:I hear Democrats on T.V. screaming that I don't pay enough taxes,
Really? Which ones? When?
Julie
Posts by Julie
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13Republican or Democrat or Indie?
by slipnslidemaster infor all you american's on the board, are you a republican or democrat of independent?.
read http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=12506&site=3 for background.. seems like quite a few democrats here.. slipnslidemaster: "those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
- ben franklin
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13
Republican or Democrat or Indie?
by slipnslidemaster infor all you american's on the board, are you a republican or democrat of independent?.
read http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=12506&site=3 for background.. seems like quite a few democrats here.. slipnslidemaster: "those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
- ben franklin
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Julie
I disagree with your assessment of more Democrats.
That said, I do not belong to any party. I use to favor Republicans until I learned more about the Way Things Really Are. Horrible. I do harbor a few conservative views but I tend to see the Democrats winning most of the debates I catch on C-Span. I wish more people would keep up with what really goes on instead of relying on rhetoric and hyberpole in the press. A lot of misinformation out there.
Regards--
Julie -
81
OK, This is what I have to say
by peacepipe ini need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.
those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.
when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.
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Julie
Hi Brigette--
Good one. It is entertaining and effectively makes a valid point, excellent work.
I don't understand people who claimed that the bible was God's word and felt they could back it up by pointing to where it says so in the bible itself. I could write a book that says the same thing, so could anyone. If I wrote a book and was claiming it to be from God I would be inclined to provide a more Utopian existence to strive for instead of portraying hell-on-earth.
I enjoy your posts--
Julie -
69
Will YOU be the next dead American?
by Nathan Natas ini respectfully request that you take a few moments to read the following article, and i would appreciate hearing your responses.. - - - -.
future widows of america: write your congressman.
by ann coulter.
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Julie
I wonder if Ms. Coulter is native-American as her No Immigration attitude suggests.
This is a free country and what makes it great is the limitless sources from which we draw our citizens. Maybe if they tighten things up and enforce the laws we have the risk could be greatly reduced.
Take care all--
Julie -
81
OK, This is what I have to say
by peacepipe ini need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.
those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.
when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.
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Julie
Hi Penn,
When I said "I gotcha" I meant "I understand where you are coming from". I am not out to "get" anyone. Sorry for that misunderstanding.
:I do believe that was the original contention. Isaish 13 is a vision, recording what Isaiah sees in a yet future battle, and no God does not give His approval of rape. The revelation is of a future battle where God's wrath is poured out on Babylon, which can also be an idiom for the world. Isiah relates in his vision the raping of women and killing of children, but it is not ordained by God.
Am I much mistaken or isn't it God's People who are to carry out God's Wrath on the Babylonians? I am thinking that if God's spokesman is relating a vison of a battle that the Iraelites are to fight, and this vision includes horrible things happening to the enemies of the Israelites, would it not be a logical conclusion it is the Israelites that will DO these horrible things? If this vision is sent by God as a sort of sneak preview, wouldn't his followers think this was expected of them? Help me out here Penn.
:How could it be, when in the Torah God decrees that if a man is caught in the act of rape he is to be put to death.
Again, perhaps I am mistaken but from what I have read in the bible regarding things like indentured servants/slaves etc. special treatment is given to the "brothers" (like in WT-land) but I never see such courtesies ordered for "infidels". I don't think the Israelites and their God actually considered the others human. Much like racism today where some races consider others to be sub-human. Not so far fetched really. More common than I had realized but still terrible.
:I spent many hours answering questions a guy had (Moses is what he called himself) and after laboring to prove a point, he would just go on to something else, dangling the proverbial carrot in front of me as it were. And I was dilligent to give him answers, but the thing was, he never wanted answers, he just wanted to debate, and when he ran out of things to gripe about, he would go back to his first argument. I see that in you a bit, just that fact that you will keep pressing the issue over a few things in scripture, and ignore the overall message, the one that says we have broken God's laws and stand in judgement of Him.
Penn, basically the "answer" you gave me was justification and doubt. You doubt God would actually order such massacres and evil acts. You go on to explain how awful the other people were which would, I am guessing, justify the acts you doubt were ordered. So I get, "no it wasn't God" and then "but it was just". Is that some kind of red herring? I am not missing the overall message but tell me if I got it wrong. To me the message is "Do as we (God and his holy people) say or suffer this horrible fate." It is a simple message, hard to miss. Also hard to reconcile with God, the most enlightened creature of all. I have no intention of dangling carrots or anything else Penn, I really strive to understand how anyone could consider the God of the OT to be loving or enlightened, much less worthy of worship.
:I guess if you can keep a point in your mind that you cannot agree with, it helps to ease your conscience a bit about how you are not living for God.
"living for God"??? You must be joking. I don't have a bad conscience for "not living for God". I live to contribute to the greater good. I do what I can as an individual but most importantly, I am raising my kids with the idea that we are here to contribute to the greater good and that it is our biggest responsibility. I believe this so whole-heartedly that I never know a moment of doubt.
Penn, I do not believe the horrors in the bible are defensible. I have plenty of discussion here on some of those horrors. They are all the same. The woman who drove a tent stake through a guy's temples is "blessed among women in the tent" because her heart was filled with love of God at the time (so it's been explained to me). The annihilations, complete genocides, of others were either a.) never really ordered by God or b.) committed against such wretched people, they had it coming. The same believer here who has assured me there is no scripture condoning the equivalient of a jihaad also lamented the fact that if only the Crusaders had been able to complete their task we wouldn't have the problems we have today.
It is my view that believers are all over the map in their opinions/beliefs but the one common thread most have is that the atrocities in the bible are just though they cannot really explain it. It is then dismissed as a Mysterious part of God's reasoning and who are we to question? If the bible is to be taken as a book of instruction I have to wonder why God would provide a book that can only make the heart of a kind person sick. Why wouldn't God provide us with some enlightenment instead of constant reminders that we need to stay in line with many grotesque examples of your fate provided should you act up?
The bottom line to you is: "we have broken God's laws and stand in judgement of Him." To me it is puzzling that someone who is powerful enough to create the universe would create mankind for the sole purpose of worshipping him and devised horrible punishments for those who do not. Why would he need a planet of devout worshippers? Does God's ego need such stroking? Such a thing is really beyond my comprehension. I would welcome your views on this.
Take care--
Julie -
81
OK, This is what I have to say
by peacepipe ini need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.
those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.
when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.
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Julie
Alrighty Penn--
I gotcha. You were horrified at what is *really* in the bible and I still am. I do hope you will think twice though before you say such things as "There's nothing like that in the bible" and "God would never agree to such and such" cause I will be here to remind you otherwise.
I do not mind people promoting their faith, but it should be done honestly. Reasonable, yes?
Julie
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81
OK, This is what I have to say
by peacepipe ini need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.
those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.
when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.
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Julie
Hi Penn--
You said:
:And yes the Bible does record horrendous acts of mans depravity. It does not support them however!
This is an interesting statement. I assert otherwise.
:There is a difference!
Indeed there is.
:Show me a verse that says we should put children into slavery or rape women or any of those other things.
Okey dokey.
Isiah 13:15-16 (Here we have Isiah revealing a "vision" of instruction from God to his people on how to treat the Babylonians) Everyone that is found will be pierced through, and everyone that is caught in the sweep will fall by the sword; and their very children will be dashed to pieces before their eyes. Their houses will be pillaged, and their own wives will be raped.
Deuteronomy 20:11 And it must occur that if it gives a peaceful answer to you and has opened up to you, it must occur to you that all the people in it should become yours for forced labor, and they must serve you. ("all the people" is generally an all inclusive term so I am thinking the children of such a place would not be spared slavery)
There are boatloads of examples of God-ordered atrocities, rape and slavery seeming to be some of the milder ones.
:Are they in the Bible? Yes, because mankind loves darkness!
Oh I don't know Penn, seems to me the bible encourages such behavior. When you have the most enlightened being in the universe saying "Go and slaughter every living thing..." or "Slaughter the men and help yoursleves to the women and children..." one cannot help but wonder just where these "dark" ideas come from that you denounce so strongly. If the bible is God's word then we get plenty of "dark" instruction from God.
:Every human being, but especially the adult, prefers to keep on believing what he already believes, and to accept ideas only when they reinforce the ideas he already has. He tends, in other words, to become less and less intellectually curious and to have more and more of a closed mind as he grows older.
This is an interesting quote you include here. Sadly it is mostly true, but there are a lot of folks out here breaking that and other counter-productive cycles.
Julie
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81
OK, This is what I have to say
by peacepipe ini need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.
those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.
when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.
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Julie
Hi Tina,
:SO,I say we've come a long way. Just because a problem comes to the fore doesn't make it new. What's new is the wareness.
Good point Tina. I so disagree that this world is getting progressively worse. Because awareness is raised it might appear so though but that's not the case as you point out.
Cheers--
Julie -
15
"The Racism of American Warmongering"
by LDH infriends,.
this article was sent to us by one of my husband's best friends.
mississippi had the guilty parties been white boys with .
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Julie
Ah yes, racism--
The apex of hot topics. There is no doubt that racism exists and that it does play into international events. Absolutely.
I would like to point out though that many people of all colors have suffered though completely innocent.
The Tim McVeigh thing, sure if he'd have been black it may have been worse (retribution-wise) but leave us not forget how some white people have suffered unfairly too. As a child I lived in Detroit during the time of the race riots. It was a very tense time and there had been some nasty oppression. My grandpa, a doctor who helped many people who couldn't pay (yes even blacks), was beat almost to death by black men for the two bucks he had on him. His arm was in cast during that attack. My twin brother and I were robbed at knife-point by a bigger kid for our milk money when we were 6 (the child was black). It got to the point where my brother and I were getting knives pulled on us regularly, we were very little kids too. We lived close to where the riots broke out and fled the city in the middle of the night. We returned ten days later to find our property vandalized and Whitie Get Out spray painted on the house.
A few months later we joined the White Flight to the suburbs out of fear for our lives.
Yes, there is no doubt that when one or more people of any color commit injustices, there are many innocents who will pay, and this injustice knows no color boundries. Sorry.
Julie
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8
What Islamic Fundamentalists are really afraid of;
by Abaddon in... is women.
(from the daily telegraph, a british national paper).
in the next few days, our boys will be taking on the taliban, and we must all pray they succeed.
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Julie
:The U.S. still hasn't responded to a Taliban request for evidence either.
You must be joking!!! Have you ever tried to reason with a fundamentalist?? Go have a conversation with Rex and get back to me.
Evidence indeed. This is no court of law friend, this is the court of world opinion. Do you think the entire world is wrong and only the Taliban and bin Ladin are in the right?
What an absurdity.
Julie