on the application forms for bethel, mts, gilead, etc, you have to provide your average field service hours for the last 6 months. if it is lower than 10, you have to state a reason.
Hoffnung
JoinedPosts by Hoffnung
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Field Service Requirements
by DATA-DOG inhas there ever been any official letters stating the amount of field service required to be considered exemplary?
usually the number given is 10hrs, but if you look up " 10 hours " in the cd-library you get 14 hits.
none from the bible of course, and only 3-5 are related to field service.
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Let's Discuss Ray Franz's Books
by Recovery ini have been repeatedly pleaded with to read the books of ray franz in my short stay on this board.
apparently these are all the all-powerful, wt crushing arguments, that lead so many to leave jw's and become ruthless opposers of god's people.
we can discuss any claims/statements/scriptural arguments presented in either of his books, as long as it somehow proves jehovah's witnesses are not god's people.
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Hoffnung
if you want to get the main points of Ray Franz books, they have been discussed at length in many other threads already. a little search for 'christian freedom' or 'crisis of conscience' will reveal them. i found it very interesting reading material, presented in an honest and matter-of-fact way, supported by plenty of scriptures and wt-publications quotes where appropriate. it cleared away a lot of 'fog' around bible and organization questions i had back at the time.
Hoffnung
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Conti Trial Transcripts and Court Documents of Attorney Zalkin's cases of 5 victims WT settled out-of-court, San Diego, all available to download using MediaFire
by AndersonsInfo inthe conti trial transcripts have been uploaded using mediafire.. .
conti trial transcript: http://www.mediafire.com/?oj940x48xuuaa.
the public domain court documents for the 5 victims wt settled out-of-court case in may-june 2012, attorney irwin zalkin, san diego, calif., have been uploaded using mediafire:.
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Hoffnung
what does the minutes below mean? did the society drop the appeal?
Hoffnung
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For Immediate Release JW-MEDIA.org post response to child sex abuse verdict
by BlindersOff1 inhttp://www.jw-media.org/usa/20120620.htm .
just plain old corporate denial.
let the games begin.. .
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Hoffnung
official policy statement:
Our Families
Jehovah’s Witnesses and Child ProtectionAlso in Spanish
Child abuse is abhorrent to us. This is in harmony with the Bible principle recorded at Romans 12:9 . Even one abused child is one too many. For decades The Watchtower and Awake! have featured articles to educate both Witnesses and the public regarding the importance and the need to protect children from child abuse. Among others, there were the articles “Let Us Abhor What Is Wicked!” published in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower; “Help for the Victims of Incest,” in the October 1, 1983, Watchtower; “Your Child Is in Danger!” “How Can We Protect Our Children?” and “Prevention in the Home”, all in the October 8, 1993, Awake!, as well as “Child Molesting—Every Mother’s Nightmare,” in the January 22, 1985, Awake!
(my comment: so cannot even come up with an article of the last ten years? it is not important enought to write an article about it for ten years?)
When any one of Jehovah’s Witnesses is accused of an act of child abuse, the local congregation elders are expected to investigate. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter. If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him and the victim to restate their position in each other’s presence, with elders also there. If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not? As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, “No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good.” ( Deuteronomy 19:15 ) Jesus reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17 . However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action.
(this is not a policy, this is a list of possibilities. A policy has a different tone and feeling)
However, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the allegation to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses in their country, if local privacy laws permit. In addition to making a report to the branch office, the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, the elders receive proper legal direction to ensure that they comply with the law. Additionally, the victim or anyone else who has knowledge of the allegation may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.
(so they don not report to the branch when local laws do not permit? that is not what the flock book says. Elders always have to call the legal dept. Proper legal directions means = report anonymously from a telephone boot so the organization is nowhere involved. Victims and others are also pointed out that they are responsible for the potiential reproach on the organizations reputation)
If, when confronted, the accused confesses that he is guilty of child abuse, the elders take appropriate congregational action. If he is not repentant, he will not be permitted to remain a member of the congregation. Even if he is repentant—is cut to the heart and is thus resolutely determined to avoid such conduct in the future—what was stated in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower applies. The article said: “For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer [full-time missionary of Jehovah’s Witnesses] or serve in any other special, full-time service.” He would not qualify Scripturally. ( 1 Timothy 3:2 , 7-10 ) We take such action because we are concerned with maintaining Bible standards and protecting our children. Everyone in our organization is expected to meet the same requirements, namely, to be clean physically, mentally, morally, and spiritually.— 2 Corinthians 7:1 ; Ephesians 4:17-19 ; 1 Thessalonians 2:4 .
(but under all circumstances, the molester is never restrained from having contact with children, parents are not informed about the potential threat. The action to strip someone of priveleges does not protect any child, it just protects the reputation of the organization.)
In a few instances, individuals guilty of an act of child abuse have been appointed to positions within the congregation if their conduct has been otherwise exemplary for decades. All the factors are considered carefully. Suppose, for example, that a long time ago an 18-year-old male had sexual relations with a 15-year-old girl who was a willing participant. Depending upon the U.S. jurisdiction where he lived when this happened, elders may have been required to report this as an incident of child abuse. Let us say that 20 years have passed. He has been living an exemplary life and he is respected. In such a case, the man could possibly be appointed to a responsible position within the congregation.
(So we have to accept that the rules set forth a paragraph earlier are not valid after 20 years, the rules are way too vague to be reliable)
Our procedures have been refined over time. Over the years, as we have noted areas where our policies could be strengthened, we have followed through. We are continuing to refine them. We do not believe that our system is perfect. No human organization is perfect. But we do believe that we have a strong, Bible-based policy on child abuse. Anyone in a responsible position who is guilty of child abuse would be removed from his responsibilities without hesitation. We certainly would not knowingly allow him to serve elsewhere, either because he moved or through a transfer. Further, we regularly review our procedures to ensure that they are in compliance with the law.— Romans 13:1 .
The Bible teaches that individuals can repent of their sins and “turn to God by doing works that befit repentance,” and we accept what the Bible says. ( Acts 26:20 ) Still, the safety of our children is of the utmost importance. We take it very seriously.
(not seriously enough, that is why you have to pay)
Hoffnung
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Why Did Romania's Jehovah's Witnesses Disfellowship The Governing Body For Apostasy?
by Bubblegum Apotheosis inthere is a large group of jehovah's witnesses that broke away from the watchtower society in the 1990s.
can someone explain to all the interested jwn lurkers and faders, why these romanian and other eastern european witnesses disfellowshiped the governing body in new york?.
i received a email from a member claiming to be part of this group, i was told they "disfellowshiped the governing body" for disobedience to jehovah god and not following the fine examples of brother russell, rutherford and knorr.
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Hoffnung
In 1962 the society changed the viewpoint concerning the "superior authorities". As Romania was under communist rule, this cause a lot of problems for the Romanians, and a first schism occurred. What happened in the nineties, I do not know, but Ray Franz was invited for a meeting and speech, and I think this had to do with it. You can find the videos of that speech on YouTube.
Hoffnung
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Apostates defeated once again.....
by nananana inbefore the mentally diseased apostates could get their hands on and dissect any information regarding the convention that hadn't been released to regular publishers/elders...the society released the district program on the official site completely and utterly slaying every single demented apostate on the face of the earth.
now have fun dissecting it kiddos, while we big kids get a taste of solid, spiritual meet this summer.
continue drowning in misery while god's people go on rejoicing and enduring these last days.
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Hoffnung
Lets see if the society will publish the new released pubs on jw.org before they appear here on JWN. Usually the "apostates" defeat the society by quite a few months. Interestingly too they have to send a letter to all elders to inform them that the program is online, otherwise no JW would bother to go and check, unlike the "apostates".
Hoffnung
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Jehovahs Witnesses and AML
by Marvin Shilmer injehovahs witnesses and aml.
today i uploaded a new article addressing the dilemma faced by jehovahs witnesses diagnosed with acute myeloid leukemia (aml), and the doctors who desperately want to provide the best medical outcome.
the situation is not what jehovahs witnesses are led to believe.
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Hoffnung
As far as I know EVERY Hospital Liaison comite in the greater area where I live, was involved with at least one person who died because of the "no blood" stance of the society in the "territory" that is alotted to them. More often they had 2 or 3 people dying. Just get an idea of how many Hospital Liaison comites exist, and you get an idea of how big the casualty number must be at minimum.
Hoffnung
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Why are Henry Grew and Georg Storrs mentioned so often recently?
by Hoffnung inwhen i checked the wtlib cd-rom, i noticed that henry grew and georg storrs were mentioned only 5 times each from 1950 - 1999. then at once from 2000 onwards, both get more than 50 hits.
why is it that they are now portrayed together with russel as the founding fathers of the faith?
is russel so much of a problem to the gb 2.0 that they have to put 2 others in front of him to deviate the attention?
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Hoffnung
When I checked the WTLIB cd-rom, i noticed that Henry Grew and Georg Storrs were mentioned only 5 times each from 1950 - 1999. Then at once from 2000 onwards, both get more than 50 hits. Why is it that they are now portrayed together with Russel as the Founding Fathers of the Faith? Is Russel so much of a problem to the GB 2.0 that they have to put 2 others in front of him to deviate the attention? or what else is behind this?
Hoffnung
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Any good explanations for 2 Chronicles 36:17-21?
by Knowsnothing infrom the niv:.
17 he brought up against them the king of the babylonians,[g] who killed their young men with the sword in the sanctuary, and did not spare young men or young women, the elderly or the infirm.
god gave them all into the hands of nebuchadnezzar.
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Hoffnung
v.21 reads:
The land enjoyed its sabbath rests; all the time of its desolation it rested, until the seventy years were completed in fulfillment of the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah.
It is important to note that the 70 years are to be completed in fulfillment of the word of the Lord spoken by Jeremiah. It would not be correct to try to come to a conclusion about the meaning of this verse, without considering the words of Jeremiah. Where can we find this words of Jeremiah? They are in Jeremiah 25:11b, 12 (NWT): "11b and these nations (the list of "these nations" you find in v.17-26, demonstrating it was not just about Juda & Jerusalem) will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”’ 12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·de′ans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite."
After a period of 70 years during which Juda and all the nations around Babylon had to serve the Babylonians, God would bring Babylon to its end. Historians and JW all agree that this happened in October 539 BC, an event well documented in Daniel 5. So the 70 years in 2 Chron 36:21, are 70 years for Babylon, and not for Jerusalem. The verse specifies that the end of the sabbath rest is determined by the end of the supremacy of Babylon. The end of the Sabbath rest of Jerusalem coincided with the end of Babylon, but the beginning of the Sabbath rest did not have to coincide with the beginning of the 70 years for Babylon. the sabbath rest started with another moment, the destruction of Jerusalem.
Historians found that the beginning of the period of servitude of the nations to Babylon, or in other words, Babylon's supremacy in the middle east, started in the 17th year of Nabopalassar, the father of Nebuchadnezar. The Supreme power of the middle east until then was Assyria. When Nabopalassar captured Haran, and defeated Assyrias last king Usharballit, Babylon became the supreme power in the middle east. This information you also find in "Insight on the Scriptures", under the heading "Assyria" (suprisingly not Babylon). The siege and capture of Haran is dated by historians to 609 BC. if we add to this 70 years, we end up exactly in 539 BC. Fullfilling exactly all the related prophecies.
Counting the king's years from the 17th year of Nabopalassar till the fall of babylon, will also give you exactly 70 years, confirming Jeremiah's words.
I hope this helps you further
Hoffnung
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Read a story of child neglect and abuse among JWs in S. Africa that was sent to me.
by AndersonsInfo ini regard the information below as true until proven false because of corresponding with a young man in s. africa for a few years whose story i posted on my website: http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/stories/caleb.html, "freedom from an unsafe haven, by caleb.
" although some of the accounts of abuse of children in s. africa in the story below are older, calab wrote me details of abusive treatment meted out to young people in his area that he chose not to put in his story for fear he could be identified.
calab in now in university in another part of africa and very happy after breaking the chains that engulfed his mind.. barbara.
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Hoffnung
I feel that Steve2 take on the issue is more balanced.
Doing house chores and maintenance on KH and bethels can become a slavery in extreme cases, but usually is not perceived as such. I guess we all had to the dishes and some cleaning job while still minors, and I do not think that is slavery. I assisted in building KH while younger than 18, and I loved it. I was volunteering. If somebody wants to have this classified as abuse, then I would expect some examples of exploitation, that demonstrate the abusive character, and unfortunately that is missing.
The same can be said about the TV and internet censorship. It is hard to find a balance in what is ok and what is over the top. To really call this abuse, I would expect some real life examples.
Notwithstanding this there is enough in the article that makes it worth reading, and it makes me disgust the society even more. The usual ways of elders to look the other side when there is a clear case of child abuse, silencing the victims and protecting the pedophiles for the sake of Gods name, and the blocking contact with disfellowshipped relatives, definitely has to be brought to the attention of the wider public. Thank you Barbara for postin.
Unfortunately every WT apologist will use to the weak points to discredit the rest of the article, which is a shame.
Hoffnung
