Posts by fulltimestudent

49

A deeper examination of The New World Translation

by Terry in

shorturl.at/ouakr.

fulltimestudent

Well, I'm not sure who's going to feel what about my comments, so I have to explain a little.

In my old age I had a brainstorm and wanted to study Chinese history. I knew nothing about academic procedures. but applied to two universities, Sydney and Macquarie. Never heard from Sydney, but Macquarie offered me a place. That was good in one way, as the then head of the Chinese department (Prof. Daniel Kane) had lived and worked in China and was a source of first hand explanations.

But the choice of Chinese subjects at MU was very limited and without doing language I could not get a degree. (Didn't want to do Chns L as I figured I'd likely die before speaking Chns fluently). Danny Kane suggested that the Ancient History dept. also taught a lot of Chinese/Asian topics, so I could maybe achieve what I wanted by broadening my vision a little. So I did that.and changed my focus to China in its Asian setting.

Of course, in AH I also found a lot of West Asian topics (NB. The main world religions are Asian with Asian thought patterns) which was fortuitous as I was able to include some covering Judaism/ Xtianity etc. I wont list them all but included the Dead Sea Scrolls . Church and State in late Antiquity. The NT in its Times. Early Christian literature in its times.

I also did another 6 study units at Sydney U. (Sydney U is much better for China Studies ) So I finished up with a major in Ancient History (All with and Asian focus and a minor in Japanese Studies. But I sure know a lot more about Asia than I did 10 years ago.

And after all that, this is the point I want to make.

A lecturer for some of those study units was a Dr Chris Forbes. I asked him one day, have you ever come across the NWT? He said he had read some of it, so I asked what he thought of it? He replied that he thought it was a "lively" translation. So I asked what about John 1:1? He responded that too often in NT translation, the original text can have more than one meaning, a problem that makes translation difficult. (a problem, I think that makes YHWH look a bit of a numbskull).

Dr Forbes is the member of a conventional church (not sure which one) and whether or not he believes in the trinity i don't know. Although, of course, I assumed he is Jesus oriented and not YHWH oriented, but that's just how I saw him.

In spite off that anecdote, I do not think that MU's staff generally would not be anti-trinitarian.

So make what you want from my story.

Footnotes:

1. MU's Ancient History department was strongly influenced by one E.A. Judge, certainly a conventional Christian.

2. The AH department held up my degree, because I did not do one subject (focusing on Rome) that they held to be essential. However, in the end they agreed to my degree.

7

Modern Medical Science Heals Blindness Better than Jesus

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i posted some time back that i was having vision difficulties.

at sydney eye hospital it was determined that i had no other serious eye problems except a growing cataract.. i was referred to another hospital for a removal of the natural lens in my left eye and its replacement by an artificial lens,.

had that operation a week ago - no problems except my iris did not expand enough to permit the lens procedure, so they had to use hooks to expand it, turning a less than 30 minute operation into a 90 minute procedure.. all very professional and first class treatment.

fulltimestudent

I posted some time back that I was having vision difficulties. At Sydney Eye Hospital it was determined that I had no other serious eye problems except a growing cataract.

I was referred to another hospital for a removal of the natural lens in my left eye and its replacement by an artificial lens,

Had that operation a week ago - no problems except my iris did not expand enough to permit the lens procedure, so they had to use hooks to expand it, turning a less than 30 minute operation into a 90 minute procedure.

All very professional and first class treatment. Can now see clearly with my left eye maybe there is better vision than I've had for a long time.

I reflected that Jesus healed on one person on that day, while the hospital I attended replaced the lens for 9 people who had this problem,

And best of all for me, no charge at all because its covered by Australia's socialised medical system.

37

Just realized they changed maybe the most important scripture in the bible.

by Crazyguy in

i just read the scripture then went and checked in thier older bible and it read the same so i check the greek interlinear and yes they changed john 3:16 .

the verse reads "all who believe in him should not perish but have everlasting life" the cult version says "exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life".. so not only do they say one must exercise faith meaning having to work for it but also they changed should not perish but having everlasting life to might not be destroyed again making a caveat where one does not exist.

just to add to the point verse 18 in both bibles says the one having faith is not judged, totally blowing up thier version of 16 but of course they change 18 to say exercising faith too but it makes little difference, since it says not judged.

fulltimestudent

As a jw, I thought of 'faith' as something active, not static and I think many contemporary christian commentators have the same perspective.

These days I do not give a rat's arse about the bible, the Jws, or the NWT. And, I care even less whether the word 'exercising' in this context is acceptable.

But it is important to know that translating something from an ancient language is very difficult. But translation from ancient documents is only part of the story, There is also the problem of early christian's translating from one language to another, It is now appreciated that Greek (or the form of Greek, then in common use) was in common use along with Aramaic, However there is even more complexity in the strong likelihood that there were also local dialects. Did Jesus speak in his local dialect? If so we could assume that early believer's who heard Jesus speak may have had to translate the words and grammatical patterns into another language three times (local dialect>aramaic>greek), We can understand how difficult that could be! (and we have not even touched on the problem of memory. If the book of John was written in the late first century (as the early church thought) then how the hell did John remember the actual words/grammatical forms that Jesus used. Believers will claim that the HS corrected John's faulty memory,

But its much easier to think that John embroidered his memory and used his imagination quite freely. In doing so, he would have bee following a common practise in Roman times, (e.g. the long speeches in the (secular) history of Ammianus Marcellinus (born c. 330, died c. 391 – 400) ,

So what am I getting at?

Translators often compare usage and thoughts to try and make their translation as accurate as possible. So if you wanted to compare thoughts on faith where would you go.

I suggest that the relatively short letter of James is a good p[ace to start, Why? OK! James does not get much emphasis in modern christianity, but he was likely a brother of Jesus, and he presided" over the all-important Jerusalem church; It is interesting to me that a university text book (Introducing the New Testament by Paul J. Achtemeier et al) says of the Letter of James. Quote: "it is a book that sounds much like Jesus and often speaks in tones uncannily reminiscent of Jesus own teaching."

As someone has already point out (in this chronologically draqged out discussion) James 2:4 says something similar to the word 'exercise.', To use different words, but with the same meaning, conviction (faith) and behaviour (works) are inseparable. Or, again, faith affects one's life. So is 'exercising faith,' really such a wrong expression.

^ And, it seems, leadership of the Jerusalem congregation stayed in the family until the Roman army destroyed Jerusalem.

13

A question for Aussies about NBN and streaming / network dropout problems.

by smiddy3 in

has any fellow australians here had problems with the internet dropping out either with their computers or streaming devices on the tv`s etc.. since the nbn took over we have had nothing but trouble with interruption of services on the tv and computer.. i would say it drops out at least 10 times or more in any one day.. it`s a bloody pain in the ass.. a technician came out the other day and supposedly fixed the problem that they knew about by the way (why didn`t they do something about it then instead of waiting for me to make a complaint ?).

the technician went away saying he had fixed the problem ,but lo and behold within a couple of hours we still had the same problems that have continued over this weekend.. i`m just curious if any other australians are having similar problems as i have outlined..

fulltimestudent

Tantalon. - Check this out, https://www.telstra.com.au/internet/mobile-broadband

That's over a 4G network, and when you consider how much faster it will be in the future when we get 5G (that's when D.Trump stops trying to bugger China for not letting him build a Trump tower on the Forbidden Palace site).

I'm looking at it now as maybe instead of a smartphone data service AND my internet connection, it may be cheaper to just have one connection for both smartphone and Computer.

Or, have I got it all wrong (first sign of dotage-grin)

13

A question for Aussies about NBN and streaming / network dropout problems.

by smiddy3 in

has any fellow australians here had problems with the internet dropping out either with their computers or streaming devices on the tv`s etc.. since the nbn took over we have had nothing but trouble with interruption of services on the tv and computer.. i would say it drops out at least 10 times or more in any one day.. it`s a bloody pain in the ass.. a technician came out the other day and supposedly fixed the problem that they knew about by the way (why didn`t they do something about it then instead of waiting for me to make a complaint ?).

the technician went away saying he had fixed the problem ,but lo and behold within a couple of hours we still had the same problems that have continued over this weekend.. i`m just curious if any other australians are having similar problems as i have outlined..

fulltimestudent

Sorry to have to report no problems. Cant say NBN is any better than my old ADSL connection. That was via iprimus (who still manage my connection to the NBN).

Hope you guys get your problems fixed soon,

And, for those who report their telephone line drops out also, I was told by the NBN installers (in my Unit block) that I would no longer have a telephone line connection, but that calls to my (no longer a fixed telephone line) number would come over the NBN connection

,,, And more, I'm quite sure that the original fibre to your computer connection would have been superior. But Tony Abbott ( you know him, he's the guy that believed that YHWH/Jesus would never allow climate change to cause us any hassles - anyway YHWH/Jesus buggered him up at the last election) went bananas about the cost, and wanted to reduce the cost so he could build more submarines or something. And, of course, the libs had to find something for Malcolm T to do after Tony A pushed him out of the party leadership, so they put him in charge of the NBN roll-out. Big mistake! Malcoln did a Law degree at uni, and you know what, lawyers are trained to yack on and on, but they never DO anything. That's why our poor bloody country is going down hill., as 25% of MPs have a legal background.

12

New Study Claims Children Raised Without Religious Indoctrination show More Empathy and Kindess

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

there is a controversial claim in this article, quite different to what christians usually claim.

it interested me, as i often wondered how as jws we could claim to be loving and kind (and certainly some were) yet, be quite callous about those who rejected our message.. you can find this story on this research at:.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danthropology/2015/11/study-finds-that-children-raised-without-religion-show-more-empathy-and-kindness/?fbclid=iwar3zhgjsc_valeb8csd4usq9hyu34goemdj6s3yllnmsdvoy9pnkpzojyz0.

fulltimestudent

I guess I was a little more attuned to the topic of this survey because of a Rugby Union controversy in Australia, A player named Israel Folau, who is a zealous member of the Assemblies of God Church, got into trouble over his public comments;.

He has been sacked from playing RU because of making public statements about various 'sins' on social media. That has raised a lot discussion about the rights and wrongs of the RY managements decision. Folau claims he is not intolerant, but that is only sharing his 'god's views and that essentially he is being 'loving' in doing so. It could be pointed out that the same actions may have led to his being sacked from most large Aussie businesses.

But isn't Folaui's position similar to the social research conducted at the University of Chicago. Imagine, for a moment that Folau is right in his beliefs, If so he will die one day and go to heaven, from where he may observe the torments many of his former RU comrades are undergoing. Will he recoil from the sight of such vicious tortures, saying, " I warned them," and, then turn away, unable to watch the torments his former friends were undergoing.

Surely such a belief, will not make a person kinder? But maybe some can manage that situation. I once knew a circuit overseer, who had a personal belief (that he seldom talked about) the YHWH?JESUS would somehow save only the incorrigibly wicked, Dont aske me howq he managed to juggle that one and stay a JW.

12

New Study Claims Children Raised Without Religious Indoctrination show More Empathy and Kindess

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

there is a controversial claim in this article, quite different to what christians usually claim.

it interested me, as i often wondered how as jws we could claim to be loving and kind (and certainly some were) yet, be quite callous about those who rejected our message.. you can find this story on this research at:.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danthropology/2015/11/study-finds-that-children-raised-without-religion-show-more-empathy-and-kindness/?fbclid=iwar3zhgjsc_valeb8csd4usq9hyu34goemdj6s3yllnmsdvoy9pnkpzojyz0.

fulltimestudent

There is a controversial claim in this article, quite different to what christians usually claim. It interested me, as I often wondered how as jws we could claim to be loving and kind (and certainly some were) yet, be quite callous about those who rejected our message.. You can find this story on this research at:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danthropology/2015/11/study-finds-that-children-raised-without-religion-show-more-empathy-and-kindness/?fbclid=IwAR3ZHGjsc_ValEb8Csd4uSQ9HYu34GOeMdj6S3YlLNmsDVoY9pNKpZOjYZ0

If interested read it for yourself. The study found that children raised in non-religious households are kinder and more altruistic than those raised with religion. The study looked at 1170 children between the ages of 5 and 12 years in six countries (Canada, China, Jordan, Turkey, USA, and South Africa) and examined “the religiousness of their household, and parent-reported child empathy and sensitivity to justice."

The study was conducted at the University of Chicago and published in the academic journal, 'Current Biology.'

Before your fully accept the findings however, you may like to read some criticism of the research. Its a good example of the so-called 'scientific method' in operation. There will likely be more studies and we will see what the final findings demonstrate.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/accordingtomatthew/2015/11/no-atheist-kids-are-not-more-altruistic-than-religious-kids/

I thought about both articles, and attempted to draw my own conclusion, which was that teaching kindness, love etc is fine. But, the problem likely arises because christians want to add a rider i.e. divine punishment. if you do not worship their mythical divinity then you will A. Be tortured forever in hell, B. Die and never get a resurrection. C. God will kill you at Armageddon. Faced with these modifers, who can blame kids for becoming less loving and less kind, at least to some.

1

A Gold Solidus (Roman Coin) Discovered in Israel. reminds us of History often ignored by Christians

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

israel's ministry of foreign affairs reports the finding of a rare gold coin (a solidus) minted during the reign of the emperor theodosius ii, .

this theodosius was an influential emperor in the eastern empire based in constantinople.

he was appointed as a co-emperor (as an infant) by his father in 401 and died in 450.. in this report, the mafa quotes numismatic expert dr. gabriela bijovsky's explanation of the coin, “the gold coin is a solidus minted by the emperor theodosius ii in constantinople (now istanbul) around 420–423 ce.

fulltimestudent

The Israel MAFA report (as above) can be found at: https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/israelexperience/history/pages/1600-year-old-rare-gold-coin-found-by-school-pupils-16-april-2019.aspx?fbclid=IwAR2win1xIsbmsfbJOUixkiIHK8K6rvzYDHP0lDUF7Z1ml5qN0otTrNMxmjc

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Two more actions of Theodosius II may be worth mentioning:

First, he founded the University of Constantinople. It had 31 departments and taught subjects like aw, philosophy, medicine, arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, music and rhetoric. (That was in 425 C.E.)

And, second, he established a commission of inquiry to collate all the laws promulgated in Constantinople since it was established by Constantine and update them as necessary. In 438 C.E. this work was published as the Codex Theodosianus. This collection and the subsequent collation known as the Law Code of EmpeeerorJustinian

In 429, Theodosius appointed a commission to collect all of the laws since the reign of Constantine I, and create a fully formalized system of law. This plan was left unfinished, but the work of a second commission that met in Constantinople, assigned to collect all of the general legislations and bring them up to date, was completed; their collection was published as the Codex Theodosianus in 438. The law code of Theodosius II, summarizing edicts promulgated since Constantine, formed a basis for the later law code of Emperor Justinian I, ( the Corpus Juris Civilis) help us to understand the transformation of Greek/Roman culture by a layer of laws that governed that society,

1

A Gold Solidus (Roman Coin) Discovered in Israel. reminds us of History often ignored by Christians

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

israel's ministry of foreign affairs reports the finding of a rare gold coin (a solidus) minted during the reign of the emperor theodosius ii, .

this theodosius was an influential emperor in the eastern empire based in constantinople.

he was appointed as a co-emperor (as an infant) by his father in 401 and died in 450.. in this report, the mafa quotes numismatic expert dr. gabriela bijovsky's explanation of the coin, “the gold coin is a solidus minted by the emperor theodosius ii in constantinople (now istanbul) around 420–423 ce.

fulltimestudent

Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs reports the finding of a rare gold coin (a solidus) minted during the reign of the Emperor Theodosius II,

This Theodosius was an influential Emperor in the Eastern Empire based in Constantinople. He was appointed as a co-emperor (as an infant) by his father in 401 and died in 450.

In this report, the MAFA quotes numismatic expert Dr. Gabriela Bijovsky's explanation of the coin, “The gold coin is a solidus minted by the emperor Theodosius II in Constantinople (now Istanbul) around 420–423 CE. Similar coins are known from the Eastern Byzantine empire, but this is the first of its type discovered in Israel. One side depicts the image of the emperor and the other shows the image of the Goddess Victory holding the Staff of the Cross.”

The report also comments on an action by Theodosius that affected Judaism, Quote: “The emperor Theodosius II abolished the post of the ‘Nasi’, the Head of the Sanhedrin Council, and decreed that the Jews’ financial contributions to the Sanhedrin be transferred to the Imperial Treasury.” Amitzur continues, “The Sanhedrin Trail initiated by the IAA, tells the story of the Jewish leadership in the Galilee at the time of the Mishna and the Talmud in the Roman and Byzantine periods. It is symbolic that the gold coin discovered adjacent to the Sanhedrin trail reflects the period of dramatic events when the Sanhedrin ceased to function in the Galilee, and the centre of Jewish life (was) transferred from the Galilee to Babylon.”

That last point is interesting. and helps us to understand the non-Jewish influences that had influenced Judaism over long centuries, Most people have heard of the so-called 'Babylonian Captivity,' when the Jewish elite were exiled in Babylon, While, for some who were part of that elite, who may have felt as Psalm 137 puts it,

"By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept. when we remembered Zion. ... How can we sing the songs of the Lord, while in a foreign land?

The majority buckled down to life in Babylon, and in time a thriving Jewish community came into existence.That explains why Babylon became the centre of Jewish life in the time of Theodosius II. While in Babylon the Jews were influenced by religious concepts such as Zoroastrianism. By 323 BCE, Palestine became part of Alexander the Great's Hellenic Empire and different religious and philosophic concepts began to influence the Jews. Colonies of Greek ex-soldiers were established all over the empire, One was established near to Jerusalem

Most of us (as witnesses) may never have read Maccabees, but 1 Maccabees 1:14> tells how some Jewish people reacted to Greek ideas.

"14 So they built a gymnasium in Jerusalem, according to Gentile custom, 15 and removed the marks of circumcision, and abandoned the holy covenant. They joined with the Gentiles and sold themselves to do evil"

And 2 Maccabees also comments: (ch4 verses 7 to 15)

During the second century B.C., when the Seleucids under Antiochus Epiphanes tried to convert the Jews to Greek culture, Jason, one of the Jewish high priests, built a gymnasium in Jerusalem. Aristocratic Jewish young men began to frequent the gymnasium and to participate in Greek activities. The pious Jews were shocked at both their nudity, prohibited by Jews, and their practice of wearing the broad-brimmed Greek hats, associated with the worship of the Greek god Hermes. In addition some of the young men became ashamed of and tried to hide their circumcision. These practices were one of the causes for the Maccabean rebellion of 175 B.C.

The author, is as you can see, is quite hostile to these developments, but we easily get a picture of young people wanting to try new ideas. And like many young people raised as JWs, they have no interest in the boring old ways.

So even many young levites. serving in the temple, wanted to got to the gym and participate in the various sports naked. But that raised a problem Jews were circumcised and the head of their penis thus exposed. To Greeks it was shameful to expose the head of their penis. They often tied a string or ribbon around their foreskin to prevent exposure of the penis glans. So these young Jews started attempting to increase the length of what remained of their foreskins

Galilee, also gets a mention in the MAFA note. So Jesus (whoever he may have been) grew up in an area that had become Hellenised. That's why many scholars believe that Jesus probably spoke in greek. Galilee you may recall was a centre where Jesus (according to the Gospels likely written more than 2 decades after the death of Jesus) focused his preaching. Galilee, it is generally thought, was a wealthier area than say the Jerusalem area, and more influenced by Greek culture

Galilee became the main Jewish centre after Rome ( who had conquered the West Asian area by 64 BCE) defeated Jewish rebels (between 66 C.E. and 136 C.E.) and commenced a policy of excluding Jews from Jerusalem and area.

The excluded Jews and christians, (most of whom were ethnic Jews) fled as refugees to Galilee, hence the point made by the MAFA report that Jews in Galilee (in the time of Theodosius II) left Galilee and moved to Babylon, which became a centre for Jewish studies.

49

The Truth about the bible

by TTWSYF in

it really is common sense, but nobody here seems to recognize or acknowledge this blatant and obvious truth.. the holy bible is the result of the catholic liturgy.

they used these scriptures in their religious practices and confirmed which books would and would not be part of their cannon.

they picked, preserved and promoted these books and gave 'the word of god' to the world.. i know that pisses off some folks, but it is the truth [not the 'truth'tm].

fulltimestudent

OK Simon, my remark was contrasting the treatment of the population by the respective invading armies. And, I stand by the statement i made as historical truth. Of course, it may sometimes difficult to decide who did the worst things and who may even have been more merciful, especially when both groups did similar things and we attempt to form an opinion as to who did more evil things.

I am not a Islamic apologist, just a person who is interested in the historical truth.