"In fact, there is about the same amount of forest cover today as there was 100 years ago, even though we consume more wood per capita than any other region in the world. Isn't this proof positive that forests are renewable and sustainable?"
Not if you consider the state of the forests 100 years ago. It was during this period in which much of the forests had been logged off, leaving new problems to deal with, such as erosion.Have you seen pictures from this era? I've seen pictures from that era, and I would have to agree that it IS begining to look the same again, at least in the state where I used to live-huge areas of clear cut that stretches over hundreds of acres. And we're not talking poplar, which regenerates from the root system. These are red pine and other fairly slowly maturing species that are being cut down and chipped up at an incredible rate in comparison to the rates of harvest in the past (those machines cost millions of dollars and someone has to make the payments on them somehow-even if it does mean more acres of clear cut have to be produced to pay for them).
A lot of the wood that is "consumed" in the US today is being imported, and that's why we can "consume more wood per capita than any other region in the world."
http://www.endgame.org/gtt-indo-imports.html
These are some stats from a few years back, but illustrate what I mean concerning imports.
Also, forestry manufacturers are now in a trend where they are merging into huge corporations to (in the words of an article in the October 2004 Southern Lumbermen magazine), "achieve significant cost synergies as well as market clout with customers and suppliers."
The small foresters, who usually live in the area where they are harvesting, are now being replaced by larger corporations whose headquarters are often based well out of the areas they are cutting. I think this disconnection could be worrisome, in that there may be less awareness of the impact of clear cutting in the areas where a lot of clear cutting is being done, both environmentally AND esthetically (how many of you would enjoy living in an area that is nothing but acres and acres of stumps? I HAVE, by the way).
Now before you start hurling the "fear monger" label at me, let me tell you a few things. My family has been involved in the forestry industry for several generations. I have had members work for both small forestry firms and very large forestry firms.I AM a tree hugger, in that I will always be concerned about the state of the forests and the impact of humans upon them, but I'm not the type to think we ought to abandon the use of forest products altogether. I do know that ideology and politics sometimes outweigh our ability to sit down and really think things through, though.
The forests are renewable and sustainable if you don't harvest more than the capacity of the trees that are mature and ready to be harvested. When firms start to merge to "achieve SIGNIFICANT cost synergies as well as MARKET CLOUT with customers and suppliers" this makes me stop and think.
Cicatrix
JoinedPosts by Cicatrix
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80
Is Global Warming a Myth?
by Sirona ini've been reading about global warming recently and to be honest its getting more confusing by the minute.. some say there is so much evidence that it is caused by humans (burning of fossil fuels etc) but some say that it is a natural cycle that we shouldn't worry about.. http://www.junkscience.com/news/robinson.htm.
what is the truth?
are you concerned about our planet?.
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Cicatrix
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Still prejudiced towards Halloween
by Snapdragon ini was just reading the thread on how to pick the proper pumpkin.
(thanks xandria) it got me thinking how i still have this recoil factor when it comes to halloween.
it was always "satan's holiday" that i still tell my friends that i probably won't participate in the festivities when i decide to have children.. what do you guys do about this issue?
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Cicatrix
Hi Snapdragon,
If you click a little further into the Beliefnet article, it has links to the Religous Tolerance page that Gently Feral posted.They are really thorough articles.
I found this site because my nephew was asking questions about Halloween. His wife doesn't want to let their kids celebrate it and he does. He was interested in what I thought about it, since I used to be JW and didn't celebrate it. He wanted something that he could use to educate his wife that she might actually look at. Other than providing him the info, I'm staying out of their debate, though, the decision about how they rear their children should be worked out betwen them, and I have no intention of siding with either one of them, though I will be happy to answer questions for both of them.
"I'm pointing that out, because therein (in the misconceptions) lies the root of bigotry and religious intolerance."
Sirona,
I agree heartily with you:) -
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We stopped by Satan's place. He says "Hi."
by kwintestal inat least growing up i was told it was satan's house.
we just made the long cross-canada drive to attend my wife's grandfather's funeral.. my wife has had somewhat strained relations with her parents since she became a jw, 8 years ago, and it seemed that this visit was going to be more of the same.
one of the first things her mom said, was that they were having a mass for the funeral in a church.
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Cicatrix
While JW, I never hesitated to attend funerals or weddings of family members that were held in churches. It certainly rendered me part of the "fringe" class in my congregation, but it was worth it it in the end.
There were some in my congregation who made a great show out of not attending funerals and weddings in churches.It was kind of funny that when one of their loved ones died and a non-Witness family member refused to attend the memorial service at the Kingdom Hall, they were incensed by the "persecution." I was amused that when it was them, they were "honoring Jehovah," but when their equally religious family member did the same, it was "persecution for Jehovah's sake."
It was just one more incident on my list of wake-up calls;) -
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Still prejudiced towards Halloween
by Snapdragon ini was just reading the thread on how to pick the proper pumpkin.
(thanks xandria) it got me thinking how i still have this recoil factor when it comes to halloween.
it was always "satan's holiday" that i still tell my friends that i probably won't participate in the festivities when i decide to have children.. what do you guys do about this issue?
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Cicatrix
Hi Snapdragon,
You may find this link interesting
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/47/story_4771_1.html
Regards,
Cicatrix -
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What's the first worldly thing you did when you left?
by Nosferatu inafter you left the jws, what was the first worldly thing you did?
the day after my last meeting, i got really really drunk.
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Cicatrix
Bought Halloween AND Christmas decorations,lol.
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72
Rationalism and religion
by Narkissos ini've not been too good at creating topics thus far, but for my 1000th post (in case you wouldn't notice .
we often oppose reason (ratio) and belief, as if those were mutually exclusive.
reason always works from presuppositions.
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Cicatrix
"I feel what we usually call "irrationality" plays a very important, albeit provisional and transitory, role. For instance when one's rationality comes to a crisis, i.e. when our presuppositions change. As a JW I would have sworn that I had been rationally convinced of the three presuppositions to my religious rationality. But now I know this was not the case. I chose to believe because I chose to believe. And I later chose to disbelieve, or believe something else, because I chose so.
I need the light of day. But I also need the darkness of night and its "irrational" dreams (which still belong to language, even though they don't seem so). Both motivate my actions, even if the daylight falsely claims everything."
Nicely put, Narkissos, this is what I was trying to illustrate in a round about way. I tend to feel it's an evolutionary and cyclical sort of thing that can rear up when events in life create a crisis situation. I'm wondering if we ever outgrow the need for "irrational dreams."
I kind of hope not:) -
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Rationalism and religion
by Narkissos ini've not been too good at creating topics thus far, but for my 1000th post (in case you wouldn't notice .
we often oppose reason (ratio) and belief, as if those were mutually exclusive.
reason always works from presuppositions.
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Cicatrix
Congrats on your thousandth post, Narkissos:)
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72
Rationalism and religion
by Narkissos ini've not been too good at creating topics thus far, but for my 1000th post (in case you wouldn't notice .
we often oppose reason (ratio) and belief, as if those were mutually exclusive.
reason always works from presuppositions.
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Cicatrix
"If you can be convinced you cannot trust your own perceptions and your own rational mind you are left defenseless to any wild and wooly claim or colorful story or feel-good scenario by any shyster or emissary of God's wild kingdom."
I agree. That's why I stand by my opinion;)Perhaps my experience will change my opinion with time. But until I reach the end of my life, I will not close myself off to the explanations of others, nor stop investigating what exactly perception is.
It seems that there is an example of a difference of perception here on this board. I gave a definition of "religious" that came verbatim from my dictionary, that stated that religious is defined as "relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality OR deity."
Atheists are convinced that objective thinkers endeavoring to apply rational standards use Reality as a standard.Is this application not ultimate reality?What could be a more ultimate reality than Reality itself?
My dictionary also says that religion can mean "A personal set or institutionalized system of religious beliefs and practices." and "A cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith."
My dictionary is real and tangible, and it has these definitions in it that I can read, and that can fit the Atheist ideology that "objective thinkers endeavoring to apply rational standards use Reality as a standard."
This is an application of ultimate reality. You hold to it with ardor and faith, discounting and trying to dissuade any one who disagrees with your system of beliefs. Therefore, my perception is that Atheism is a religion, using my dictionary's definitions. I find this to be very reasonable.
Perhaps you are offended by my perception, because you view religion only as being any "wild and wooly claim or colorful story or feel-good scenario." In that case, I would understand why you feel as you do about Atheism being classed as a religion. But for the record, I don't have that view of religion. I respect your opinion and your concern that others not be hurt by religion, and enjoy reading what you have to share about Reality and reason.
As far as all of those mystic thinkers who are corrupting the new crop of college students, well, I didn't learn about any of them in college.I didn't take philosophy, my psych teacher was an atheist, and my mythology teacher taught mythology as MYTHS (although he didn't cover Hebrew mythology to avoid offending Christians in the class).
Oh, and the Reverend of my church is an Atheist, btw;) -
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Batman Penetrates Buckingham Palace Security Live On TV.
by Englishman in.
this is not good for whomever designed the security system at the palace:.
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Cicatrix
"Where's Robin?"
He was there, but he got arrested.
This is certainly an interesting way to get one's message across:) -
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Rationalism and religion
by Narkissos ini've not been too good at creating topics thus far, but for my 1000th post (in case you wouldn't notice .
we often oppose reason (ratio) and belief, as if those were mutually exclusive.
reason always works from presuppositions.
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Cicatrix
"There may be something as a "gullible rationalism", within and without religion.
What do you think?"
I agree. We are what our minds/brains perceive the world to be. What's rational to one person may be totally irrational to someone else, or even to that same person when their perception of the world and their environment changes due to new experiences. Kind of "I think, therefore, I am."
When I joined the JWs, I was sixteen. I wanted to save the world, and I wanted all my answers to be black and white. Due to my limited experience, the WTS seemed to offer all of the above. As I lived my life, and added new experiences, that view no longer continued to be valid.
Now I'm not so fond of absolutes, lol.