God's image

by Rex B13 67 Replies latest jw friends

  • Rex B13
    Rex B13

    We are made in God's image and He is a person, not just some invisible, omnipresent force. Here is some more research for those who love to ask questions yet won't do the digging.

    The Bible consistently portrays God as a passionate individual, whose inner experiences of love, compassion, grief, delight, joy, peace, anguish, and moral outrage at atrocity dwarf ours in the extreme. The Bible makes no apology for this, but rather exults in the Living One, in contrast to the dead and lifeless idols that surrounded its writers.

    One scholar put it thus:
    "The Bible speaks unashamedly of Yahweh's passion, presenting him as an intense and passionate Being, fervently interested in the world of humans. Not only is there no embarrassment on the part of the OT at Yahweh's possession of emotion, but rather, it is celebrated (see for example, 2 Sam 22:8, 9, 16; Ps 145:8). In fact, his passion guarantees not only that he is intensely interested in the world but that he is a person. This in turn opens up the possibility for communion at the heart of the universe. Therefore, his passion was seen to be continually linked with the implementation of his resolve, and in this, interaction with the world. The God of the OT desired fellowship and interaction with the other persons in his world, and his anger was seen to be part of the actualization of that desire.

    [This, I might add, is so fundamental to understanding the bible (and knowing God, obviously!)--although rarified versions of systematic and/or philosophical theology have been (and, are still) known to hold to varied forms of an 'impassible god'.

    For all the emotions I can think of, the bible takes the position that such emotions can be appropriate responses to situations OR inappropriate responses to situations (when the emotion is deliberately sustained, of course). Pity can be quite inappropriate (e.g., when it is the dominant emotion controlling how one deals with active, willful, violent oppressors, instead of for those being victimized by them), and outrage can be quite appropriate in situations of moral and human atrocity (e.g., child abuse, rape, violent crimes against the elderly, vandalism against the poor, extortion of the helpless).

    Likewise, the Bible argues that (like us people) emotions are not 'mutually exclusive and exhaustive' at any given moment. Just as my mom could have felt affection, anger, compassion, frustration, confusion, helplessness, hopefulness and despair(!)--ALL AT THE SAME MOMENT--when I was still a teenager living in her home (embarrassed grin), so too can we and so too can God. God is frequently described in these terms in the Prophets--His love for His people Israel (compassion and affection) is simultaneously experienced by Him as His anger (at their intra-Israel atrocities) and His hopefulness (that they will 'wake up' to treating one another better, in keeping with the Covenant contract they "signed" together as a community!). Hosea 11:8ff is so very vivid (and moving) in showing the struggles in the heart of God. There is no intrinsic contradiction in ascribing multiple emotional states to a person, since we consistently experience these in our lives. And God, as a Person, is apparently no different in that respect...

    For example, God is said to be "angry with the wicked every day." Since "wickedness," in biblical terms, is generally related to treachery, atrocity, and oppression, I would HOPE God would be disturbed by this. But at the same time, the Bible says that God is "patient" with them (hoping they will 'come around' and re-join the community in love and contribution) and even "nurturing" (i.e., leading them/influencing them in that direction). His moral anger at personal evil, of course, has nothing to do with Him being 'caught off guard' or surprised by it (!), since His response is the treachery involved--NOT the circumstances of it. Even my experience illustrates this aspect. I know quite well that in the future I will read (yet another) story of human atrocity, be it on an individual scale (such as rape, child abuse, or brutalization) or group scale (such as ethnic violence, religious persecution, or economic exploitation), so there is no element of 'surprise' in my response when I actually encounter the story. I KNOW I will be upset when I read it...

  • kes152
    kes152

    We are made in God's image

    Actually, we are in Adam's rebellious image.

    Peace,
    Aaron

  • comment
    comment

    Amazing how such an all-wise, all-powerful, all-loving Person can behave like such a vindictive child in the pages of his own Handbook for Mankind. (Numbers 21:6) If in doubt, kill! Uzzah and the poor guy gathering sticks on the Sabbath certainly found that out.

    Jehovah...Mr. Personality.

    comment

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    Well, that's fine, just make sure you don't confuse the order - it's supposed to be that man is made in God's image, not the other way around. One problem is how you understand God as a person. All the other persons you know are humans, so isn't that really the basis for people's understanding of what a person is? Is it possible that it is simply a human need to understand God as a person rather it being in fact the true nature of God? That would be a "personal need" wouldn't it?

  • Norm
    Norm

    Our resident Bible-twit bleated thus:

    We are made in God's image and He is a person, not just some invisible, omnipresent force. Here is some more research for those who love to ask questions yet won't do the digging.

    And then he proceeded to post more cut and paste fundy drivel, which he out of some extremely misguided notion imagine is “research”.

    The Bible consistently portrays God as a passionate individual, whose inner experiences of love, compassion, grief, delight, joy, peace, anguish, and moral outrage at atrocity dwarf ours in the extreme. The Bible makes no apology for this, but rather exults in the Living One, in contrast to the dead and lifeless idols that surrounded its writers.

    One wonders in vain how anyone who have the slightest knowledge of the Bible can produce such complete nonsense. Let us take a look at some of the Bible’s documentation of what kind of an entity God is. I bet you will all marvel at the immense display of love shown in these texts:

    *** Rbi8 Numbers 31:7-9 ***
    And they went waging war against Mid'i•an, just as Jehovah had commanded Moses, and they proceeded to kill every male. 8 And they killed the kings of Mid'i•an along with the others slain, namely, E'vi and Re'kem and Zur and Hur and Re'ba, the five kings of Mid'i•an; and they killed Ba'laam the son of Be'or with the sword.

    *** Rbi8 Numbers 31:14-18 ***
    17 And now kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has had intercourse with man by lying with a male. 18 And preserve alive for yourselves all the little ones among the women who have not known the act of lying with a male.

    *** Rbi8 Judges 21:10-12 ***
    10 Hence the assembly proceeded to send twelve thousand of the most valiant men there and to command them, saying: “Go, and YOU must strike the inhabitants of Ja'besh-gil'e•ad with the edge of the sword, even the women and the little ones. 11 And this is the thing that YOU should do: Every male and every woman that has experienced lying with a male YOU should devote to destruction.” 12 However, they found out of the inhabitants of Ja'besh-gil'e•ad four hundred girls, virgins, that had not had intercourse with a man by lying with a male. So they brought them to the camp at Shi'loh, which is in the land of Ca'naan.

    *** Rbi8 Judges 18:1 ***
    18 In those days there was no king in Israel. And in those days the tribe of the Dan'ites was looking for an inheritance for itself to dwell there; because up to that day an inheritance had not fallen to them in the midst of the tribes of Israel.

    *** Rbi8 Judges 18:7 ***
    7 Accordingly the five men went on and came to La'ish and saw how the people that were within it were dwelling in self-reliance according to the custom of the Si•do'ni•ans, quiet and unsuspecting, and there was no oppressive conqueror that was molesting a thing in the land, while they were far off from the Si•do'ni•ans and they had nothing to do with mankind.

    *** Rbi8 Judges 18:27-28 ***
    27 As for them, they took what Mi'cah had made and the priest that had become his, and they kept going toward La'ish, against a people quiet and unsuspecting. And they proceeded to strike them with the edge of the sword, and the city they burned with fire. 28 And there was no deliverer, for it was far away from Si'don, and they had nothing at all to do with mankind; and it was in the low plain that belonged to Beth-re'hob. Then they built the city and took up dwelling in it.

    *** Rbi8 Psalm 101:8 ***
    8 Every morning I shall silence all the wicked ones of the earth,
    To cut off from the city of Jehovah all the practicers of what is hurtful.

    We are probably all familiar with the discrimination that handicapped people are facing every day. But those who are looking down on handicapped and disabled people need not have any bad conscience on that account. They are in the best of company. Such people make even God cringe:

    *** Rbi8 Leviticus 21:17-23 ***
    17 "Speak to Aaron, saying, 'No man of your seed throughout their generations in whom there proves to be a defect may come near to present the bread of his God. 18 In case there is any man in whom there is a defect, he may not come near: a man blind or lame or with his nose slit or with one member too long, 19 or a man in whom there proves to be a fracture of the foot or a fracture of the hand, 20 or hunchback or thin or diseased in his eyes or scabby or having ringworms or having his testicles broken. 21 Any man of the seed of Aaron the priest in whom there is a defect may not approach to present Jehovah's offerings made by fire. There is a defect in him. He may not approach to present the bread of his God. 22 He may eat the bread of his God from the most holy things and from the holy things. 23 However, he may not come in near the curtain, and he may not approach the altar, because there is a defect in him; and he should not profane my sanctuary, for I am Jehovah who is sanctifying them.'”

    Aren’t you all impressed with this “passionate” and “loving” God.

    One scholar put it thus:
    "The Bible speaks unashamedly of Yahweh's passion, presenting him as an intense and passionate Being, fervently interested in the world of humans. Not only is there no embarrassment on the part of the OT at Yahweh's possession of emotion, but rather, it is celebrated (see for example, 2 Sam 22:8, 9, 16; Ps 145:8). In fact, his passion guarantees not only that he is intensely interested in the world but that he is a person. This in turn opens up the possibility for communion at the heart of the universe. Therefore, his passion was seen to be continually linked with the implementation of his resolve, and in this, interaction with the world. The God of the OT desired fellowship and interaction with the other persons in his world, and his anger was seen to be part of the actualization of that desire.

    Indeed the Bible does. The word “passionate” is of course a much nicer way of describing the insane homicidal maniac God the Bible tell us about. Human butchers like Hitler and Stalin was also very “passionate” individuals and thus also murdered millions of people in the grip of their “passion”, but of course compared with God, the main source of death, they are all amateurs. The quote from this “Scholar” is a breathtaking example of Christian excusogetics in the extreme. Genocide, ethnic cleansing, gruesome mass slaughter and other perversions carried out at the command of this God are covered or sanitized in the age old Christian way by simply calling it something else. This must be one of the most lame posts you have ever made, Rex. You seem to be unable to understand the most simple things Rex.

    Norm.

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1

    Norm, with a loving god like that, it makes the Taliban look like a boys club.

    resident Bible-twit


    Interesting choice of words.

    "Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

  • Julie
    Julie

    Norm--

    Do you ever feel bad? I mean like shooting fish in a barrel isn't it? Sometimes it is so easy I *almost* feel guilty. I am becoming convinced that if I looked up the word Lemming I would find a picture of WW.

    Take care-
    Julie

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    rex

    he is angry at evil, yet he creates evil, yet is not evil. is he only angry at other entities' evil, but not his own evil that he created? what about the evil created by the evil that he created, is he angry at that?

    I think it's in isaiah, but since i'm lazy, and you are doing the research, i'll let you find the chapter and verse.

    S

  • sunstarr
    sunstarr

    Norm,

    I'd like to ask you a question. What would you do with individuals who blatantly made themselves enemies of you and actively threatened the lives and health of your children? You're right, God should just roll over and take it up the butt. That would be the way to show them that he's the true God. Yes, everyone wants to worship a weakling god who can't protect his own people. Sign me up! Most importantly, God should never do anything that you don't fully agree with or completely understand, because let's face it, you've got it all figured out. How dare the Creator of the universe do something that is outside the scope of human reasoning! Yes, thank you for your wonderful insight. Maybe next time you can wait until you've achieved godhood to sit in judgment of his actions.

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    Sunstar,

    That was magnificent!

    Good beautiful and clear!

    If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

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