Hi Boy,
Welcome to the board. Your theory about creativity is interesting. I am an artistic person, and I found that my creativity was very much discouraged when I became a JW. In fact, many of the articles in the Awake regarding those who had joined up with the JWs involve the person giving UP their artistic pursuits to honor Jehovah, instead of USING those gifts to honor him.
I did know a number of creatives who used art and music to find some kind of solace, but they were targetted and picked on if it was known by the congregation that they were doing so (with the exception of an elder's wife who was not bothered, and even painted pictures for the Kingdom Hall). It was often said that if they could find time to "sit around drawing or playing music", they could use that time "more productively" in the ministry. In one case, such harassment drove one young man I was aquainted with to plan suicide. Fortunately, my daughter and a friend of hers learned of his plan and notified his parents. He received counseling, quit going to meetings, and last I heard was editor of the school paper. Another JW woman I knew continued to write, but did so secretly.I quit all of my artistic pursuits for many years, but took up writing again as therapy to save my sanity when things started going bad and I was making my decision to leave. I only recently took up painting again.
All in all, Jehovah's Witnesses don't encourage their members to make anything but the field service a priority in their lives. Association with creative individuals is discouraged, probably partly because creatives often "march to the beat of their own drummer" and don't make good company people. The Watchtower society needs lots of company people who will go along with the corporate plan, and not rock the boat. Only the most cooperative corporate people (ie-those of "good standing") ever got to take part in the dramas. And after seeing several Broadway productions and lots of local productions, I don't think those "dramas" were very creative at all, now;)
Regards,
Cicatrix
Cicatrix
JoinedPosts by Cicatrix
-
10
jWs and creativity
by boy@crossroads inits seems to me over the years as a dub i have met some very creative (albeit eccentric) folks in the org.
whats your thoughts on this?
do you think that the structure of the jws makes people more creative?
-
-
Cicatrix
-
26
US Condemned over rights abuses
by Simon inthe organisation said america's offensive against global terrorism was "bankrupt of vision" and had "made the world a more dangerous place".
"sacrificing human rights in the name of security at home, turning a blind eye to abuses abroad and using pre-emptive military force where and when it chooses, have neither increased security nor ensured liberty," she said.. the world should have expected the shocking photographs of iraqi prisoners being tortured at abu ghraib prison in iraq, ms khan said.
"this is the logical consequence of the relentless pursuit of the war on terror since 11 september.
-
-
Cicatrix
"Western ideas and Islam are not compatable"
After listening to a panel of Muslims speak last weekend, I'd have to say that I agree with this. They seem to have wanted freedom from the regime of Saddam Hussein, but they are resistent to Western ideology regarding the rights of minority faiths and women. But then, I guess a lot of people in our society are,too.
I have to wonder, though, when these men, who were educated here in the US, are still maintaining that they have the right to treat their women as property, and that minority faiths cause nothing but trouble in their society, whether or not things will actually change in Iraq. If change does come, it will come very, very slowly, at a very great cost.
-
107
Well, ever think about leaving your mate for someone else ???
by run dont walk inthis should be interesting, .
how many of you have thought or have left your mate for someone else, was it worth it, or worth it that you stayed ???.
going through a difficult time right now, we've been together 15 years now, no kids, shes a couple years older then me.
-
-
Cicatrix
"my wifes looks are fading, as are mine, so i thought, i seem to have more opportunites in my late thirties, then i had during my teens and twenties put together, go figure, so guys there is always hope."
Gee, I wonder why she is being so possesive. Could it be by your body language and the things you say you are making her feel very insecure? You don't have to come right out and tell a woman that you are attracted to someone else for them to know.
-
34
Did you ever actually make a JW convert from the door-to-door work?
by True North inin all the years i went door to door as a jw, i never once had a study who went all the way to baptism.
in the thirty years i've know my wife -- who has been a jw all this time -- she has never made a single convert from going door to door either.
is this true of others on this forum?
-
-
Cicatrix
Nope. I turned all my "interested" return visits over to other people. I was constantly being lectured by brothers about being "careful" about the motives of interested men, seeing as I was "so attractive"(their words, not mine). So I turned them all over to brothers. And since I was working full time and raising a family, I turned the interested women over to pioneer sisters (there was not a whole lot of interest in our rural territory, so they were glad to have the calls).
The worst thing I ever did was cause an elderly lady to truly doubt her faith. She was very upset and confused, and said "I've believed this all my life, now what am I going to do?" I felt really bad. She was so happy with her faith, and so sure of it, til I showed up on her doorstep univited and "reasoned" with her.Here she was, facing death everyday, looking forward to her reward, and I had to go and show her the scriptures in her own Bible that said she wasn't going to meet her Lord right away. I was truly humbled, and lost all of my zeal for the door-to-door work after that, even though I continued to go throug the motions because I believed it was a requirement
-
17
An apology to you all...
by CeriseRose ini just finished commenting on minimus' thread (oh man, i hope it was his thread now...not enough coffee yet to be fully brained today...).
anyway, it was the thread on how everyone was choosing to leave/has left from the org.
i hate with a passion the fact that i was judged while in the wts.
-
-
Cicatrix
{{{{{Cerise Rose}}}}
Thanks for sharing your heartfelt feelings. I think most of us come to this realization after we leave. I learned that for me, it was not only due to being a JW, it was also a part of my family upbringing. That was quite a shock to realize that, but I'm glad I really understand now, because I can change things. I want to change things.
Isn't it great to be FREE!!
-
43
Finally the baby has arrived
by Lady Lee inmatthew alexander has made his grand entrance .
tues may 18 2004 at 11:07 pm .
9 lbs 10 oz .
-
-
Cicatrix
Congratulations, Lady Lee
Congrats on a job well done, Lady Lee's daughter
Welcome to the world, Matthew
-
11
Birthday and Coming Out Greetings! 40 years old and FIRST EVER PARTY
by EyeDrEvil inhey everybody,.
i wanted to let you all know that my wife's letter of da was announced last tuesday (5/11/05) .
we are having her first ever birthday celebration this weekend.
-
-
Cicatrix
Happy Birthday to youuuu, happy birthday to youuu, happy birthday, Mrs Eyedrevil, happy birthday to youuuu! And many, many more
-
21
Communication from the subconscious
by seattleniceguy init's been a while since i've posted here.
hope you all remember me!
in the final months before i left the organization, in the days before i consciously could accept that it was not the truth - indeed, before i could even entertain such a notion on the conscious level - my subconscious knew the truth, and it took to sending me ever stronger messages.
-
-
Cicatrix
Hi Seattle,
I remember you. Welcome back
I can relate very much to your experience. As I reached my breaking point a couple of years before I left, I developed a plethera of psychosomatic symptoms that grew increasingly worse over time. I had a constant low grade fever, migraines, and severe muscle pain. It gradually evolved into a total dissociation, in which I was driving down a road that I had taken thousands of times before and I had no idea where I was! I actually pulled off the road and sat for awhile, trying to remember where I was going and what I was going to do. This prompted me to take action and seek the help of a doctor, who helped me with the pain issue, and gently suggested that it may be a psychological problem that was plaguing me.
I was in deep denial at first, but over time I began to realize that the symptoms would intensify when I went to meetings, and go away when I skipped meetings for a couple of weeks. Then, a JW friend that I trusted told me about the Silent Lambs issue, and my whole perception began to shift. When I attended my last Memorial, I had an all out panic attack, and I knew then that I could never go to another meeting at the Kingdom Hall again. At first, I told myself that it was "the people, not the religion." I thought I could remain JW, and just not go to meetings. But over a few months, I realized that it was indeed the religion. I knew I had to leave, but it scared the crap out of me to even think about it. All sorts of thoughts of raced through my head. I really felt that I was letting God down, and I feared his dissapointment more than anything else in life (a pattern I later learned, that had more to do with my relationship to my parents than anything else).
I was a physical and emotional mess for awhile. I just couldn't deal with people-not even my own family. I spent a lot of time alone, walking and reflecting and writing in my journal.
One day, when I was walking, I realized that I had to make an official break with the org. The idea of leaving the only belief system that I really understood was terrifying, but I knew that if things kept going as they were, the stress was going to kill me. I actually prayed a really long prayer as I walked and cried, asking for God to give me some guidance, any guidance. I started running, as if I could run away from the intense pain I was feeling. Then I had a really strange experience.
I got a very clear picture in my mind of a young woman. She told me her name, and told me that everything was going to be okay. I am telling you-I was freaking by this point, yet somehow felt peaceful inside for the first time about my decision.
Over a period of three days, this woman appeared in my dreams, and continued to let me know that things were going to be okay. After that, I had to deal with feelings of being "disconnected," but I no longer felt the absolute terror that I had felt before.
At first, I thought this was something mystical, but as I look back on the experience, I believe that the woman was a manifestation of my subconscious, that helped me to be able to reason on a point that I couldn't consciously wrap my head around. The contradiction of a positive message from a Goddess figure, when I had been raised in a totally patriarchal ideology really broke through my dysfunctional belief system and made me start to think about how things really were, as opposed to what I wanted them to be. Especially since the only thing I knew about goddesses at that time was negative stuff I had heard at the meetings.
When I officially DAd, my physical symptoms got much worse for awhile, then gradually improved. Like you, I find they return when I deal with remnants of my JW mindset. I see them as a kind of warning system now, and try to find out what the trigger is, although sometimes I can't place my finger on it.
I've talked to people who have left other high control groups about this, and they relate the same kind of feelings-especially when they have to deal with ex-spouses and children who are still connected to the high control group, or with issues that are so contrary to their former indoctrination. The messages they give me repeatedly are: give it time-you didn't get this way overnight, continue to educate yourself, learn and practice critical thinking skills, and don't be so hard on yourself.
It's so hard to follow their advice! I'm a perfectionist by nature, and I've always thought I was in control of my thoughts and actions, including my involvement with the JWs. Yet so many others have commented on how unaware and unsure I am of my own abilities, I realize that I still have a long way to go. I am often paralyzed with fear, unable to take action because I'm afraid my actions might hurt other people ( a fear that was drummed into me not only by the religion, but by my family), yet I have a strong need to reach out and help others. I'm just not quite sure how to do it yet.
So I muddle on, trying to make sense of things. I'm reading lots, volunteering in the community in nonleadership roles, and doing lots of journaling. And giving it time. I was in for about twenty years. I've only been out for two, so I'm a baby yet, chronologically speaking.
It's funny-as I looked over this before I hit the post button, I got an incredible sense of guilt. I'm not sure if what I've posted will help you or not. I feel like I'm being self-centered, writing in the first person and not giving you direct advice. So many times, I've written posts like this, then not posted them. This time, I'm going to hit the post button.
If you get nothing else from this post-please know that you are not alone in your feelings.
-
42
If Puter can ask your Opinion.. Let me too..
by Sassy in.
well..............i have had my hair many colors........as my friends can attest.. today i went black...dark.. so.. what do you all think of the phases of juls.. which color works best on her???
here i am from black.. to blonde and brunettte to auburn.. .
-
-
Cicatrix
Hi Sassy,
It's nice to meet another "chameleon" lol. I like the darker colors on you better, the blonde seems to make you look washed out. I would LOVE to have the natural brunette coloring you have!!
I've been trying to get that color for years, but it's ends up very reddish every time I try, even when I use an ash color.I've tried leaving the medium ash browns on for a longer time, then my hair ends up almost black (I can't pull off black hair like you can) then fades to red in about two weeks (even using shampoo for colored hair)-arrggh!
For the past few years, I've been using Feria's "cherry cordial". It's a medium ash brown with red highlights. Unfortunately, as usual, my hair picks up the red more than the brunette.
I wish my hair would go white. I just love white hair. Although mine would probably just be more yellow than white, lol.
-
94
MEN ONLY- Freezing up at the Urinal!
by Funchback inwomen are invited to read this but they most certainly won't be able to relate.
i know there have to be a lot of men out there who can't pee while in a crowded public restroom (bathroom).
personally, the more people who surround me while i'm standing at the urinal, the more difficult it is for me to pee.
-
-
Cicatrix
Oh yes, I can relate. Every time I gave birth in a hospital, my labor would stop dead when I went through the front doors. It would take a good forty minutes for the contractions to start up again. All the exams and questions and people moving in and out of my room was very disconcerting.One time, I ended up with a doctor I hadn't even met during my prenatals (my doctor had lost his admitting privileges for some reason). It's a very odd feeling to have a male who is a stranger to you attend your birth.That's why my last two kids were born at home.