Posts by onemore

116

Definition of Atheist

by ZeusRocks in

jw
friends

i've noticed on so many threads people misrepresenting what and atheist is.

so hopefully anyone who is so inclined can view this clip to get it a bit of clarity on the definition, so others don't have to constantly repeat themselves and correct uneducated assertions on what atheism is.. enjoy.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt1wdnrkllq.

onemore

…either don't understand or can't be bothered to actually look it up.

But as the video that you posted shows, if I decide to look up the meaning of the word atheist, I’ll come across those definitions that the atheists say are inaccurate. But with guys like Richard Dawkins (the believer’s Ken Ham) running around, I (and other believers) have no option but to trust that those definitions are correct.

In Spanish, the word for atheist is ateo. A=’no’ or ‘sin’ (without), teo= dios (god). So, in Spanish ateo is, no-dios (no-god) or sin-dios (without-god). Does this translation best describe what the correct English definition of atheist should be?

Another question:

If atheism is belief, what definition of the word belief best describes what atheism is ? Does this definition of the word belief (per the Merriam-Wesbter dictionary) fit? 3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence.

If not, what definition of the word belief best describes what atheism is?

What is your opinion? (I'm going somewhere with this).

116

Definition of Atheist

by ZeusRocks in

jw
friends

i've noticed on so many threads people misrepresenting what and atheist is.

so hopefully anyone who is so inclined can view this clip to get it a bit of clarity on the definition, so others don't have to constantly repeat themselves and correct uneducated assertions on what atheism is.. enjoy.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt1wdnrkllq.

onemore

Atheism are just as guilty as god believing people of generalizing, and accusing, for example, all Christians of believing that atheist are evil, immoral, self-centered, and ignorant.

I certainly don’t believe that about atheists and I’m sure that other god believing people don’t feel that way towards atheists.

Also, I’m never going to understand why a person that calls himself an atheists, says it in a condescending tone towards believers. It’s as if atheists feel that they are smarter, more sophisticated and better educated than god believing people.

I don’t know what is sophisticated about believing that we became from monkeys. At least believing in spontaneous existence is more dignifying.

43

For Atheists & Strong Agnostics: (Believers can counter-post also!)

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

for atheists and strong agnostics (those who believe that we cannot know about god if he exists):.

i am posting this thread because i think it greatly help myself (and other christian believers) to better understand your beliefs and your viewpoints, if you posted a short (or long) summary of what the reasons and basis are for your not believing that there is a god, or for believing that we cannot know god if he exists.. you can include arguments against god, against the bible, against the christian interpretations of the bible, etc.. you can include scientific evidence that you believe contradicts the bible, or contradicts the existence of a god/creator/designer.. christians believers: you are welcome to post counter-arguments, or summaries for why you believe in god/creator/designer or why you believe in the bible or the christian interpretations of the bible.. i also thought it might be good to link to another lively thread we had on this website a while back: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/175688/1/god-morals-and-atheists.

when you include your reasons for why you don't believe in god or the bible, or why you do believe in god or the bible, please include at least a little bit of the evidence (or link to the evidence) that backs up your statement.. for example, it doesn't do much good to claim "evolution is false" and just leave it at that, or on the other hand, to say "the bible is full of scientific errors" and just leave it at that.. here are two threads i posted where i explained the reasons why i personally believe in god and the bible:.

onemore

Sorry, reposting:

Wobble

You said: I am a little perplexed that the simplistic argument used by believers …

Now I ask you, what is belief based on? Isn’t faith? The foundation for my belief in a Creator is faith. As simple as that. I gaze at the stars and marvel and say in my heart: WOW! God, how great is your power and how beautiful your works, you are Holy and Awesome! So, I’m guilty as charged of being simplistic and I don’t feel embarrassed about it.

However, many believer are not scientists, but there are scientists who are believers, have you read (or analyzed) their arguments in favor of intelligent design and/or God? So picking on believers on this forum -who have limited resources and don’t have any credential other than faith-is…shall I say, a Hasty Generalization fallacy.

43

For Atheists & Strong Agnostics: (Believers can counter-post also!)

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

for atheists and strong agnostics (those who believe that we cannot know about god if he exists):.

i am posting this thread because i think it greatly help myself (and other christian believers) to better understand your beliefs and your viewpoints, if you posted a short (or long) summary of what the reasons and basis are for your not believing that there is a god, or for believing that we cannot know god if he exists.. you can include arguments against god, against the bible, against the christian interpretations of the bible, etc.. you can include scientific evidence that you believe contradicts the bible, or contradicts the existence of a god/creator/designer.. christians believers: you are welcome to post counter-arguments, or summaries for why you believe in god/creator/designer or why you believe in the bible or the christian interpretations of the bible.. i also thought it might be good to link to another lively thread we had on this website a while back: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/175688/1/god-morals-and-atheists.

when you include your reasons for why you don't believe in god or the bible, or why you do believe in god or the bible, please include at least a little bit of the evidence (or link to the evidence) that backs up your statement.. for example, it doesn't do much good to claim "evolution is false" and just leave it at that, or on the other hand, to say "the bible is full of scientific errors" and just leave it at that.. here are two threads i posted where i explained the reasons why i personally believe in god and the bible:.

onemore

Bohm

I considered agnosticism and creator-denyism, but I re-evaluated those options, I read some books and other material on the subject and that’s where I got my ideas from.

I’m not arguing for a specific God or theological stance, I’m arguing in favor of a Creator and Intelligent design.

But if you want to know. I believe in a Creator. And I worship the God of the Bible, YHWH. All other gods are not real gods to me. So yes, I deny Mohamed and his god.

Zid

I think it takes more faith in “magic” to believe that a single cell organism made the transition from a “blob of tissue” to an Elephant.

I would pay to see the transitional fossils or missing links from the rat that slowly become a whale (or the other way).

A@G

I only recognize one Creator, always eternal, always existent and no other before It. So yes, I’m a creator Creator denier.

I think it’s a better option than attributing the existence of the universe to “Chance”.

Wobble

You said: I am a little perplexed that the simplistic argument used by believers …

Now I ask you, what is belief based on? Isn’t faith? The foundation for my belief in a Creator is faith. As simple as that. I gaze at the stars and marvel and say in my heart: WOW! God, how great is your power and how beautiful your works, you are Holy and Awesome! So, I’m guilty as charged of being simplistic and I don’t feel embarrassed about it.

However, many believer are not scientists, but there are scientists who are believers, have you read (or analyzed) their arguments in favor of intelligent design and/or Creationism? So picking on believers on this forum -who have limited resources and don’t have any credential other than faith- is…shall I say, a Hasty Generalization fallacy.

I challenge you to come forward with a sophisticated and well researched explanation as to why you don’t believe in a Creator, other than “The God of the bible kills children, is a murderer and approve rape”.... Go!

P.S. I tend to stay away from posting my opinion on controversial subjects such as this. Words and feelings can be misinterpreted and the tendency is to go into personal attacks. To the persons that I’m addressing please understand that 1) I respect you as individuals, and your opinions and beliefs. 2) if my words are perceived as a personal attack, please excuse me in advance as that is not my intention. 3) And I will join you for a beer without hesitation.

The moment it gets personal or insulting, I’m withdrawing from posting my opinion on this thread.

Thanks,

Unomas

43

For Atheists & Strong Agnostics: (Believers can counter-post also!)

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

for atheists and strong agnostics (those who believe that we cannot know about god if he exists):.

i am posting this thread because i think it greatly help myself (and other christian believers) to better understand your beliefs and your viewpoints, if you posted a short (or long) summary of what the reasons and basis are for your not believing that there is a god, or for believing that we cannot know god if he exists.. you can include arguments against god, against the bible, against the christian interpretations of the bible, etc.. you can include scientific evidence that you believe contradicts the bible, or contradicts the existence of a god/creator/designer.. christians believers: you are welcome to post counter-arguments, or summaries for why you believe in god/creator/designer or why you believe in the bible or the christian interpretations of the bible.. i also thought it might be good to link to another lively thread we had on this website a while back: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/175688/1/god-morals-and-atheists.

when you include your reasons for why you don't believe in god or the bible, or why you do believe in god or the bible, please include at least a little bit of the evidence (or link to the evidence) that backs up your statement.. for example, it doesn't do much good to claim "evolution is false" and just leave it at that, or on the other hand, to say "the bible is full of scientific errors" and just leave it at that.. here are two threads i posted where i explained the reasons why i personally believe in god and the bible:.

onemore

Zombie dub,

You said: I am an atheist. I exist. Therefore you are wrong.

And that’s the point I’m making. I KNOW you do, I perceive the evidence of your existence as a person in that you are on the forum, in the feelings and ideas in you create, type and post, I know that you have to be a real person typing a message miles away from where I’m.

But I choose to deny your existence.

So, therefore, you don’t exist because I don’t believe in atheists. You can say whatever you want, but I’ll ignore your existence. I’m much happier believing that you don’t exist. Its liberating to see that there is not a single person in this world without a Creator. Thank God there are no atheists.

You get my point?

Again, I mean no disrespect to you or any other Creator Denier (how about that?) on this forum.

43

For Atheists & Strong Agnostics: (Believers can counter-post also!)

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

for atheists and strong agnostics (those who believe that we cannot know about god if he exists):.

i am posting this thread because i think it greatly help myself (and other christian believers) to better understand your beliefs and your viewpoints, if you posted a short (or long) summary of what the reasons and basis are for your not believing that there is a god, or for believing that we cannot know god if he exists.. you can include arguments against god, against the bible, against the christian interpretations of the bible, etc.. you can include scientific evidence that you believe contradicts the bible, or contradicts the existence of a god/creator/designer.. christians believers: you are welcome to post counter-arguments, or summaries for why you believe in god/creator/designer or why you believe in the bible or the christian interpretations of the bible.. i also thought it might be good to link to another lively thread we had on this website a while back: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/175688/1/god-morals-and-atheists.

when you include your reasons for why you don't believe in god or the bible, or why you do believe in god or the bible, please include at least a little bit of the evidence (or link to the evidence) that backs up your statement.. for example, it doesn't do much good to claim "evolution is false" and just leave it at that, or on the other hand, to say "the bible is full of scientific errors" and just leave it at that.. here are two threads i posted where i explained the reasons why i personally believe in god and the bible:.

onemore

UnDisf,

I’m breaking your guidelines, because I just wanted to ask….

What are these atheists I hear people talk about?

I have never seen them, never talked to one, I don’t know what they have done for me, my family or humanity, I don’t even know one.

I see no proof that they even exist. So for all I know I’m an A-atheist. In other words,

There are no Atheists. They don’t exist.

Because there is no man without a God or gods…regardless of whether they want to recognize it or not.

P.S. And I mean no disrespect. Religion has its share of evil deeds, but this is not an argument about whether religion is correct on their approach to and representation of God. The fundamental issue is, can you look at the world, the universe, your body and honestly say that there was not a Creator that caused it to be? It takes a bigger leap of faith to be an Ignorer of God than a Believer (regardless of spiritual orientation).

My take,

Onemore

45

Studying my faith away

by the-illuminator81 in

i want to introduce myself.

i'm a 28 year old active, married jw from belgium.

in the preceding months (i'd say starting from about march) i've been slowly losing my faith.

onemore

illuminator81:

Cult’s behavior is predictable. If you DA, you know for sure what the outcome will be, shunning, marriage problems, family problems, etc.

If you FADE, you won’t know for sure what the outcome will be. The might come after you or they’ll forget about you and leave you alone….point is, if you fade, you never know what will happen. But at least it gives you and your family the time to get used to your new pattern of “behavior” (low or non-JW activities); while keeping communication with you.

Regarding your faith (and I speak from my personal experience), the WT and other “extreme” fundamentalists promote an absolutist/literal approach to the Bible and its message. I encourage you to look at both side of the issues (regarding the flood, the tower of babel, etc), and I don’t mean the WT interpretation of the bible vs the skeptics’, but the work of many scholar that have presented evidence and intelligent arguments in favor of the message behind those biblical accounts.

Here is just one example regarding the world wide flood: http://www.commentarypress.net/cpn-essays/English/6E9A71B2-FAF2-47F9-9F75-097C7517839E.html

My advice to you is try to Fade and help your wife, but before you make any final decision, read Steve Hassan’s second book and Ray Franz’s In Search Of Christian Freedom. They will complement what you have learned so far and might help you reconsider your approach (not your decision to leave, because its a good one, but the way you handle the situation).

Regard,

onemore

98

Do you believe the "Conscious Class" will be saved? (CHRISTIANS ONLY)

by brotherdan in

there are thousands of people sill trapped in the organization that realize that it cannot be what it claims to be: god's only true organization.

but do you think that these ones that still believe in christ and his crucifixtion will still be saved?

after all, salvation does not come from an organization.

onemore

Otherwise, anyone "conscious" who wanted to be able to live in Christian freedom in the way Jesus and the NT writers actually recommended would be best advised high-tale it out of the Org.

I share the same position.

Was I to have a lot significant family members and friendship in the org, leaving would have been a lot harder than what it is now. But I feel at odds with the organization, I don’t feel free to express my thoughts and feelings about some JW’s position and doctrines, I feel that I need a healthier Christian fellowship and association, and time is too precious to wasted at “broken cisterns” (Jer 2:13) that the KH and assembly halls have turned into. So, I realized that I can’t stay.

Also, I feel a calling in my heart to be of better service to my community and Christian brother and sisters, in the JW organization… my “talents” will be wasted, as I promised myself to never set a foot at the platform/podium again at a KH (not even for reading). I enjoy teaching, I would like to teach the gospel and lead others to Christ; as a JW…that will be almost impossible.

However, I believe that the decision to leave or stay have to be a purely personal. But don’t fool yourself, staying won’t be easy, and you’ll have to give up some of your Christian freedom. Even for the conscious class…staying comes with a price.

As to the salvation of the “conscious class”; this is all I have to say:

There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor? (James 4:12, NIV).

22

Interesting terminology heard at this year's DC

by baltar447 in

ok, so earlier this summer at a dc i got to hear one of the gb speak.

he used some odd terminology i had not heard before.

he said this two or three times, so i mentally made note of it.

onemore

He used some odd terminology I had not heard before. He said this two or three times, so I mentally made note of it. He said "Jehovah's Witness, and "Friends of Jehovah's Witnesses".

I find this comment very interesting, as I noticed something very similar at my DC. The speakers, in several occasions used the term “friends of Jehovah”, “friendship with Jehovah”, etc when referring to the “other sheep”; but when referring to the anointed/governing body they used terms such as, “son’s of Jehovah”, that they have a “relationship with Jehovah”. They did this in several occasions, and in one particular talk, I felt that the speaker was instructed to emphatically refer to the “other sheep” as having a friendship with Jah as oppose to a relationship.

I think I now where this is going…

Onemore

4

Beaconing and Sheltering away from WT (Action Plan 1)

by ruruj in

jw
friends

from "reform or dissolve watchtower and questions?

" post i learnt that most in jwn overwhelmingly disfavor reformation.. okay, let's talk something we could agree on.. .

we are against the system.

onemore

ruruj,

Some JW are happy where they are, many are not. Some would want to keep their faith in God and Christ, others might not. As far as morality is concern, some will keep those standards, others might just be glad to break free from the restraints. But in all, JWs come in all sizes and shapes. But there is one thing, one thing only that they all need to know. That the WT is not, never was, will never be, the so called God’s organization here on earth.

The having that knowledge could be liberating to some, but to others it might be a blow to their sense of self worth, security and world view. It’s a very delicate situation, one that needs to be approached with a great sense of sensibility and responsibility.

Also, many of those that left and some of us that are in the path of leaving the org, (really) don’t want to deal with WT stuff anymore. It’s a waste of energy, resources and time. We wasted too much of that already working forthe org, wasting more of it fighting against the org is equally counter-productive.

I felt like fighting the WT at first (and still feel like it sometimes), but I now have no desire not fight the monster. Life’s too short to spend it that way. However, I will support any organized outreach campaign to exJW or disillusioned JWs, just to help them at a personal level…

I don’t know at what point of your path to discovery you are on, but the more you focus your strength in the improvement of yourself (spiritually, physically, emotionally, academically, etc) the less and less relevant fighting the watchtower society becomes to you.

A healthy way to help is to make your own blog/page, write spiritually and psycologocally uplifting material, make your own youtube channel and post videos explaining that the WT is not Jah’s organization. The more the people making this type of material, the easier it becomes for others to learn the real truth about the organization. I have my own www.libertadcristiana.net, it’s the best I can do for now.

my 2 centabos,

onemore.