Loved your post -- and welcome to the real life. I'm so glad Wikipedia became part of your window to the truth. I have helped write many of those articles and continue to strive to ensure they are accurate, balanced and based entirely on facts any reader can verify. My wife and I both woke up to the truth about six years ago, left and never returned. It is as if we have reclaimed our lives, and we feel both bitter and embarrassed that we were conned for so long. Life is too short to give it to a deceived and deceitful high-control religion. All the very best with your challenge re your wife. My best advice: take it gently.
MrMonroe
JoinedPosts by MrMonroe
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my first post! (long read sorry in advance)
by Letts Party inlong time lurker, first time poster here finally looking to get some things off my chest.
i've always been a very curious person with tons of questions about everything, and i also care deeply particularly about societal issues like social injustice, racism, and homophobia.
that, coupled with how boneheaded all the elders in my congregation are (except for one), led me to ask even more questions that led me to find ttatt.. .
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Could you get disfellowshipped for simply asking questions?
by LogCon inif so, what would be some examples?.
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only questions that show a higher degree of thought and intelligence please..
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MrMonroe
William Schnell, in "30 Years a Watchtower Slave" (chapter 5) wrote about how the Watchtower Society was "bent on eliminating the last vestige of individual thought and action within her ranks".
Using an increasingly strained extension of the concept of "types" and "antitypes" of Bible characters, Rutherford and his buddies set themselves up as the "Faithful and Wise Servant Class", to whom all goods were given, in a bid to eradicate completely the old Bible Student belief that CT Russell had been the "faithful and wise servant".
After that came the "Mordecai-Naomi class" (the last members of the 144,000 anointed on earth), then the "Ruth-Esther class" (a later, younger class of recruits when it was discovered the door to the heavenly class hadn't actually closed), then the vast "Jonadab class", over whom they would all rule. Schnell wrote: "Note that each class emerged on a lower strata, and the lower the strata the larger the numbers."
There was also the "evil slave class", and if you can be bothered reading Watchtowers from the 20s and 30s, you'll encounter many, many more: I started making a list of them at some point and it was both tedious and absurd.
Ray Franz, in "In Search of Christian Freedom" (p.166-7) wrote a fairly devastating critique of the Society's "class" concept as they applied it to Luke 19 and Matthew 24. He says that at Governing Body meetings he argued for consistency: since the "faithful slave" became a class, shouldn't there also be a "ten-mina class" and a "five-mina class", a "many strokes class" and a "few strokes class"? Where would it end? In the end, he said, the parable was being perverted: "Rather than serving as an exhortation to modest, faithful service to one's Master and one's fellow servants, it is used principally as a means to demand unquestioning submission to the Governing Body's direction."
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The type of publicity the WTS craves
by MrMonroe in"odd spot" in our newspaper the age today:.
"a salvation army worker who handed in $125,000 that fell from an armoured truck in california has picked up a $5000 reward.
joe cornell, who was unsure whether to give back the sack of money, said: "i went down there carrying the bag like i was santa claus.
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MrMonroe
"Odd spot" in our newspaper The Age today:
"A Salvation Army worker who handed in $125,000 that fell from an armoured truck in California has picked up a $5000 reward. Joe Cornell, who was unsure whether to give back the sack of money, said: "I went down there carrying the bag like I was Santa Claus." Brinks also donated $5000 to the Salvos."
If it had happened to a JW, and Brinks had handed over five large to the Society, the dubs would be hearing it as experience at conventions for the next 10 years. And they'd be saying, "Only a Jehovah's Witness would be that honest! Brothers, the world notices we are different!"
The fact is -- unpalatable though it is for the JWs -- there are good and honest people everywhere.
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After JWs inherit the earth...
by Zoos in... will they destroy all great pieces of religious art?.
just finished watching monuments men.
great movie!
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MrMonroe
Not to mention the ancient temples with their "disgusting and perverted" displays of sexual activity. The pyramids? Gone.
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WT edit to Wiki
by Poztate inthe gang in brooklyn must be very busy.
the wt ranks # 29 of all pages on wiki for editing.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-100-most-edited-wikipedia-articles/.
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MrMonroe
Don't blame "the gang in Brooklyn". With the very rare exception, the pro-JW editors come from all over the world -- a fact easily identified by tracing their IP addresses if they're not registered users. Most of them are quite ignorant and brainwashed, insisting that (a) the religion is led by Almighty God and (b) the non-JW sources cited in the article are lying, malicious apostates. Some delete the criticisms, hoping no one will notice, and many also say that the "real facts" about the religion are available at JW.org. Then they leave, never to return.
Despite the number of edits on the JW article page, the article itself is remarkably stable. It's thorough and balanced and clearly cites the sources of every point that could be in contention.
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Whatever happened to Marvin Shilmer?
by MrMonroe in"marvin", who i understand is a pseudonym, has an excellent blog whose most recent post was last september.
his most recent contribution to wikipedia, where he made very valuable contributions, was march 2013.. i have emailed him wondering if he's ok, but haven't had a response.
anyone know if he's ok or what the deal is?.
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MrMonroe
"Marvin", who I understand is a pseudonym, has an excellent blog whose most recent post was last September.
His most recent contribution to Wikipedia, where he made very valuable contributions, was March 2013.
I have emailed him wondering if he's OK, but haven't had a response. Anyone know if he's OK or what the deal is?
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Electronic KMs Now Being Provided By Org to R&F?
by pronomono ini received a call from my book study conductor the other day asking for my email address so that he could start sending electronic copies of the km to me.
has anyone else received calls like this?
i've missed quite a few meeting (it's been nice) so am unaware if any letter has been read.
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MrMonroe
Knowledge is power. Elders thrive on the power they retain by keeping others in the dark. The "secret knowledge" of elders -- the books and letters only they see -- is the Watch Tower Society's version of Viagra.
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Looking Back, Are You Embarrassed By Your Attitudes, Speech, Actions as a JW?
by minimus ini think of how judgmental we were as witnesses.
"worldly ones" were almost as bad as disfellowshipped ones but not as bad as "apostates"..
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MrMonroe
I distanced myself from, and ultimately cut off contact with, people who could have been good friends because they were "wordly" and not "lovers of Jehovah". What a waste.
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Another night, another JW dream
by MrMonroe insuch a ripoff when you dream you're back at the damn meetings.
i once dreamed a local (rather liberal-minded) elder, jack hoogendoorn, was smoking a cigar while he was giving a talk on the platform.. last night i was back there again: one elder who suddenly decided he was going to be "encouraging" gave me the latest stats on baptisms, while someone else i was meant to go witnessing with was not-so-subtly probing me about how many magazines i'd been placing lately.
i chose not to tell them i had decided against placing mags any more.
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MrMonroe
Such a ripoff when you dream you're back at the damn meetings. I once dreamed a local (rather liberal-minded) elder, Jack Hoogendoorn, was smoking a cigar while he was giving a talk on the platform.
Last night I was back there again: one elder who suddenly decided he was going to be "encouraging" gave me the latest stats on baptisms, while someone else I was meant to go witnessing with was not-so-subtly probing me about how many magazines I'd been placing lately. I chose not to tell them I had decided against placing mags any more. This, for me, is at least some progress: my dreams now clearly have me on the outskirts of the organisation, rather than deep in it.
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"Jehovah's Witnesses" among most controversial articles on Wikipedia
by ILoveTTATT inhere's an interesting article:.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/08/daily-chart-1.
among the french-language wikipedia articles, at least, "jehovah's witnesses" is among the most-changed articles on wikipedia.
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MrMonroe
The series of JW articles on Wikipedia have actually achieved a state of relative stability. JW editors do pop up from time to time but tend not to stick around. In the end, Wikipedia must rely on verifiable facts sourced from reliable published sources. There are many books and academic papers that provide unbiased, factual, well-researched material on the religion and that's usually enough to counter the attempts to JW zealots to whitewash, distort or delete material that presents the JWs in a less than flattering light.
Several JW editors have also refused to discuss contentious changes with ex-JW editors on the grounds that they cannot communicate with "apostates". This leaves them at a distinct disadvantage in trying to state or defend their case.
I joined the JWs in 1985 when there was very little opportunity to verify Watchtower statements or gain another persepective. Today Wikipedia and websites such as JWFacts provide current or prospective members of the religion with information that helps them see the truth.