Posts by Julie

67

God's image

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

we are made in god's image and he is a person, not just some invisible, omnipresent force.

here is some more research for those who love to ask questions yet won't do the digging.. the bible consistently portrays god as a passionate individual, whose inner experiences of love, compassion, grief, delight, joy, peace, anguish, and moral outrage at atrocity dwarf ours in the extreme.

the bible makes no apology for this, but rather exults in the living one, in contrast to the dead and lifeless idols that surrounded its writers.. one scholar put it thus:.

Julie

Sunstarr--

Thank you for your reply, yes, I agree that tolerance is important and I subscribe to it myself. I have no problem with people who believe in biblegod, that's yours, or anyone's perogative. I do have a problem with anyone who makes derogatory remarks toward those who do not believe as they do, and I don't necessarily refer to you here. Do know however that if you come onto a discussion board and make assertions you will likely be called to explain/back them up. All here are not likely to take your view as Unassailable Truth as they/we have learned enough lessons on that account.

Siegswife--

You tried to use that "laws" analogy with me but you were a bit less coherent last time I saw this argument from you (you remember, where you were telling me about your friend putting a gun to her kid's head and explaining what a "good mother" she was?). I do not agree with all the laws here or abroad. Many laws are baseless and/or founded on fear. While here in America our justice system has plenty of imperfections it's the picture of enlightenment compared to some laws in the bible. Take for instance the poor fellow who picked up sticks on Sunday, he will pay the same penalty as the fellow who killed his father on Monday (death, btw). This is ridiculous and absurd. There are countless laws like this throughout the bible. I am sorry if you have a problem with this but in my view, the person/being responsible for those laughable laws in the bible is about as unenlightened as you can get. Comparatively speaking America must be heaven compared to wherever such a lunatic would be in charge (and it sounds rather Taliban-ish so we could be talking Afghanistan).

The laws analogy is a poor one for building your case, I would latch onto another if I were you.

Julie

67

God's image

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

we are made in god's image and he is a person, not just some invisible, omnipresent force.

here is some more research for those who love to ask questions yet won't do the digging.. the bible consistently portrays god as a passionate individual, whose inner experiences of love, compassion, grief, delight, joy, peace, anguish, and moral outrage at atrocity dwarf ours in the extreme.

the bible makes no apology for this, but rather exults in the living one, in contrast to the dead and lifeless idols that surrounded its writers.. one scholar put it thus:.

Julie

Take it easy sunstarr--

Try not to get so worked up defending biblegod, it will get you nowhere. Let's face it there are many atrocities in the bible. It obviously irritates you that there are people who find such behavior unacceptable in other humans, much less a creature of enlightentment. Hey if you want to make excuses for this homicidal maniac that is your right. Don't claim that those of us who consider wholesale slaughter and countless sick acts to be unenlightened as ignorant people. We just aren't excusing barbarism as some sort of "mysterious wisdom" like you are willing to do.

I guess we all have different opinions of what goes under the Enlightened column.

You said:
That way, they will become........Jehovah's Witnesses! Julie...surely you don't think that isolation is the best way for God to train his people.

No, apparently biblegod thought the best way to "train" his people was to keep them persecuted and warring with their enemies. I don't think isolationism is the way to raise healthy, stable children. I think non-violence and tolerance are two key components though, two things your biblegod seems to be very strongly against.

I pity those who try to defend the indefensible--
Julie

67

God's image

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

we are made in god's image and he is a person, not just some invisible, omnipresent force.

here is some more research for those who love to ask questions yet won't do the digging.. the bible consistently portrays god as a passionate individual, whose inner experiences of love, compassion, grief, delight, joy, peace, anguish, and moral outrage at atrocity dwarf ours in the extreme.

the bible makes no apology for this, but rather exults in the living one, in contrast to the dead and lifeless idols that surrounded its writers.. one scholar put it thus:.

Julie

:What would you do with individuals who blatantly made themselves enemies of you and actively threatened the lives and health of your children?

When I see this justification for the wholesale slaughter in the bible it makes me wonder. Why didn't God just scoop up the Jews and plop them onto some other part of the Earth? Some unpopulated place? Maybe a place that was even nicer than that barren patch of desolate desert they're forever killing each other over?

Doesn't sound like a very powerful or magnificent being to me.

Julie

108

Comments? Black Slavery

by Naeblis in

jw
friends

found this article interesting.

what do you guys think?

it seems to be opposed topretty much everything i've read so far.. .

Julie

Hi Teejay--

Thanks for the info on funding for Israel. It does look as though some supposition is involved but it easy to believe the figure exceeds 3. I do not like it but with the huge Jewish voting block we have in the states do you think any politician is ever going to voice opposition? It would take a tidal wave of reaction from the public, never happen.

:No, you needn't point out that particular aspect of Black stupidity.

Oops! What did I actually say??? "I am sure I needn't point out the stupidity of such steps to the black community...". I think I was implying the black community was too *smart* to fall for such a self-serving act on the part of Cochran. Nothing at all about "black stupidity". What's that about?

:The real stupidity of the Black community is to think that anyone would even consider paying them for the blood, sweat and tears that their ancestors paid toward the formation of this country. I mean, other than black people, who cares about slavery today? I'm serious

Well as slavery is no longer practiced in America, I will admit that American slavery is rather low on my list of concerns. I have some thoughts on what should be done for the disadvantaged, wrote them earlier in the thread, here they are:

-----------------------------------------------
There is something that smacks of selfishness when it comes to the topic of a cash-settlement reparation. As I made clear earlier I am all for the government investing much more than they currently do into those of our citizens who are truly underpriveldeged, again, no matter their color. We don't put nearly enough resources into education of both parents and children. There has to be more opportunity for these people but they also have to be prepared for the opportunity (i.e. educated and healthy). Now I don't narrow this down to blacks because the fact is there are underprivledged people of all color--no matter what your view this is a fact.

Not only would significant investments in communities benefit those alive today but if done right could benefit many generations to come. Long term results. That is not a characteristic I see even remotely guaranteed with a cash pay-out style of reparation.
-----------------------------------------------

You said:
I just figured that if taxpayers had no problem paying two dollars every month, why make a fuss over one more quarter? Millions would, and that's my point. And THAT is my question. Why????

On the dough that is shelled out, it is all part of a greater problem in our system and the answer is painfully simple: apathy.

About more of the dough being shelled out, easy again, too much "I got mine you get yours". Plus, there needs to be agreement on what form you take, cash pay-out bad, community building projects good.

That's my take.

Julie

67

God's image

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

we are made in god's image and he is a person, not just some invisible, omnipresent force.

here is some more research for those who love to ask questions yet won't do the digging.. the bible consistently portrays god as a passionate individual, whose inner experiences of love, compassion, grief, delight, joy, peace, anguish, and moral outrage at atrocity dwarf ours in the extreme.

the bible makes no apology for this, but rather exults in the living one, in contrast to the dead and lifeless idols that surrounded its writers.. one scholar put it thus:.

Julie

Norm--

Do you ever feel bad? I mean like shooting fish in a barrel isn't it? Sometimes it is so easy I *almost* feel guilty. I am becoming convinced that if I looked up the word Lemming I would find a picture of WW.

Take care-
Julie

108

Comments? Black Slavery

by Naeblis in

jw
friends

found this article interesting.

what do you guys think?

it seems to be opposed topretty much everything i've read so far.. .

Julie

Help me to get some facts straight here---anyone. I am under the impression that we give Israel $3 Billion a year in aid. Is this correct? (I am against meal tickets to Israel, Jews are a large voting block in US though so good luck finding a politician to voice opposition)

If this is the case then I wonder about the math being applied here. Is it the White House's "new math"?

Where do we get $2 a month for aid to Israel and .25 for reparations on the slavery issue? Didn't I see somewhere in this thread Johnnie Cochran has filed a trillion dollar lawsuit against US for reparation? Of course I am sure I needn't point out the stupidity of such steps to the black community (i.e. Cochran would take 1/3 off the top of any settlement, really lessening the reparation).

I guess the bottom line here is where are these figures coming from? At .25 a month (per taxpayer) what sort of settlement are you talking?

If more people would forget the reparation approach and take a broader approach, as in demanding and lobbying for some serious community funding (especially education), we'd all be better off. Until the view is broadened we will continue to go nowhere.

Julie

51

Afghan Women under Taliban

by Tina in

jw
friends

for those who might be interested in the plight, public murder,bride-price, of women who live under talibans terroriistic fundamentalism........ warning!

graphic photos.. http://rawa.fancymarketing.net/women.html.

carl sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny..."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense-you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones.

Julie

Greetings to all:

Rex, you first since we are becoming so "close"...

:Just think, if those terrible Crusaders had completely vanquished Islam, your sisters would not be relegated to second class status.

Ah yes, if only the Christians could have been more effecient at killing others! Well what can we do but kick ourselves now? I think you should be committed to a hospital you maniac.

Six-of-nine:

Friend, you waste your time with Shelby. She is even more slippery, dishonest and irrational than Rex. Toss in "delusional" and there you have it--the biggest waste of time known to man; trying to reason with Shelby.

To All--

Indead that special on life in Afghanistan was aired last night on CNN at 11 pm. It will air again tonight at 7 pm. I urge anyone who can to watch it. It is very powerful and well worth watching. It is called Beneath the Veil; Undercover in Afghanistan.

Always horrified by man's inhumanity to (wo)man--

Julie

5

Abject Ignorance

by Amazing in

jw
friends

englishman's post about why america is so hated reminded me of what my brother experienced in the country of turkey.

and maybe this will add to the layers of reasons why some people, especially in the middle east see us through the eye of hate created by the filters of ignorance.. abject ignorance also plays a role.

during the cold war, my brother worked for the army security agency (asa), the intelligence branch of the army that works closely with the nsa (national security agency).

Julie

Thanks Amazing--

Most enlightening. You know should concern all of us is this; there are plenty of radical fundies in Christendom who would have things the same way. In their eyes that is 'the good ol' days". Doubt me? Read some of Rex's blather.

Julie

44

Questions="dishonest baiting"?

by Julie in

jw
friends

three little scriptures that i feel reflect the opposite of all that christians claim biblegod to be.

i merely asked a hard-core defender of the faith to justify these as actions of an all-loving, enlightened supreme being.

here they are along with the "explanations" of them (in a nutshell):.

Julie

Hi Siegswife,

:There you go again. You know NOTHING about my friend. She has always been very small and learned from a young age to defend herself against attack.

I have the same story and would never pull a gun on my own child. Of course I don't even own a gun because I'm not a violent person and I don't go hunting.

:Was she wrong?

Yes.

:Was she wrong for having a gun in her house?

Not if it is licensed and all legal, it is her right. Sorry to hear she is so quick to use it.

:What is it with atheist anyway? They don't believe in the existance of a God, which means in essence, that we are all god unto ourselves. Yet they use their own conscience to judge someone else.

I merely explained how it works, the whole children learning violence thing. You told a story and I shared with you what research shows about such behavior. I held such views as I hold now of child rearing while I was a Catholic too. The one thing I haven't changed is my belief that violence has no place in the lives of children. It's not righteous (self or otherwise) thinking, it's enlightened.

:Do you seek to be god of the world? If you don't, where do you get off judging another 'god' for the decisions they make?

No I seek to be no one's god, I feel no urge to inspire worship for myself. I have learned a more enlightened way to raise children. I have applied what I learned to my own parenting efforts and have had excellent results. It's as though I did my own case studies. Glad I did, especially after I hear stories like those you shared with us. I realize the effort was well worth it.

As for judging "another 'god'"--I will guess you are referring to various threads where gruesome bible stories are discussed?? Yes, I have a problem with a god who would commit/condone/order wholesale slaughter and countless various sick acts. Don't you? I consider such a being anything but enlightened. That is my view, you are of course free to worship such a god as you please.

:If you are adhering to the laws of the land, does that mean the you are in agreement and adhere to all the manmade laws that exist? And if you do, does that mean that the people that make these laws have some superior grasp on the world that they can make laws that should be agreeable to everyone? It sounds confused to me.

I really do not have any idea just what it was you were trying to say here.

Julie

44

Questions="dishonest baiting"?

by Julie in

jw
friends

three little scriptures that i feel reflect the opposite of all that christians claim biblegod to be.

i merely asked a hard-core defender of the faith to justify these as actions of an all-loving, enlightened supreme being.

here they are along with the "explanations" of them (in a nutshell):.

Julie

Yes, violence is a learned behavior. Maybe your friends never hit the girl but with the way that woman didn't hesitate to whip out a gun on her daughter, she obviously has violent tendancies. One can merely witness violence to learn it, no need to be subjected to it. As to the boy, not only has he learned violence but it sounds like is an angry child as well. Definite problem for society in-the-making there. The saddest part of it is there are so many more than the two obvious examples you set forth Siegswife.

How sad for us all--

Julie