MeanMrMustard

Joined

• started 67 topics
• posted 3,869 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by MeanMrMustard

• 
  3124

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  "Constrained" - A Haiku by Lloyd Evans

  The bonds of marriage
  They hold me, repressive bonds
  Comfort me Asia
• 
  3124

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  Did we accidentally figure out the max post count for a thread?
• 
  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  "Future" - A Haiku by Lloyd Evans

  My platform burning
  Virtuous patrons, goodbye
  Defamed by the truth
• 
  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  "Christmas" - A Haiku by Lloyd Evans

  Thailand calls for me
  Sweet family holiday
  Girls, over 20?
• 
  16

  How many people thought about suicide after they were disfellowshipped

  by Lee Marsh in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know i was suicidal before i was disfellowshipped.

  and it got worse after i left.

  one night a friend told me that he went home the night before and wasn't sure if he would ever hear from me again.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  Witnesses would never admit that it had anything to do with their own family shunning them.

  This is true. Also incredibly sad and amazing.
• 
  16

  How many people thought about suicide after they were disfellowshipped

  by Lee Marsh in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know i was suicidal before i was disfellowshipped.

  and it got worse after i left.

  one night a friend told me that he went home the night before and wasn't sure if he would ever hear from me again.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  I never knew any JW that committed, or attempted to commit, suicide after getting DFed.

  Active JWs - thats a different story. I knew two active JWs that successfully committed suicide while still in - and in pretty deep. Although, you never know. One was an elder. Had a big family too. Very sad.
• 
  60

  Goodbye Mother

  by punkofnice in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so my mother passed on 20 aug 23 from the big c. i was there when she went.

  that was indeed very traumatic.

  i won't go to describe it.. dad went 17 years ago so there's just me now.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  @punk: My condolences. Sorry for your loss.

  I refused to have a JW funeral because it is no more than a recruitment ad for the filthy, disgusting cult.

  Good lord, this is true. In the last two years, my wife lost two grandmothers and one aunt - all JW services. Being on the outside and hearing the pitch during a funeral service just made me so angry.

  I'm glad to hear that your mother received, in my opinion, a more dignified service.
• 
  125

  Mandated Shunning is a Crime

  by Lee Marsh in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

  shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

  mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  @Stan - I'm not even saying you can't hate them. I'm not even saying they can't hate you.

  What I am saying is that religions, and various groups in general, frequently come up with lists of stuff that they don't like so much. Take, for example, Islam. Have you tried to draw a picture of Mohammad for them? This is not an activity that they smile upon. One of their rules is "Don't draw pictures of Mohammad". And if you engage in that activity you are evil, deserving of death, and to back that up, they point to their scriptures. Your family would probably shun you if you did so, or even if you suggested it wasn't so bad.

  We should be able to "hate" the practice. Denounce it, tell them its actually immoral. We can even tell them they believe lies, and are abhorrent to life itself. But they don't have to listen, and I can't force them to agree with me.

  And they can't force me.

  Undermining that principle would endanger that separation.
• 
  125

  Mandated Shunning is a Crime

  by Lee Marsh in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

  shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

  mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  Yep. Might as well have been. The average new member sits in how many meetings? Hears this from the platform how many times? Actually sees it happen how many times?

  Right - they think we are all mentally diseased. So? I think THEY are mentally diseased. We're even.

  The point here is that it is not and should not be a crime.
• 
  125

  Mandated Shunning is a Crime

  by Lee Marsh in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

  shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

  mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  There is nothing about removing an individual's right to decide who they talk to. Not one word.

  It is about a group telling people that they will die if they talk to the "mentally diseased" if that isn't hate speech I don't know what is?

  No. There is no such thing as "hate speech". There's all sorts of mean, cruel speech, but none of it fits into a bannable container that you label "hate speech". You couldn't define it, even if your life depended on it. It's a blanket term for "things I don't want people to say".
  

  A society that values free speech, yet prohibits "hate speech" is a contradiction. It's a square circle, a married bachelor.
  

  That being said, I get what you are saying, and trying to push you to examine what the consequences would be if you got your way. The nature of religion is that each religion thinks they are correct, to the exclusion of all other religions. If one religion has a belief that former members are bad (for whatever reason), and current members believe in the religion and agree, you are crossing into the individual purview. As we have seen on previous pages, people do the shunning, a lot of times in excess of what the WT would suggest.
  

  What you really want is to outlaw the beliefs of the group, in favor of your beliefs.
  

  And they are using God to coerce people into doing what they want not to protect people but to prevent them from leaving too if they find out they have been lied to.

  Maybe. It doesn't matter. At one point we all had this conversation:

  Group: "Hi, we're a group with a lot of rules. We are pretty strict with our rules, but we love people that agree with us and hate the dissenters. We think former group members are super bad, and we don't talk to them. Here is a list of our rules. Do you want to join?"

  You: "Yep."

  People in the religion agree with it. You don't agree, and you left. Great. The shunners still agree. You will have to force them into a position they don't want to hold.

  In the WTS there is no honorable way to leave.

  Yes there is: "Hey guys, this isn't for me. Thanks."

  There is no compromise. No "agree to disagree".

  Yeah, that's the nature of religion. They think they are right. It's the nature of political positions too. Which is why you want to stay away from this line of reasoning.

  You are the "walking dead" and if JWs have contact with us then they too are dead.

  Not really. Probably to the hard-core ones.

  People do have the right to join any group they want and believe what they want. They do not have the right to force others to join or believe the same thing.

  The WT isn't forcing anyone to join or stay. Don't brush aside your accountability, and don't brush aside your "loved ones" accountability either.

  And the GROUP leaders do not have the right to force anyone to do things that are ethically wrong, no matter how much they want to control everyone.

  They aren't.