there is a large group of jehovah's witnesses that broke away from the watchtower society in the 1990s.
can someone explain to all the interested jwn lurkers and faders, why these romanian and other eastern european witnesses disfellowshiped the governing body in new york?.
i received a email from a member claiming to be part of this group, i was told they "disfellowshiped the governing body" for disobedience to jehovah god and not following the fine examples of brother russell, rutherford and knorr.
In 1962 the society changed the viewpoint concerning the "superior authorities". As Romania was under communist rule, this cause a lot of problems for the Romanians, and a first schism occurred. What happened in the nineties, I do not know, but Ray Franz was invited for a meeting and speech, and I think this had to do with it. You can find the videos of that speech on YouTube.
Hoffnung
before the mentally diseased apostates could get their hands on and dissect any information regarding the convention that hadn't been released to regular publishers/elders...the society released the district program on the official site completely and utterly slaying every single demented apostate on the face of the earth.
now have fun dissecting it kiddos, while we big kids get a taste of solid, spiritual meet this summer.
continue drowning in misery while god's people go on rejoicing and enduring these last days.
Lets see if the society will publish the new released pubs on jw.org before they appear here on JWN. Usually the "apostates" defeat the society by quite a few months. Interestingly too they have to send a letter to all elders to inform them that the program is online, otherwise no JW would bother to go and check, unlike the "apostates".
Hoffnung
jehovahs witnesses and aml.
today i uploaded a new article addressing the dilemma faced by jehovahs witnesses diagnosed with acute myeloid leukemia (aml), and the doctors who desperately want to provide the best medical outcome.
the situation is not what jehovahs witnesses are led to believe.
As far as I know EVERY Hospital Liaison comite in the greater area where I live, was involved with at least one person who died because of the "no blood" stance of the society in the "territory" that is alotted to them. More often they had 2 or 3 people dying. Just get an idea of how many Hospital Liaison comites exist, and you get an idea of how big the casualty number must be at minimum.
Hoffnung
when i checked the wtlib cd-rom, i noticed that henry grew and georg storrs were mentioned only 5 times each from 1950 - 1999. then at once from 2000 onwards, both get more than 50 hits.
why is it that they are now portrayed together with russel as the founding fathers of the faith?
is russel so much of a problem to the gb 2.0 that they have to put 2 others in front of him to deviate the attention?
When I checked the WTLIB cd-rom, i noticed that Henry Grew and Georg Storrs were mentioned only 5 times each from 1950 - 1999. Then at once from 2000 onwards, both get more than 50 hits. Why is it that they are now portrayed together with Russel as the Founding Fathers of the Faith? Is Russel so much of a problem to the GB 2.0 that they have to put 2 others in front of him to deviate the attention? or what else is behind this?
Hoffnung
from the niv:.
17 he brought up against them the king of the babylonians,[g] who killed their young men with the sword in the sanctuary, and did not spare young men or young women, the elderly or the infirm.
god gave them all into the hands of nebuchadnezzar.
v.21 reads:
The land enjoyed its sabbath rests; all the time of its desolation it rested, until the seventy years were completed in fulfillment of the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah.
It is important to note that the 70 years are to be completed in fulfillment of the word of the Lord spoken by Jeremiah. It would not be correct to try to come to a conclusion about the meaning of this verse, without considering the words of Jeremiah. Where can we find this words of Jeremiah? They are in Jeremiah 25:11b, 12 (NWT): "11b and these nations (the list of "these nations" you find in v.17-26, demonstrating it was not just about Juda & Jerusalem) will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”’ 12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·de′ans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite."
After a period of 70 years during which Juda and all the nations around Babylon had to serve the Babylonians, God would bring Babylon to its end. Historians and JW all agree that this happened in October 539 BC, an event well documented in Daniel 5. So the 70 years in 2 Chron 36:21, are 70 years for Babylon, and not for Jerusalem. The verse specifies that the end of the sabbath rest is determined by the end of the supremacy of Babylon. The end of the Sabbath rest of Jerusalem coincided with the end of Babylon, but the beginning of the Sabbath rest did not have to coincide with the beginning of the 70 years for Babylon. the sabbath rest started with another moment, the destruction of Jerusalem.
Historians found that the beginning of the period of servitude of the nations to Babylon, or in other words, Babylon's supremacy in the middle east, started in the 17th year of Nabopalassar, the father of Nebuchadnezar. The Supreme power of the middle east until then was Assyria. When Nabopalassar captured Haran, and defeated Assyrias last king Usharballit, Babylon became the supreme power in the middle east. This information you also find in "Insight on the Scriptures", under the heading "Assyria" (suprisingly not Babylon). The siege and capture of Haran is dated by historians to 609 BC. if we add to this 70 years, we end up exactly in 539 BC. Fullfilling exactly all the related prophecies.
Counting the king's years from the 17th year of Nabopalassar till the fall of babylon, will also give you exactly 70 years, confirming Jeremiah's words.
I hope this helps you further
Hoffnung
i regard the information below as true until proven false because of corresponding with a young man in s. africa for a few years whose story i posted on my website: http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/stories/caleb.html, "freedom from an unsafe haven, by caleb.
" although some of the accounts of abuse of children in s. africa in the story below are older, calab wrote me details of abusive treatment meted out to young people in his area that he chose not to put in his story for fear he could be identified.
calab in now in university in another part of africa and very happy after breaking the chains that engulfed his mind.. barbara.
I feel that Steve2 take on the issue is more balanced.
Doing house chores and maintenance on KH and bethels can become a slavery in extreme cases, but usually is not perceived as such. I guess we all had to the dishes and some cleaning job while still minors, and I do not think that is slavery. I assisted in building KH while younger than 18, and I loved it. I was volunteering. If somebody wants to have this classified as abuse, then I would expect some examples of exploitation, that demonstrate the abusive character, and unfortunately that is missing.
The same can be said about the TV and internet censorship. It is hard to find a balance in what is ok and what is over the top. To really call this abuse, I would expect some real life examples.
Notwithstanding this there is enough in the article that makes it worth reading, and it makes me disgust the society even more. The usual ways of elders to look the other side when there is a clear case of child abuse, silencing the victims and protecting the pedophiles for the sake of Gods name, and the blocking contact with disfellowshipped relatives, definitely has to be brought to the attention of the wider public. Thank you Barbara for postin.
Unfortunately every WT apologist will use to the weak points to discredit the rest of the article, which is a shame.
Hoffnung
so..who here has examples of where the society printed something in a book or magazine...and then when a newer version of the book or bound volume came out...they changed what they wrote to cover up a mistake or to further a doctrinal change?.
They had a rewritten edition of the "you can live forever in paradise on earth" book, the original was from 1982, and in 1989 they made a new edition with changes about the resurrection of the people of Sodom & Gomorrah
Hoffnung
this watchtower is supposed to help people identify true christianity, relative to their cult standards (march 1, 2012).
of course, they use the name 'jehovah' as a club to fend off other claimants - why does it not surprize me that they self reference this silliness by quoting the new world translation and its wrongful insertion of 'jehovah' in romans 10: 13?
no logic here..... and for proof that christians used the name, they offer an unreferenced quote from jewish sources in regard to burning christian books.
Romans 10:13 is a tricky one. In the Greek Manuscripts of this verse Jehovah or the tetragrammaton is not there. As the hebrew versions are translations of the greek text, that can not be used as a valid argument. If it is not in the original greek text, it is not in the hebrew translation of the same greek text either.
Unfortunately that is not all. In Romans 10:11, Paul writes: "For the Scripture says:..." , and verse 13 is clearly a quote from an old testament verse. Actually Romans 10 is full of OT verse quotes. In the original OT verse, the tetragrammaton is definitely there. The question is: did Paul use an OT verse and applied to Jesus? The context seems to confirm this (verses 5 to 10), the more so as until today, no greek text with Jehovah inserted in this verse could be found. But as it is also a OT quote, I prefer to leave it out of the debate and point to other more definite mistranslations, which are there in abundance. Just some 0,02$
Hoffnung
after a terrible break up and being away from the congregation for about 10yrs i started to think about coming back.
i couldnt even watch the news anymore because of the termendous anxiety it would cause.
i felt that there was a target on my back and the big a would surely come before i could get my act together.
Just read both parts. wow. What a bumpy ride. I guess reading others people storys can help you. If you have the time, read Ray Franz 2 books, crisis of conscience and in search of christian freedom. they have a very balanced approach
Hoffnung
six days ago, on the 24th, the announcement was made.
the prior 3 weeks were an 'interesting' time after having come forward about my sin (problem).
(i have an addiction to pornography.
Hi Weskerbout,
Welcome, and sorry to read about your sorrow.
What you can do:
- Realize you just connected to a new set of friends. Keep on posting here how you feel and what you think. Some of us were once where you also are now. Many can relate to your feelings.
- Realize also that you mistook your elders for shepherds. You asked them for help, and they kicked you out in a cold dark world, sure you would be alone out there. They are no sheperds, they are powerfreaks, who got high on the ecstasy of ruining your personal life. (once you realize this, it easy enough to find out how you get reinstated, while hiding your true feelings for those hypocrites). I find it quite shocking they form a JC and disfellowship for viewing P, because many elders have problems with that themselves. I would imagine the could handle that without a JC. You were so honest to come for it, can't them bastards see that? Are you sure none of them had a kind of envy against you, and saw this as an excellent occasion to get rid of you? If you feel better in another church, why not. just do not replace one high-control religion with another one.
- Get enrolled in social activities, sports and alike, do not stay on your own. read the many experiences of others on this board, you will find indications for your way out. Now you took the big step to go search on the internet, do a lot of research.
- Do NOT write any letters in the next few months to the congregation. Please be aware you are emotionally unstable at the moment (absolutely normal), and you will regret any big decisions you take. If you want to be reinstated, you will have to play the most humble person in the universe for at least a year, going to most of the meetings with a colored study watchtower, being ignored by all.
- Enjoy your freedom, with moderation. Don't do shocking things, but go to concerts, theather, find a hobby, music instrument, drawing, etc...
Hang in there. You will make it.
Hoffnung
