that the society taught that only members of the "anointed class" (144,000) could commit the unforgivable sin against the the holy spirit because only they had been called by it personally and, therefore, only they could reject it consciously and willfully.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Liberty

  Minimus got me to thinking in his thread about the unforgivable sin and judging apostates. I hope someone with a clearer memory than mine can confirm or deny what I remember. I have some vague memory that the Society taught that only members of the "Anointed Class" (144,000) could commit the unforgivable sin against the the holy spirit because only they had been called by it personally and, therefore, only they could reject it consciously and willfully. As I recall, those of the "Great Crowd" class could be forgiven any sin since we are of a different (lower) calling and had no direct contact with the holy spirit. This was one of the "benifits" of being a member of the "Great Crowd" because even if we were misled into apostacy (or any sin) we could repent and be forgiven before the big "A" unlike members of the "Anointed" who were forever damned. A "with greater office comes greater accountability" type of classism to make the rank & file peons feel better about their lowly status. Am I right about this or have things changed?
• 
  10

  The power of belief systems

  by donkey in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  most of us here have been jw's.

  most of us believed it was the truth.

  inherent in that is the belief that we would be persecuted and this would be one of the signs that we were the true religion.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Liberty

  Great topic Donkey!,

  As victims of a cult who now know better we have been given a unique perspective on the dangers of black and white thinking. Many of us will be very cautious about our beliefs from now on being careful not to fall into the trap of arrogant and mindless certainty. Being an ex-JW has taught me that belief and reality are two very different things. I no longer believe that thinking about something hard enough will somehow make it real. This extremist religious faith is just another variation of "magical thinking" which has misled humanity for thousands of years. Every expert, authority figure, and tradition should be questioned dailey and checked for validity.

  Our instinct for self preservation and instinct for common sense should be listened to when making any decision. Blind religious fanatism or blind patriotism are huge dangers because we are also a cooperative species by nature so, as ex-JWs, we have some idea of where this misplaced devotion can lead. A mature (wise?) person learns from experience to disregard patterns of deception and apply what they have learned to other aspects of belief and action. Dying or killing for an idea or belief should always be considered nobley heroic and insane to the extreme both at the same time. This paradox should always keep us off balance so that we do not run steady and headlong into disaster.

  Most of what I believed as a young person has proven itself to be wrong. This should tell me something the next time I make a harsh judgement or state an opinion. The true nature of the Universe is chaos and as such it is far too complex for black and white thinking or simple conclusions made without good evidence. The heart of wisdom is truely being aware of just how much we do NOT know. Killing or dying for something in this context takes on a healthy measure of uncertainty.
• 
  44

  demons

  by Stefanie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was just wondering if anyone here has had any experiences with them.

  im sorry if thread has already been discussed.

  when my oldest was about 5 months, (i was just studing at the time) i had put her is the crib to sleep for the night.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Liberty

  Sorry I upset you Stephanie,

  We have a baby due in June and the thought of a Watch Tower style demon messing with it is where I drew my inspiration from in the comments that offended you. If I allowed WT superstitions to control my life again I too would have my stomach turned, but because I have studied hard to become a skeptic using reason, logic, and the scientific method these irrational fears have dissapated. I replied to your thread because I wanted you to have the same peace of mind that I have come to know in a world without superstition.

  By looking to the natural world for our answers instead of religion, science has solved many problems which once left humans helpless and paralized with fear. Sickness was once considered to be caused by evil spirits and useless religious rituals were used to try and help people but they died anyway because the cause was not demons or spirits but microbes. If science had never looked to the natural world for solutions and insisted on believing in the supernatural we would still suffer the high death rates found just a few hundred years ago. Your life can be better if you allow science to help you with your problems instead of relgion and spirit mediums. The natural explainations you were offered are a better way to confront and solve the strange events which frightened you. A Dr. or social worker may be able to provide some help if your problem was caused by blackouts or sleepwalking. A nieghbor may have the same TV remote as yours which could be causing your TV to go off and on or an electrical problem which can be fixed may be to blame. In any case, I offered my opinion so that you could seek real solutions to your problems rather than useless imaginary solutions offered by religion and spiritists.

  You are free to believe what you want but we offered you opinions so you can make an informed choice. The Watch Tower doesn't give its followers a wide variety of opinions to choose from, it's their way or the highway. Here you are free to seek any answers you wish. In closing I'd just like to say that the real world is horrible enough and I worry about my baby so not having to face an unseen world of supernatural (imaginary?) dangers too makes my life just a little better because I can concentrate my energies on what can be seen, studied, and solved.
• 
  44

  demons

  by Stefanie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was just wondering if anyone here has had any experiences with them.

  im sorry if thread has already been discussed.

  when my oldest was about 5 months, (i was just studing at the time) i had put her is the crib to sleep for the night.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Liberty

  Hi Stephanie,

  The topic of demons is always a difficult one because there are those of us who just flat out don't believe in them while others are just as convinced that they are real. After years of study and experiance I can say that I am one who doesn't believe that such beings are possible so I always look for a natural explaination whereas believers will always look to the supernatural. Ask yourself logically, if demons are evil and have the strength to move a baby around wouldn't it be easier and more effective for them to just stop a baby's heart from beating or to smother them while taunting you outloud rather than just playing tricks by quietly moving the baby around? If demons were real wouldn't they want you to know for sure it was them and wouldn't they try to use their powers to do greater harm than just turning off a TV or moving things around? The Watch Tower version of a demon is the most unbelievable since they are supposed to be fallen angels, spirit beings second only to God, and yet they use their great intellegence and powers to do stupid useless things like live in old furniture, books, and shawls waiting for hapless JWs to stumble across them at yard sales so they can frighten the children or move things around the house. If the Devil and his minions are doing battle with God for control of the Universe, I think playing silly tricks in mostly private homes of just a very few people would be a huge waste of time accomplishing nothing but encouraging believers to run to their God for help. It doesn't make any sense so other explainations, which you've already been offered, are just more likely. Let science and reason be your guides instead of silly superstitions from a discredited cult like the Watch Tower Society.

  Good luck in your search for truth

  Edited by - Liberty on 9 January 2003 17:48:6
• 
  23

  How would you react if......

  by Pleasuredome in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the wts turned out to be right and in the next couple of years the great tribulation broke out?

  would you have a change of heart and think "yeah maybe the were right all along!"?

  would you even consider joining them again?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Liberty

  Hi Pleasuredome,

  If on the incrediably slim chance that the WT Society could be right about anything it wouldn't matter to me at all. If any spirit being could really be behind a group of complete idiots like the entire cast from the WT Society's leadership past and present I would rather die at the big "A" than live under such an irrational and unfair being and His chosen earthly leadership. If the the Watch Tower cult is the best Ol'Jehoover can come up with then Satan and his bunch look like the better bet to me. They can slam the "Ark door" on me cause I wouldn't go in for all the eternal life in the Universe if it had to be lived under the leadership of these wackos.
• 
  11

  To Trust or Not To Trust?

  by moreisbetter in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  to trust or not too trust; that is my question.

  i have a very big problem with trust.

  for the love of god who?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Liberty

  Hi moreisbetter,

  Never forget you were brainwashed for years by the Watch Tower cult to trust no one but them, including yourself, so is it any wonder you don't trust anyone or even your own feelings? If you are convinced by the overwhelming evidence that the Watch Tower cult is completely false then you have made your first step toword gaining trust in yourself and your reasoning powers. After trusting yourself to know what is real you will naturally be able to tell who you can trust. This takes a long time and you might get burned once in a while but I've found that most non-cult folks are worthy of trust. Go slow and good luck
• 
  9

  Are we under the influence of the Devil?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  to the eyes of the watchtower, apostates are like demons, since they left the truth.

  would the devil be strong enough to have fooled all of us here, in rebelling against god and his organization?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Liberty

  Hi JH,

  Even if I could believe in the Devil and could conceed that he was capable of fooling us weak minded humans into disbelieving in God's "True" earthly organization, the Watch Tower Society, we are still stuck with the cold hard fact that the WTB&TS has a very long history of complete 100% failure in predicting future events using the Bible. The only reason to be a JW is because the WT claims to be the only true religion and is directed and used by Jehovah's spirit so how can it be so wrong about so much all of the time? The Devil couldn't have a better target than the WT Society because it is screwed up. Would God really make it that easy for His arch rival? It is just not possible that a supernatural being capable of creating the Universe could "direct" such an idiotic group as the WT Society for so long if the big "A" is really so near. If God is that stupid then the Devil is on easy street and we are all doomed any way.
• 
  45

  God's Purpose Soon to Be Realized: WT idiocy

  by Focus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.watchtower.org/library/pr/soon_realized.htm.

  " - http://www.watchtower.org/library/pr/soon_realized.htm ?

  http://www.watchtower.org/library/pr/soon_realized.htm.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Liberty

  Thanks Focus for the info,

  The Watch Tower Society's view of the "End Times" has never made any logical sense to me. If we are expected to always be on watch because "we know not the day and hour" then there is no urgency or difference in the basic Salvation message from mainstream Christianity (which they hate) but, yet on the other hand, if JWs preach that the big "A" is near then the converts made in these times are by definition "false" Christians who believe only to save themselves when they see "evidence" of the nearness of the "End" disregarding faith and worshipping God out of fear and selfishness and not love. You can't have it both ways and yet that is what the WTB&TS does. The big "A" is obviously a sales tool and nothing more.

  This whole 1914 generation is such obvious nonsense on its own not to mention the other silliness behind the whole deal. If the "End" doesn't come within the life time of the leadership (or those responsible adults) of the period who would be in their 40's and 50's during this time then the whole concept is meaningless. The very latest that this generation could have gone on would have been the mid 1930s. That "Generation" died many years ago even if they lived to be 130 years old so how could it still possibly apply to us today in 2003 and beyond. This is pure insanity
• 
  31

  Oh, my God! I have blood coming out of my.......

  by gilwarrior in

  1. social
  2. physical

  ass!

  ok, now that i have your attention let me tell you my situation.

  for the past three days i have noticed blood coming out of my rectum.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Liberty

  Hi Gilwarrior,

  Don't panic! If you are young cancer is very unlikely. There are many causes for the bleeding you describe and most are not fatal. If your blood is bright red as opposed to dark then your source is very near the anus and might even be as simple as irritated skin around this area from wiping too hard. A yeast infection can crack the thin skin in this area and cause some bleeding also. If you have insurance you should go to a Dr. just in case it is something more severe. You should probably go even if you don't have insurance since we are not medical experts. If you only have small amounts of bright red blood then I would guess that you have mild hemeroids or a yeast infection and then a change in diet and/or the use of moistened wipes instead of dry toilet paper will probably solve your problem. Cut out the sugar in your diet including soft drinks and alcoholic drinks, beer being the worse, to clear up the yeast infection. Get more fiber in your diet even if it means taking a few non-sugared fiber pills everyday as this will soften the stool and move your waste through your system faster. Drink more water, NOT coffee or pop.

  If you have several ounces of blood and/or it is dark blackish looking you need to get medical help ASAP. Don't risk your health over a few bucks. If you are really poor most hospitals will look at you anyway. Get help if you have severe bleeding or pain especially. At the very least try my suggestions for a few weeks to see if you don't improve.

  Good Luck