Well, there was Little Toe in Scotland ...
MrMonroe
JoinedPosts by MrMonroe
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27
Has Anyone Been Present When a Dissident Spoke in KH?
by Band on the Run ini know some dissatisified members have planned to "throw caution to the wind" when they exit and break the news as a stunning revelation of lies.
some of my funniest memories were of teachers and others terminated but since they had to finish their contract, they decided to share their insights and horrors.
in normal life, there is a certain allowance made under the circumstances.
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MrMonroe
The JWs often give as their "proof" that they are God's organization:
- No other organisation has the same international peace and harmony in its ranks. It's a powerful point, and they are to be commended for it, though I think the Quakers are also pacifists with an international membership. Unfortunately it comes at the cost of repression of individuality as believers not only become "united in mind" but are forced to become uniform in speech, behaviour and outlook. It's a very brave soul who brokes free within their ranks and chooses to express their individuality.
- The rapid growth of the organisation in the "last days". They have certainly developed sophisticated recruitment techniques and exploited modern fears of the future. But as someone pointed out, the Jews and the gay population have increased in size since World War II. Pentecostal churches and the Mormons have also grown rapidly. And what to do they make of the slowing rate of growth?
- Their persistence at their worldwide door-to-door preaching campaign despite the unsaid fact that everyone hates it. It all comes down to organisational and preer pressure to keep going and fears of repercussions should they stop. And what quality is that preaching? Most JWs do it perfunctorily, lying about their hours, dawdling in streets, cars and coffee shops, doing anything they can to avoid knocking on doors, then just half-heartedly offering mags when someone does open the door. Zealous? Whole-hearted? I think not.
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MrMonroe
The concept of God having an organization is a Watch Tower Society construct designed to make JWs obey everything the organization tells them. If it was so important to God that he have an organization, why did Jesus never mention it?
Does the modus operandi of the WTS mirror God's love? What does your reading of Ray Franz's book tell you about the level of deception, control and pride that motivates their every move? What did Jesus do with people who disagreed with him -- did he shun them for life? Would God or Jesus "use" as their "organization" a religion that was so controlling and so retributive?
And if it's true that Jesus inspected all religions in 1914 and chose the WTS as his organization, why did he choose a religion that within a very short time began to change its teachings? And decided its old teachings were wrong? In the parable at Mark 13:35, Jesus told his followers to stay awake "for you do not know when the master of the house is coming", but what were the Bible Students doing in 1914? Were they waiting for the master to return .... or had they decided he had come 40 years earlier in 1874? What would Jesus have thought about Rutherford sacking a majority of the WTS board of directors so he could insist on his article with his interpretation being printed in The Watchtower?
To many people the Watchtower Society has a very benevolent appearance. Dig deeper, however, search the past, and you find a corrosive culture of distortions, information control, secrets, and whitewashed and rewritten history.
It's not the truth. It can't be.
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27
Reality setting in for Jehovah's Witnesses?
by MrDarkKnight inwhen my friends and family try to "reason" with me about my decision to leave, i immediatley begin to question the interpretation of the so-called prophecy in the bible, i am getting the following consistent response:.
"it does not matter if the end comes in my lifetime.
i know i am doing god's will.".
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MrMonroe
I can't read this thread without thinking of the lovely couple in Brisbane who "brought me into the truth". They were distraught, truly, when my wife told them that we had left the religion and would not return. When we met again some months later, they were still emotional. The guy had tears in his eyes, begging me to tell him why we had left. We wouldn't/couldn't tell them that the reason was because we had read Ray Franz's books and realised it was all a fraud. We were worried he woiuld phone ur congregation and start a judicial committee. We just told him we had made a decision and that was that.
The tragedy of it all is that neither were born-ins. The husband was contacted at the doors in Brisbane and lured in; his wife was originally dead against it, but later succumbed. Now she's the one who phones my wife a week before the 2010 memorial and tells her she's a hypocrite for not attending because she "knows it's the truth".
Both of them have battled against the attempted manipulation of their lives by nosey "brothers and sisters". They are successful in business and life, and have much more money than I can ever hope to make. But they remain trapped. I am now free. And I really feel sorry for them that they just don't realise what a crock they have sold their lives to.
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Who or what "governs" the teachings of the so-called GOVERNING BODY?
by Terry inif a person walked up to you one day and started telling you what to do, how to do it, and threatening you if you refused, wouldn't you immediately ask them by what authority they had such a right?
wouldn't you want to see a badge?
credentials?
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MrMonroe
Why does the command to partake of the body of Jesus apply only to a few but the command to quit mixing in company with whoever applies to everyone?
I think it makes sense only if both apply to everyone or both apply to only them who belong to Christ.
N Drew, beautiful logic. Ditto the "command" for JWs to go preaching. All those scriptures they always cite (Acts 20:20, Acts 5:42) about preaching "house to house" also refer only to the apostles. The blood "command" at Acts 15 was directed at first century Christians. Weird how those specific instructions can somehow take on a wider application when it suits the WTS.
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i am a regular pioneer in my cong reading crisis of conscience.here goes...
by MsGrowingGirl20 ini'm on page 90 right now...the info is definitely new and gives me a totally diff view as to how i used to think of faithful and discreet slave.
i was thoroughly disgusted with the way the brothers handled the oral sex and leadership problem and the insight on the scriptures book...... still have alot of questions though.
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MrMonroe
MsGrowingGirl, my wife and I left in 2008 after reading CoC. We had been very unhappy in our congregation for so long and Ray's book explained so much of what was wrong. I would never have left the JWs because I was convinced they were "God's organization" and if I cut myself off from it I could die at Armageddon. Ray's book showed me the JWs have no greater claim to being "God's organization" than any other religion (and why would God need to have an organization???? Does the WTS really reflect God's qualities??? Would he really want those control freaks to be leading all humans in a new system???)
I read so much more, and discovered much more, abut the JWs after I left. How strange is that? Part of what I discovered was that even Armageddon -- that thing that had kept me in fear for so long (like hellfire for Catholics!) was just a construct of Joseph Rutherford, a scene painted by arbitrarily sticking together unrelated bits of Revelation, Joel, Ezekiel etc. The blood ban suddenly made no sense. Nor did the ban on birthday celebrations.
You obviously enjoy reading, so it may be worthwhile to read Don Cameron's Captives of a Concept, a title drawn of course from Ray's books. Its value is putting on clear display the concepts the WTS uses to keep members in line. The very clever language and argumentation that stop JWs from looking outside their cage.
One more thing: if you get a chance to watch the DVD of The Village, with William Hurt, do so. A lot of things in that will click.
All the best. You are still young, you have a life ahead of you. I wasted 22 years of my life in that religion. I'll be honest and say there were some benefits (I cleaned up my life, met my wife) but the costs -- the control of my life by a manipulative religion -- were too high. My wife was born-in and feels very cheated and angry about having what should have been the best years of her life in her youth taken from her.
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Going out with a bang
by LittleToe inafter much deliberation, i decided to go "out" at the end of a public talk.
it didn't go down too well, but at least i was able to give some of my reasons for leaving.. i've put some of the details on my homepage.
i'll update it more when i get the time and the strength.
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MrMonroe
Little Toe, do you still have the same feeling about being anointed as you did the day you last spoke at the KH?
I ask the question -- and I mean it sincerely -- because I found that my defection from the JWs led to a rapid loss of interest in the Bible. As a JW one is told our lives are centered around Jehovah and the Bible, yet after my wife and I left we have actually thought little about either. The "putting the kingdom first" concept was just another part of the daily JW pretence.
I still consider myself a believer in God, but am not in the slightest bit interested in ever attending a church or for that matter reading the Bible. My 22 years as a JW was more than enough of both.
Of my ex-JW friends, only one couple still attend church. For the rest it's pppphhhhtttt --- we've all just flicked that particular switch in our lives.
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Who or what "governs" the teachings of the so-called GOVERNING BODY?
by Terry inif a person walked up to you one day and started telling you what to do, how to do it, and threatening you if you refused, wouldn't you immediately ask them by what authority they had such a right?
wouldn't you want to see a badge?
credentials?
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MrMonroe
I remember when I began attending meetings in 1985 that the brother studying with me spoke in awe of the Governing Body like they were surrounded by an aura. Like an idiot, I accepted it without question. It's a make-believe world I chose to enter. You set aside all the normal realities and switch off your bullshit meter because you want to beiieve they're right. So I did.
As time went by I met Lloyd Barry (or "Lord Barry" as we called him in Christchurch) and thought he was a nice bloke. (Reading Coc years later I heard about a different side to him). I went to conventions where Brother Barr spoke and he, too seemed a decent bloke. Why didn't I realise then: they were just ordinary men? And when humans set them up on a pedestal, repeating their belief that they are being used by God, of course they believe it.
I mean, Jesus. What an idiot I was.
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My thoughts on this years Special assembly day
by stillstuckcruz inopening comments: so this past weekend was out special assembly, so obviously supplied by jehovah.
we also had the "privelege" of having a gb representative at our assembly hall.
3/4 were young and my guess would be that those were born-ins.
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MrMonroe
That was entertaining. May Jehovah continue to bless with you with many more parking assignments as a reward for your whole-souled efforts at JWN. Then again, Jehovah may not mind if you took the whole weekend off next time.
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Watching TV, JW wife can see a problem with a fictional cult
by OnTheWayOut inso the jw wife and i are watching the mentalist (cbs crime investigation show) and the crime is the murder of a former cult member of a fictional cult; the visionaries.
the first policeman on scene is a visionary who tampered with the scene to remove evidence that a visionary killed a former member.
my wife says "he's going to risk his career and violate the law to protect someone he probably does not even know.
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MrMonroe
Even when my wife and I were still going to meetings, she'd watch Big Love (about polygamist Mormons) at night while I was at work .... and then tell me the striking similarities between their weird cult and our religion: we had "the truth" and they had "the principle." We had a judicial committee and they had ... a judicial committee. They prayed before meals like we did, feared what their Mormon "friends" would think about every move they made, kept distant from their neighbours, believed the holy spirit guided everything they did ... and believed they had God's ear. Watching that show was a pretty big step towards my wife accepting our religion was a load of bollocks.
Soon after we left, we watched a doco on Jonestown, Guyana, and the similarity in the cult control tactics were again too strong to ignore. Groupthink. Punishment for dissent. Others in the group would report any discontent or "murmuring". Shunning tactics. Demands for absolute obedience. People realising it was a dangerous control cult, and yet being too scared to do anything about it.
Watching John Hurt in The Village after we left kind of sealed it all.
It's all about control, deception and delusion.