Posts by MeanMrMustard

171

Mass Shooting at Kingdom Hall in Hamburg, Germany

by EdenOne in

mass shooting at a kingdom hall in hamburg, germany this evening.

at least 6 or 7 killed, dozens injured.

single shooter on the run, police doesn't rule out more shooters.

MeanMrMustard

You know how they say one way we can tell birthdays are really super evil is that bad stuff happened during the birthdays recorded in the Bible.

I wonder what we can conclude from this event........?

208

How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?

by psyco in

i remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.

thanks..

MeanMrMustard

Hey MeanMrMustard, maybe the book of Jeremiah refers to two overlapping periods of 70 years ..

I see what you did there. :)

But if the 70 years (or one period of 70 years) includes defeat of Assyria, why is their no mention of Assyria in Jeremiah chapter 25. As far as I can tell no city of Assyria is even mentioned in chapter 25. Am I missing something in chapter 25 which specifically refers to Assyria?

Why should there be? I guess this gets at the main point: what is the 70 years? It's been my position that if you look specifically at what's said, just read it grammatically and accept that it's not some sort of cryptic message, then it's 70 years of Babylonian rule.

Seventy years that nations (not just Judah) will serve Babylon. Again, 29:10 - "Seventy years FOR Babylon"

Every time the 70 years is mentioned it points to Babylon, and specifically it's rule. Like Daniel said (ch 9) he may not have known the exact time the 70 years began, but he sure knew when it ended. He was looking in Jeremiah and read that when the 70 years ends, the king of Babylon would be called to account, and he just saw that happen. He probably knew it was getting close (since he had been captive for a time approaching 70 years), but he knew it was over because Jeremiah said it was 70 years for (29:10) Babylon, and when the 70 years was over Babylon fell.

If the conquest of Assyria is included in the prophecy (and pertains to the start of the the 70 year period) then why does Jeremiah 25:1 say that Jeremiah received the prophecy during the first year in which Nebuchadrezzar was king - which was about two years after Nebuchadrezzar (during the reign of his father) had conquered Assyria and thus made it a part of the Babylonian empire?

Because tthatis when he received it. Where does it say the 70 years has any connection to when Jeremiah received the prophecy? The prophecy said 70 years Babylon would subjugate plural nations, including the ones "round about". They weren't all subjugated at the same time. Some nations were made vassals years before Neb. It's still seventy years FOR Babylon.

Why does verse 9 also state it pertains to the time in which Nebuchadrezzar was king and thus after Assyria had also became a part of the empire of Babylon?

Because Neb is king during the time Judah gets its punishment. So? The 70 years is still just connected to 'nations' serving Babylon.

That is right. Since Assyria was already conquered by Babylon by the time that the book of Jeremiah says that Jeremiah received the prophecy, then that means (according to the prophecy, as recorded in the book called Jeremiah) Assyria was already a part of Babylon (that is, the Babylonian empire, Babylonia) when the prophecy was received. That is probably why Assyria is no where mentioned in chapter 25 as one of the nations which will serve Babylon - since it was already a part of Babylon/Babylonia (Babylonian empire)!

Right. But it's seventy years FOR Babylon (29:10). Part of that 70 years is what Babylon did before Neb did anything to Judah. It wasn't a terribly long time, but it was there.

Notice also that Jeremiah 25:2 itself puts the emphasis upon Judah and Jerusalem - not upon the gentile nations, yet you claim is wrong for me and others to put the emphasis on Jerusalem and the rest of Judah.

This keeps coming up: that Jeremiah "puts emphasis" on Judah. You quote it :

Jeremiah 25:2 (NWT Study Edition) says the following. "'This is what Jeremiah the prophet spoke concerning* all the people of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem:"

This is essentially my issue. The condemnation is for Judah. They are going to get punished. How? By Babylonian rule. If you take verse 2 as somehow overriding the clear language in v11, then that's the exact ungrammatical reading I'm arguing against. He said 70 years FOR Babylon, when nations (plural) serve Babylon. One of those nations is Judah. That is the judgement that concerns Judah.

773

Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

this has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.

this is not a joke.

anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!

MeanMrMustard

He may have an alcohol problem. However, that's irrelevant. He was removed from the GB because he was promoted to holding a seat at the table of The Kerfuffles - an elite group that operates above the GB and actively steers events in human history.

For example, the fake sign language translator placed at Nelson Mandala's funeral - that was The Kerfuffles.

As I have documented in the past, not all GB are Kerfuffles, and not all Kerfuffles are GB members. Here are some past links on the subject, years old now:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4835194868596736/masionic-rings-worn-on-right-hand?page=3

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6324615639990272/help-anyone-identify-gary-breauxs-ring

If Hal were Alexa

by MeanMrMustard in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jepkvuym9fg.

MeanMrMustard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JepKVUym9Fg

773

Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

this has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.

this is not a joke.

anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!

MeanMrMustard

We dont know, however, we must be careful not to assume too much.

What we do know for sure is that Tony seems have been operating a bitcoin mining farm in the vents of the Wallkill headquarters. For years it was thought the excessive humming sound in building A was just the noise coming from the new heaters. Residents did think it was odd that the heat remained on, even when it was explicitly off.

Now that the mining farm has been shut down, residents in building A scream at all hours of the night, scared of the deafening silence.

72

Prediction of Watchtower in a Few Years

by Foolednomore in

jw
friends

kingdom halls will be the thing of the past.. conventions (mini assembly halls will still be going on) but will charge for attending and parking and always a donation.

elders will play a much smaller role since csa.

cart preaching will replace door to door.

MeanMrMustard

I feel the org will be more accepting of tight pants going forward.

773

Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

this has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.

this is not a joke.

anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!

MeanMrMustard

More news emerging:

Turns out Anthony was a vocal fan of The Last Jedi, even going so far as saying it was the best out of all Star Wars movies. He was going to tell the bethel family all about it, and how great it was to see a movie that subverted so many expectations. When Tony showed up to a GB meeting wearing a Rian Johnson fan T-shirt, they did what they had to do.

208

How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?

by psyco in

i remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.

thanks..

MeanMrMustard

@DisillutionedJW:

The first two paragraphs seem like we are in agreement. Let me try to pick out the places of disagreement.

As result I began seeing that the idea of Jerusalem and Judah being in servitude for 70 years (or very close to that number of years) ...

From this, I see you are OK with the idea of the seventy years being a round number. Ok, fine. It's definitely not a perapective JWs are fine with. But if you are OK with this, then you can agree that the seventy years of servitude ends in 539 (v12), but begins in 607.

... is consistent with both the Bible and history and science (archaeology) and approximately with the date of 606 BCE, and that stunned me and greatly impressed me. After that, when I read Jamieson's commentary which gave the interpretation of Jerusalem's servitude having begun in 606 BC .. I thought its reasoning made a great deal of sense, and displayed no "tortured logic" in that matter.

Note: the comment about "tortured logic" wasn't directed specifically at you or Jamieson. Rather, the authority of commentaries in general.

It also got around the issue of the fact that Jerusalem's destruction happened in the year 587 BCE (plus of minus one year) and revealed that the WT's reasoning about he the year 607 BCE (originally the year 606 BC) had some degree of logic and suitability to it. Regarding the idea of the Bible having prophesied that Judah would be desolate (instead of in servitude) for specifically 70 years, I don't recall any verses saying such, however I have not looked to see if there are any say such verses. In the past I might have read such verses, but I don't remember having read such. I do remember that the WT says that the Bible says that Jerusalem and Judah would be (and/or was) desolate for specifically 70 years, but I am not certain that view of the WT is correct. I am not 'defining the "desolation" referred to in v18 as more of a soft desolation, like a vassal or servitude.' I am not defining "desolation" as meaning "servitude"; to me they have very different meanings. I am not equating 70 years of servitude with seventy years of desolation. Likewise I don't see the Jamieson commmentary (which I quoted from) referring to the 70 years as soft desolation or any other desolation. That which I quoted from in it, in regards to the seventy years, is stated by the commentary as referring to the years of servitude and of captivity. I don't see it as saying the desolation as having lasted 70 years. It specifically says "Jeremiah's seventy years of the captivity begin 606 B.C., eighteen years before the destruction of Jerusalem ...."

And here is where we differ. The commentary says the 70 years is defined as "the years of servitude and captivity." Then it proceeds to call it "Jeremiah's years of captivity" - applying it to the the time when the first exile/captivity took place. So, it really sounds like Jamieson is saying (and you are agreeing) the 70 years pertains strictly to Judah's captivity, except he's willing to acknowledge that there were three separate waves of exile.

But Jeremiah says 70 years of servitude of nations, specifically all the nations round about (v9). So why limit this to one nation? What are you reading there that let's your eyes see 'nations' and yet reduce it to one 'nation'?

Then there's this again:

The plain sense of Jeremiah 25:29 says the calamity begins (starts) first with Jehovah's city (namely Jerusalem) and Judah and proceeds to gentile nations.

"See, I am beginning to bring disaster..." is not the same as saying Babylon will "start with" Jerusalem.

Seventy years of servitude, vassalage, to Babylon of many nations. One of which was Judah, but the rule of Babylon is the 70 years.

Hence 29:10 - "When seventy years have been completed for Babylon..."

The emphasis of the 70 years is always Babylon. Not just Nebuchadnezzar, Babylon. It's 70 years of Babylonian rule. And 25:12 makes it really clear because when the 70 years is up, Babylon falls ( in that order ).

Though Assyria was conquered by Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon before the year 606 BCE, Nebuchadnezzar II was not yet king at that time. Nebuchadnezzar II conquered Assyria while Nebuchadnezzar's father was king of Babylon.

So? I don't see where the 70 years is attributed specifically to Neb. It's "for Babylon".

I think the rest of your posts veered away into different topics. So I'll leave it here.

208

How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?

by psyco in

i remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.

thanks..

MeanMrMustard

@DisillutionedJW:

Thanks for the responses. A lot to parse through.

773

Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

this has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.

this is not a joke.

anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!

MeanMrMustard

Sheesh. I guess nobody got the Lloyd reference with that last one.

Tough crowd...