Posts by jst2laws

7

False Prophets

by OldSoul in

*** it-2 p. 681 presumptuousness ***.

disrespect for god's sovereignty.

of the false prophets, jehovah said: "the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that i have not commanded him to speak ... that prophet must die.... when the prophet speaks in the name of jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, ... with presumptuousness the prophet spoke it.

jst2laws

OldSoul,

Good reasoning as ussual.

"Correcting" themselves later does not suddenly convert them into true prophets

Excellent. They still spoke falsely.

According to Deuteronomy, they do not have to claim to be prophets. They merely have to speak in Jehovah's name about future events that do not come true.

This is a good point despite the fact that they DID claim to be prophets. I personally think we would best leave their "prophet" claim alone though and go with your line of reasoning because not even the JW's think of the WT as a prophet and are unaware of it's past claims to be so. Can we at least make a case that they were false prophets in claiming to be prophets?

Can a false prophet become a true prophet by apologizing? Even if such a one could change through recognizing and apologizing for having misled many, the organization known today as the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses has not apologized for its erroneous teachings. It has only adjusted them and acknowledged that the previous viewpoints proved to be in error.

No, the cannot become what they are not by apologizing. Yet, as you point out, they have not apologized for anything nor COULD THEY. Their premise of being guided by God to brighter light and spiritual clarity would fall apart. Were they NOT FOLLOWING God's lead? Or were they NOT BEING LED by God? An apology concedes one or the other.

Steve

5

Katrina --- Floridians, are y'all okay?

by talesin in

jw
friends

.

i'm thinking of carol, joyzabel, mav, and the many others in fla while watching katrina's aftermath on the news ... how are you all doing?

tal .

jst2laws

Talesin,

I'm thinking of Carol, Joyzabel, Mav, and the many others in Fla while watching Katrina's aftermath on the news ... how are you all doing?

Joyzabel has been flipping to the weather station all day but denies she is concerned. It's not going to get close to us in Panama City Beach but I hate to think the Pensacola Fl area and all the communities east of it are going to get hit again. They got the worst of Ivan last year, then Dennis this year and cannot endure another.

The pics below are of our house after Opal in 95.

Steve

104

Hot News-New GB members

by truthsetsonefree in

jw
friends

hey ya'll, t was announced this morning at the breakfast table that there are two new members of the governing body.

they were formerly "helpers" or "given ones.

" anthony morris raised a family and then went into the traveling work.

jst2laws

Barbara Anderson asked me to put these pics up. I have know idea where they are from.

Interesting developement.

jst2laws

45

How many of you had assembly parts?

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

i was just remembering i had a part in an assembly part once.

i was a fresh new pioneer (who never, ever made my time, lol) just out of high school.

they gave me a brief part to say i was glad i didn't go to college and how i turned down a good job to pioneer.

jst2laws

Lots of them. First District Convention talk was in 1972 at the Alburquerque convention to last one about 1987 at Springfieild Ill. Started to speak out too much and CO said "I cant trust what you will say". That was Ok untill about 1999 when I started surfing the www for material for a talk. That put me on the waterslide of freedom. DF'd in 2003 for apostacy.

Steve

46

Have You Seen My Mother.... The word is out!

by Bryan in

jw
friends

more news tomorrow!

bryan

have you seen my mother

jst2laws

Bryan,

I always wondered what your sign off meant, "have you seen my mother". Now I know.

Give us more info as the date gets closer as to how to order the book. You got my attention.

STeve

3

for anyone addicted to a computer game

by MegaDude in

s.korean man dies after 50 hours of computer games .

tue aug 9, 2005 11:44 am bst .

seoul (reuters) - a south korean man who played computer games for 50 hours almost non-stop died of heart failure minutes after finishing his mammoth session in an internet cafe, authorities said on tuesday.. the 28-year-old man, identified only by his family name lee, had been playing on-line battle simulation games at the cybercafe in the southeastern city of taegu, police said.. lee had planted himself in front of a computer monitor to play on-line games on august 3. he only left the spot over the next three days to go to the toilet and take brief naps on a makeshift bed, they said.. "we presume the cause of death was heart failure stemming from exhaustion," a taegu provincial police official said by telephone.. lee had recently quit his job to spend more time playing games, the daily joongang ilbo reported after interviewing former work colleagues and staff at the internet cafe.. after he failed to return home, lee's mother asked his former colleagues to find him.

jst2laws

Well Dude, how have you been. You haven't quit your job have you?

Steve

8

Will the Watchtower always win the sex abuse cases ???

by run dont walk in

.

after following the berry case, i wonder if anyone will ever win against the watchtower, looks like their shake up in 2000 wasn't really needed after all.. i guess the general feeling will be since elders do not get paid, like catholics or other religions, they will never be found liable, one more for the watchtower, what a corporation.

jst2laws

No, they will not always win.

Marci Hamilton, who tried the Berry case, knows better then most attorneys the uphill battle involved in finding ANY religion liable for the harm they cause. As part of the Jeff Anderson team they have won against the Catholic church many times but the JW's are a different situation. The abuser in the Berry case was not an elder (although it is alleged he was appointed a ministerial servant even after the charges of child abuse were brought to the elders) and was not secretly shuffled to another congregation by the WT society to hide his crime, as the Catholic hierarchy did. The main WT culpability in the Berry case, as I understand it, was the local elders

1 Did nothing to deal with the problem and did not send the mother and children to the authorities
2 Even advised them to not go to the authorities and to in essence leave it to 'Jehovah'. Especially to do this in the presence of the molester surely fortified his confidence that he could continue the molestation without risk of exposure.

Watchtower's accountability would be for creating the environment that this could happen, where members would come to untrained elders with criminal behavior and then the elders being more concerned about the congregations reputation than protecting it's children.

Presently the legislature protects religious institutions and even exempts them of the common laws that society must obey by letting them hide behind the First Amendment and state Ecclesiastical Exemption laws. If you combine this with the seemingly distant connection of the GB to what happens in a local congregation compared to the actions of the Catholic church in hiding pedophile priests, you can imagine how difficult it is going to me to demonstrate the Watchtower's accountability. This is going to be a process of educating the courts in how the Watchtower operates and the control they exercise over the local elders and individual JWs.

Hamilton is not finished with the WT. I think she will become a major entity in this battle in the future. Meanwhile, some interesting cases are coming to court soon from the efforts of the Love/Norris team. It is hopeful that some precedents will be set paving the way for many victories against the WT.

Its a slow process. We just have to be patient and come right back after each set back.

Steve

17

just read 'crisis of conscience' by Ray Franz...

by Lynne Y in

unbelievable.... matters presented were really disturbing and hurting... not that information presented in this book is new, but i didn't think it could be this bad... .

especially thins one.. a letter written by the society to all circuit and district overseers.

(p.293)keep in mind that to be disfellowshipped, an apostate does not have to be a promoter of apostate views.

jst2laws

Hello Lynne,

Not that information presented in this book is new, but I didn't think it could be this bad...

Yes! I was at Bethel during the 60's and 70's and watch the breadfast text comments battle back and forth for some time and never knew what it was about. Then I finally read Ray's bood and . My reaction was like yours, it was worse than I thought. Couldn't get OUT of the org fast enough.

Recommend the book to everyone.

Steve

40

Rape, two witnesses, DNA, and rape kit

by Fatfreek in

forgive, please, if this has been asked.

my google wasn't much help.. does the society yet recognize dna, a rape kit, etc., as evidence that could supplant a "second witness" which they have always insisted on?.

fats

jst2laws

Hello Pistoff,

In the one case I had to handle we never questioned the truth of the statement of rape but assumed it was true and focussed on the alleged victims obligation to scream and try to get away. Almost took judicial action against the victim for their passive resistence.
just2laws, how long ago was this?
I think that the Brooklyn braintrust has gone back to this direction, if the last WT on it is any indication.

That was about ten years ago but I'm not aware of their changing their policy. The JWs are true "fundamentalist" and "literalist". They are going by the Bible and interpreting it literally. What makes them worse than most fundamentalists is that their "Faithful Slave" concept allows them to add to the BS with 'new light' from God as they serve as the "Channel of communication".

Steve

40

Rape, two witnesses, DNA, and rape kit

by Fatfreek in

forgive, please, if this has been asked.

my google wasn't much help.. does the society yet recognize dna, a rape kit, etc., as evidence that could supplant a "second witness" which they have always insisted on?.

fats

jst2laws

Hello Luckynun,

quite honestly, it took me longer to get over my treatment by the elders than the actual rape.

Please allow me to let you know I DID THAT and I apologize. No, I didn't do it to you. But I was one of those mindless, loyal bastard elders who went home and laid awake all night wondering "What if the Organization is wrong in their interpretation? If so I REALLY HURT SOMEONE THIS EVENING."

Now I am an advocate for people like you, that I hurt, that the WT hurt, that RELIGION hurts in the name of God.

I hope you are recovering. Everyone I run into that has been through that hell I tell them, "It was not your fault, We screwed up". Tell yourself that. YOUR DID NOTHING WRONG. IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT.

Abusive religion can cause so much harm. Its up to us to say I'M OK , it was THEM that was messed up.

Steve