Posts by lauralisa

3

A means to an end?

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

i started pioneering, mainly to qualify for privileges like international construction work, with my husband.

we didn't have a retirement plan, and it didn't look like we would be able to save enough money to live on when retirement came, and some young friends suggested the international work to us, and we liked the idea.

my husband started working at brooklyn (another requirement), about twice a year .

lauralisa

Hi Ozzie,

First of all, please accept my sympathies for the ordeal you are enduring these days. Your "heart condition" is in my opinion right up there with some of the most wonderful humans I've known or read about.

I'm responding to this post because just last night I was pondering over a few things. On another thread posted by flower there is a lot of discussion about anxiety and depression and a good amount of struggling for "identity"; confusion about how to form opinions or preferences or make choices etc. without the "structure" of the borg.

In the ensuing responses there were many compassionate replies. I also noticed there were many suggestions for things for her to get involved with in order for her to discover what her likes/dislikes are and to have the opportunity to meet other people.

I've always been curious about the tendency people have to self-reference by the things they DO; in my therapy hey-days there was a mantra of sorts that was reiterated constantly: "You are a human BEING, not a human DOING..." The objective of course was to learn to believe you are of value just because you are alive, and not because you have to earn it through achievements or accomplishments which impress others - providing one with a sense of security or self worth of course.

It got me thinking of jw's and how deeply enmeshed they are in the "human DOING" thing. I can not recall ever being introduced to anyone or having anyone described to me without some kind of qualifying "position" being the predominant emphasis. A sister's son is not just her son, he "auxiliary pioneers periodically" and wants to go to Bethel; a single sister's romantic attraction to a man is related not in terms of his unique personality characteristics, but in his ambition for "privileges" and history of acquiring them; an older widowed sister who has many wonderful charming attributes is described in terms of how frequently she provides lunch for the visiting various luminarious overseers.....

Each and every individual in the congregations in the entire world is classified according to the currently available "titled" positions withing the organization. Their value (read: perceived status) to the congregation is predicated upon their lable.

No wonder individuals who exit the confines of the WTS are flailing about, missing the safe "spiritual niche" trying to see where they "fit" into a society in general, which does not have such clearly defined, easily obtained identifying markers. *(MS! Magazine counter kid! Pioneer! Pioneer's child! Elder's child! Pioneer's house cleaner/babysitter! Parent of Bethelite! Neighbor of pioneer (whose kid is in Bethel!) who gets to accompany neighbor pioneer to special "pioneer school lunches!" Pioneer wannabe!)*

I ended up amusing myself with the concept of the borg being just like the military with their pins and stars and bars and hats and uniforms and obligatory authority hierarchy structure.

Then I finally fell asleep.

Warm thoughts to you, Ozzie,

lauralisa

53

Thoughts about Depression and Anxiety

by flower in

this is mostly directed to others that were born/raised in the cult.

more specifically those raised in the cult who also suffered from severe depression and/or social anxiety disorder or any other mental illness (other than the normal probs that come with being in the borg).

sometimes i wonder if its just me that doesnt feel like a person now.

lauralisa

Hi Flower,

Your post really touched my heart. It is clear that you are hurting and wish for the hurt to just stop. I wish it was that simple...

The first thought that came to mind after reading your post was this: you're alive and well! What I'm trying to say here is you are learning to think and feel - finally - after a lifetime of having your thinking and feeling dictated to you. You wrote:

I cant think or anything. I hate living outside. I know I was miserable in the org but I was safe.

You probably look back now and feel you were "safe" then because you didn't have any choice as to how to reason, think, feel, experience TRUE friendship, make independent decisions, trust your own instincts, take risks, explore your inner longings or desires... perhaps you have not yet experienced any measureable intimacy with another trusted friend or lover in your young life, if you're newly "out" of the organization... one way that us humanoids get to know ourselves is through deep, meaningful and safe connections with others...

No wonder you feel like a "robot", flower; you have been been raised on a steady diet of robot-promoting reflex conditioning. You unfortunately will have to unlearn these responses. I wish it took only a short while but it will take an enormous amount of courage, will, and determination to push on towards becoming - well, becoming YOU, and discovering ALL of the potential you have to explore.... (this is a never-ending journey, btw).

The woman you seem to be from the small amount of reading I'm able to do on the board seems to have a HUGE amount of will, guts, compassion, empathy and character. It will be cool to watch you evolve. So many people who post here have proven that it does happen - and there are thousands of stories that capture all of the resulting joys and bumps and undescribable grief and calmness and conscious awareness.

It's probably not out of line to presume that just about everyone who posts here has had to push through the difficult and lonely period that you're describing so well. I know I have; it has not been an easy thing to do at all but one day, I knew I was "over the hump" of the mountain and on the way down (much easier). The peace of mind, and depth of joy I feel at times now are worth all of the effort it took to climb up. Times ten times a billion times a kazillion.

You are not alone, and you are going to feel better, but right now it's clearly difficult for you. Here's a big support hug to you. Let us know how things go for you, please?

Take care, love, lauralisa

55

OUR LAWYER'S LETTER TO WATCHTOWER & THERE R...

by ARoarer in

when an elder called us to "invite" us to the kh to meet with them to question us regarding accusations of apostasy, while another elder sneakily sat on another line as a "second witness", we, after not being active for several years, having no contact with anyone in the congregation, we felt their phone call was harrassing.

we called our lawyers who drew up a letter that say:.

watchtower bibel & tract society.

lauralisa

Dear ARoarer,

Just want to send you my warmest regards and express my heartfelt support for you and your family.... hang in there, hon...

This entire thread is EXTREMELY useful at this particular point in time for a friend of mine, and everyone who has commented thus far have made such wonderful contributions.

Thanks to all of you.

lauralisa

28

May 15/02 Watchtower: Apostate/Dateline Warning:

by dungbeetle in

this is just the text of this article, comments will follow in a nother posting.

then dishonor will come; but wisdom is with the modest ones.

moses too was modest and humble.

lauralisa

Elsewhere:

You know that they are VERY MUCH ALIVE. Evidence above.

Thanks, Dungbeetle and waiting

11

Ask For A Salad!!!!

by teenyuck in

jw
friends

good for making ratatouille?

fri apr 26, 8:17 am et .

hanoi, vietnam (ap) - more than 100 tons of rat meat is sold for human consumption each day in a southern vietnamese province, an official said friday.. .

lauralisa

Puffsrule! Sorry we couldn't "connect" last month...

11

Ask For A Salad!!!!

by teenyuck in

jw
friends

good for making ratatouille?

fri apr 26, 8:17 am et .

hanoi, vietnam (ap) - more than 100 tons of rat meat is sold for human consumption each day in a southern vietnamese province, an official said friday.. .

lauralisa

lol @ Dakota -

Also, Kim Chee (sp?) (rotting cabbage, buried in hole in ground for a couple of months to "ferment") Yummy!

18

Dissension

by teejay in

jw
friends

beginning over a hundred years ago with the sincerely misguided (albeit egotistical) pastor russell on down to todays corporate incarnation of jehovahs mouthpiece otherwise known as the governing body of jehovah's witnesses, all of the leaderships crimes can be traced to a single kernel of untruth that lies at the very heart of this ungodly organization.

a typical expression of this single but immense seed of falsehood is clearly seen in the following quote, typical of thousands made in the watchtower over the years:... if we fall into the habit of ... ignoring counsel from jehovah through .

his faithful slave class, it will not be long before our hearts become callous, .

lauralisa

Hi Teejay!

What a great thread...

A secondary benefit/curse is that I hate seeing the, "I'm right and since you disagree w/ me you must be wrong" sort of thinking. I intend to challenge it whenever I see it.

Just poking you in the ribs here (In fun - sorry - couldn't resist!!!)

Actually your remark is a critically important one. Think of how much conflict, frustration and damage transpires when an individual persists in a "me right - you wrong" battle and can not relent until they "win".

One scenario: "if you loved me, you'd see things from my point of view!" (The original issue under contention usually gets lost at some point; real or perceived threats to ego/security are what's REALLY fueling the argument; resentment and badgering tactics escalate until some kind of melt-down occurs.)

Another: "You're a moron/a fool/a child/a female/a male/"vulnerable"/mistaken/demonized/mentally unbalanced.... and your point of view will ruin our lives!" (To maintain the status quo at all costs, because 'change' means 'threat', ad hominem tactics are employed to deflect attention away from the issue at hand. The one who is the more highly-skilled tactic-monger usually wins, and their opponent experiences yet another episode of "learned helplessness".....)

These manipulative, controlling and dehumanizing dynamics are universally employed to some degree or another on this planet... generally, people learn to "agree to disagree" and move on, but within the BORGanization, these tactics are endemic and result in innumerable cases of destroyed relationships. Irreconcilable differences have NO resolution other than expulsion, divorce, death... Conform or be cast out... So germane here is what you also wrote:

I eventually took on the characteristics of the leadership, believing I had all the answers to practically every question known to mankind. Certainly made my life simpler. Having the delusion that the leader's statements originate with god makes them all the more powerful and difficult to ignore.

(So true, it making life simpler! Who wants to argue with God?)

Getting rid of that fantasy has been hard but very rewarding.

Rock on, Teejay! It's still morning so I'll raise my coffee to you for freedom of thought.

I don't stay tuned-in very long with the flame-wars that exist from time to time on this board, because - well, the original points quickly become moot as the muck gets muckier - it becomes more of an endurance contest than anything. At least that's what it seems like to me. Yawn.

Thanks for posting this thread.

lauralisa

PS Hey DannyBear! Good to 'see' you !

59

I'm Not Effective Here

by Farkel in

i know this and i've known this for a pretty long time.. sorry to youse who want to receive a different message than what i offer.

you will get what you want from those who give you what you want.

i have no problem with that.. there is a place for me to play.

lauralisa

Fark, how could this be bad:

I just want to make a difference in the lives of dubs and wannabe dubs and ex-dubs lives. I want to help honest people in dubland.

What makes you so sure you're not already doing this here...

lauralisa

59

I'm Not Effective Here

by Farkel in

i know this and i've known this for a pretty long time.. sorry to youse who want to receive a different message than what i offer.

you will get what you want from those who give you what you want.

i have no problem with that.. there is a place for me to play.

lauralisa

Here's MY plunging neckline:

Fark, why do you want to be "effective"?

Smiles, lauralisa

17

Son of dmouse

by Gromit in

jw
friends

this is my first post.

my name ben moorhouse and i am the son of dmouse.

i'm 14 years old and looking forward to talking with you.

lauralisa

Hi Ben,

Welcome to this board! LOL @ Preston... I was gonna ask you to say "hi" to Wallace for me.

I have two sons, 12 and 15. I left the JW organization about two years ago (their dad was never a witness) and they were a bit shaken at first, but as I explained to them, over time, my reasoning in the matter, they are relieved and happier than ever.

I'll be looking forward to reading your posts

lauralisa