Comments? Black Slavery

by Naeblis 108 Replies latest jw friends

  • Naeblis
    Naeblis

    Found this article interesting. What do you guys think? It seems to be opposed topretty much everything I've read so far.

    Slavery isn't just the West's burden
    By PETER WORTHINGTON -- Toronto Sun
    Putting the horrific attack on United States aside for a moment, it's tempting to call the recent UN conference on racism (and assorted sins) that was held in South Africa, useless. But that's too gentle an assessment.

    It was worse than useless. It was malicious, bigoted, racist, deceitful and factually wrong.

    Still, there's a world-wide thrust for those of European stock - i.e. the white race - to apologize and/or pay reparations for slavery of the past.

    Johnnie Cochran, the lawyer who got O.J. Simpson acquitted, now has a $1-trillion lawsuit against the U.S. on behalf of blacks whose ancestors were slaves.

    This is a blunt gambit for money by exploiting guilty consciences, something Canada's Indians successfully manage - the latest being a claim the B.C. Legislative building in Victoria, B.C. was built on Indian lands for which no rent was paid and which is now demanded retroactively. Absurd.

    When it comes to slavery, misconceptions reign.

    Europeans - whites - have literally nothing to apologize for. On the contrary, blacks whose ancestors were slaves, should feel enormous gratitude to the British and Europeans who ended the practice of slavery - which we all agree was (and is) an abomination. A sorry reality is that slavery is still illicitly practised in parts of Africa, like Sudan.

    Historically, for thousands of years, slavery was practised by every society, without any moral doubts or concerns. Andrew Kenny points out in the British Spectator that "slavery has been a universal feature of all societies throughout most of history" and every person alive today has ancestors who were either slaves or slave-owners.

    Only the white race sought to end it. England abolished slavery on its soil in 1722, and in 1833 banned it throughout the British Empire. The Royal Navy was used to curtail the exportation of slaves from Africa to America.

    What is never mentioned in the drive for reparations in the U.S. and at UN conferences, is that slavery was a "cultural reality" throughout Africa itself, before the continent was slowly colonized.

    Europeans did not have to raid African villages for slaves; African chiefs eagerly sold other Africans into slavery - mostly to Arab slave dealers who resold them to whoever would buy.

    A wretched life

    When Muhammad Ali fought George Foreman in Zaire, one of Foreman's entourage kissed the ground as he left and thanked God that his ancestors were taken to America as slaves, otherwise he'd have been born in Africa and condemned to a wretched life compared to what he had in America.

    Liberia, as corrupt a backwater as any in Africa, was established basically as a home for ex-slaves who wanted to return to Africa. Run by former slaves, Liberia excelled in corruption and racism. Ex-slave rulers considered African-born as inferior, exploited the country (behaviour learned from former white masters?) and practised racism.

    Canada's Haida Indians practiced slavery until the white man came, as did other West Coast Indians - but you'd never know it from the rantings of the likes of First Nations paramount Chief Matthew Coon Come who lives on the federal gravy train and spouts racist half-truths.

    Slavery was a lucrative business in Africa long before Europeans arrived. Arab slave dealers force-marched their human "property" north to be sold throughout the Middle East. Black males were sought for castration to work in harems of the rich.

    Some have pointed out that in this age of "cultural equivalency," where all cultures are supposedly equally deserving of respect, and "morality" is flexible according to its cultural context, it can be argued that societies we call "civilized" were wrong to interfere with the profitable slave trade which benefited African economies.

    If slavery is still tolerated in parts of Africa, how about the "cultural" practice of mutilating women's sexual organs, which most people deplore, yet continues unabated?

    South Africa's ANC government is consumed with white racism - blaming it for all ills, like rampant crime (it's the most dangerous country in Africa), unemployment, even AIDS.

    As for slavery, Andrew Kenny's research reveals African delegations visiting London and Paris in the 19th century urging that slavery not be outlawed, and that it was vital for the African economy.

    One chief noted: "We want three things - powder, balls, brandy - and we have three things to sell - men, women and children."

    Taking an overview, the U.S. government should treat the issue of paying reparations for its slave-holding past rather as we treat the Flat Earth Society - with derision and some humour.

    As morally repugnant as slavery is, it was western civilization alone, comprised of whites, which decided it was morally, ethically, pragmatically wrong, and must be ended.

    For that, America's black people should give thanks - not protest for money. If they want to accord blame - blame those Arabs and black Africans who sold their ancestors as chattel.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  • LDH
    LDH
    This is a blunt gambit for money by exploiting guilty consciences, something Canada's Indians successfully manage - the latest being a claim the B.C. Legislative building in Victoria, B.C. was built on Indian lands for which no rent was paid and which is now demanded retroactively. Absurd.

    I wonder how the author would feel if someone came and built buildings on land that his family had lived on and owned for hundreds of years? Exploiting guilty consciences? That is outrageous.

    Europeans did not have to raid African villages for slaves; African chiefs eagerly sold other Africans into slavery - mostly to Arab slave dealers who resold them to whoever would buy.

    I AM GOING TO SAY THIS SLOWLY, FOR THE LAST TIME. THE AFRICANS WHO WERE SOLD INTO SLAVERY WERE CRIMINALS. THE VILLAGE CHEIFTANS SAW A WAY TO BOTH PUNISH THE CRIMINAL AND MAKE MONEY FOR THE VILLAGE. Decades later, there weren't enough criminals to keep up with the demand for cheap slave labor, thus began the exploitation of Africans.

    Since they could no longer buy the Africans they wanted, they began taking them without permission. At that time, it is recorded the village cheiftans wept and regretted they had ever sold their fellow man into slavery in the first place.

    Johnnie Cochran, the lawyer who got O.J. Simpson acquitted,

    This tells me all I need to know about the author. Johnnie C did NOT get OJ acquitted. The jury process, 12 peers, acquitted him. What a retard.

    As morally repugnant as slavery is, it was western civilization alone, comprised of whites, which decided it was morally, ethically, pragmatically wrong, and must be ended.

    What a fool this man is. The majority of white Americans had no problem with slavery. Only a brave few spoke out against it. You know their names as well as I. The rest of humanity was content to continue slavery for as long as possible.

    OK Naeblis sorry I can't read anymore of this ass-munch's treatise.

    The bottom line is, slavery has ALWAYS existed. In this country, however, great masses of wealth were built by systematically removing any vestige of the slaves ancestry. to the point that black Americans don't even know from what part of Africa they hail.

    Slavery in the dark continent is not the CRUEL and inhumane treatment that American slavery came to be noted for. Why, many people sold themselves into slavery to relieve they debt their families or tribes owed. The form of slavery that the rest of the world knew was NOT what Africans received on the trip over.

    This man is a fool, and I leave him to God to judge.
    I have already made up my mind.

    Lisa

  • Naeblis
    Naeblis

    Thanks. Was wondering what the counter points would be. Anyone else want to take a stab at this?

  • bigboi
    bigboi
    As morally repugnant as slavery is, it was western civilization alone, comprised of whites, which decided it was morally, ethically, pragmatically wrong, and must be ended.

    As LDH mentioned, they only ended their version of slavery and only because(in America at least) because Abraham Lincoln thought it was a good watr strategy. After "freeing" their slaves, new more insidious ways were found to oppress them and deny them their rights. Most prominent among these being Jim Crow Laws of the Southern US.

    Also the theft of the heritage and culture of the African slaves is the most enduring effect. Even Native Americans have at least a semblance of their history and their ancestors cultures. Mostly through passed down oral traditions and the efforts of archeaologists. African Americans pasts have been almost totally erased because of the dehumanizing effect of Western slavery.
    Slaves were not permitted to be educated and a good education was basically denied the vast majority of Blacks in this country. The Black community is still suffereing from this today no doubt.

    It's been only roughly, 136 yrs since slaves were "freed". It's been roughly 40 yrs since African Americans were assured (at least legally)that their rights would be protected under law. Given the roughly 400yrs of slavery and erasing of a ppl's culture and the denial of their God-given rights as members of not only this nation, but the whole of Western Civilzation...... well I think ya get the point I'm trying to make. Japanese-Americans were given reparations for a few yrs of internment that violated their civil rights. Their experince in my opinion and from an objective view of the facts pale in comparison.

    ONE....

    bigboi

    "life's a bitch a with a g-string and a twelve pack of Busch."

  • drahcir yarrum
    drahcir yarrum

    Heck yes, take more of my hard earned money that has been extracted from me in taxes and throw it down a hole called reparations.

    When the checks are cut, will blacks sign a statement that says, "Now we are even. We will shut up about the slavery that a few of our forefathers suffered at the hands of people who lived almost 200 years ago?" Will blacks give up their victim status? Will white people with too much time on their hands get over their feelings of guilt for being white and well off? Will the increasing number of successful black business people, professionals and academics donate their reparation checks to charity or return them to the government?
    Will the reparation checks lower the rate of illegitimate and teen pregnancies in the black community? Will the reparation checks demonstrably change the plight of inner city black communities?

    Whites and blacks alike know that reparations are nothing more than a bullshit scam to reward people for the genetic skill of being born black. And next we can cut government checks for gays, Hispanics, American Indians and while we're at it, how about females? Haven't they all got legitimate bitches with America?

    Are you people who want this fucking nuts?

  • teejay
    teejay

    Hello, drahcir yarrum,

    Interesting questions.

    As counterpoint, I urge you to check out http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/010201/0101015.html

    Quote:
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    A Conservative Total for U.S. Aid to Israel: $91 Billion -- and Counting
    By Shirl McArthur

    The common figure given for U.S. aid to Israel is $3 billion per year--$1.2 billion in economic aid and $1.8 billion in military aid. As impressive as this figure is, however, since it represents about one-sixth of total U.S. foreign aid, the true figure is even more remarkable. It is difficult, however, to arrive at an exact number. Much of the money the U.S. gives Israel is buried in the budgets of other government agencies, primarily the Defense Department (DOD). Other subsidies come in a form that isn?t easily quantifiable, such as the early disbursement of aid, which allows Israel to gain (and the U.S. taxpayer to lose) the interest on the unspent money.

    This year?s appropriations bills for FY 2001, which began Oct. 1, 2000, include, in addition to the $2.82 billion in economic and military foreign aid to Israel, an additional $60 million in so-called refugee resettlement and $250 million in the DOD budget, plus $85 million imputed interest, for a total of at least $3.215 billion. In addition, on Nov. 14, 2000, President Clinton sent a special request to Congress for an additional $450 million in military aid to Israel in FY 2001, plus $350 million for FY 2002.

    Unquestionably, Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. aid since World War II.

    [end, bold mine]

    I don't know about you, Drahcir (may I call you "Drahcir"?), but I really REALLY wonder what makes Israel worth some $5 billion a year and why $91 billion of our tax dollars have been GIVEN to them since WWII.

    I wonder how many buildings Israelis help build in the Capitol district of Washington D.C. or what role they played in the foundation of the country.

    I wonder about whatever happened to the U.S. governments promise to help freed slaves to get on their feet.

    Don't you?

    There's a bunch more questions I could ask, but I must hurry out of this thread.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    Lisa and Bigboi,

    This is only my opinion, so take it for what it's worth, and NOT personally...

    ... I think you both need long, hot, hard showers for stepping into the cesspool that is this thread. And before you suggest it, I'm headed there now my own damn self.

    peace,
    tj

  • Naeblis
    Naeblis

    Cesspool? I saw an article that seemed one sided and thought I'd ask for opinions. Cesspool may be a bit harsh :P

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    Tj:

    I think you both need long, hot, hard showers for stepping into the cesspool that is this thread. And before you suggest it, I'm headed there now my own damn self.

    I'm feeelin you on that one. My first instinct was to not post to it because the article quoted was full of far right-wing innuendo. I noticed it presented no legitimate stats or quotes to support it's "thesis", but I thought I'd reply to it anyway. Hell, it can't hurt much and I think it's important to get to see various viewpoints on an issue. No matter how unreasonable and hypocritical they are.

    ONE....

    bigboi

    p.s. Naeblis where did you find this article?

    "life's a bitch a with a g-string and a twelve pack of Busch."

  • Naeblis
    Naeblis

    From the Toronto Sun. It's not really regarded as a "serious" newspaper but it has a good sports section so if I see it lying around I'll read it :P Saw the article and it struck me as pretty extreme. Just wanted some reactions. Didn't think I had to but just to clarify these aren't my views.

  • drahcir yarrum
    drahcir yarrum

    We pay almost $3billion in foreign aid to Egypt too. We are making foreign aid payments in the amount of about $70 billion annually to numerous countries. What does that have to do with handing out free money to Americans just because their skin is black. Black Americans who have, by the way not lived one day as a slave. Blacks who even in bad inner city conditions, have a standard of living higher than the worlds poor.

    I suppose the uneducated aren't aware that protestant religious leaders in the northeast United States began pressuring the government early in the 1800's and earlier to make slavery illegal in this country. Slavery was not universally accepted even in the south. Most farmers in the south could not afford slaves and most didn't own them. Slaves were the possession of the very wealthy plantation owners who weren't that numerous compared to the general population. As we look backwards it's easy to see that slavery was immoral. But my great great grandfather came to this country from Ireland as an indentured servant. People used to put notes on their employment bulletins that said "Irish Need Not Apply". So, get over your myopic view that blacks are the only people treated badly in the history of the world and in the history of this country specifically. Most of you watched the mini series "Roots" one too many times.

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