Posts by MrMonroe

243

Victoria, Australia: Steven Unthank's Press Release: JW's Hierarchy Formally Charged Today With Child Abuse

by AndersonsInfo in

jehovah's witnesses hierarchy charged.

immediate press release: 26 july 2011. link to this press release: http://wp.me/p1g1hc-4o.

worldwide church hierarchy charged with child abuse.

MrMonroe

The evidence is available . . . he just needs the right people to testify and give evidence that children are at risk

You mean current members of the congregation? I can see that happening!

Sizemik, giving evidence in court requires evidence of an offence, not a general statement of opinion or the stories of sexual abuse in distant congregations a decade ago. The numerous docos available on YouTube are not evidence of an offence by the seven legal entities he has charged. A magistrate can't be expected to view a 30-minute television documentary and decide that an offence has thus been committed in the Traralgon congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.

He has to prove that a minister (or elders, as he has chosen to do) worked with unrelated children, and that this is a common event, and they lacked WWC checks. For that he will need (a) the names of elders, (b) the names of children he has worked with, (c) the dates they worked together and (d) an answer to the question, "Was this an uncommon, isolated event?" If the answer is no, then he can ask them, "Do you have a current WWC check?"

If they don't, I would say the case is proven.

243

Victoria, Australia: Steven Unthank's Press Release: JW's Hierarchy Formally Charged Today With Child Abuse

by AndersonsInfo in

jehovah's witnesses hierarchy charged.

immediate press release: 26 july 2011. link to this press release: http://wp.me/p1g1hc-4o.

worldwide church hierarchy charged with child abuse.

MrMonroe

He'd have to prove an offence. The WTS in Australia has previously claimed in the media the WWC law doesn't apply to them because there is no common ongoing adult-child contact. "We don't have Sunday schools." The onus of proof will be on him to show they are committing an offence by engaging in child-related work without having gained police checks.

243

Victoria, Australia: Steven Unthank's Press Release: JW's Hierarchy Formally Charged Today With Child Abuse

by AndersonsInfo in

jehovah's witnesses hierarchy charged.

immediate press release: 26 july 2011. link to this press release: http://wp.me/p1g1hc-4o.

worldwide church hierarchy charged with child abuse.

MrMonroe

Evidence. It all comes down to evidence.

In the Sunday Herald Sun story on July 16, a Victoria Police spokeswoman said: "``For any charges to be laid police must have evidence an offence has occurred.''

I want to know your thoughts on this: What evidence would a court require to prosecute the WTS? Knowledge by an ex-JW that they routinely go doot-to-door, or in cars, with unrelated minors is not enough. How will Steven present evidence that a magistrate would accept?

He will be naming several elders from his local congregation as part of his charges. What evidence will he, or could he, give to the court that would nail the case? Normally a cop would give evidece that he/she saw something take place, and the magistrate would weigh that up in determining guilt. The WTS ain't dumb. They'll be demanding evidence.

What's your suggestion?

243

Victoria, Australia: Steven Unthank's Press Release: JW's Hierarchy Formally Charged Today With Child Abuse

by AndersonsInfo in

jehovah's witnesses hierarchy charged.

immediate press release: 26 july 2011. link to this press release: http://wp.me/p1g1hc-4o.

worldwide church hierarchy charged with child abuse.

MrMonroe

The big unknown in this is whether Victoria's Director of Public Prosecutions will take over the case. On September 13 will Steven have to stand up in court to present the charges and run the case on his own? It's likely the WTS, or its lawyers, will seek to postpone the case or have it transferred somewhere else; will Steven then be responsible for all the paperwork and legal filings and presenting legal arguments before a judge or magistrate -- who are undoubtedly irritated with armchair lawyers trying to act big in court and wasting their time.

There's still another six weeks to go before the court date, so hopefully there will be some indication by the DPP between now and then on whether they'll assist or leave him to go it alone. A private prosecution is so unusual in Victoria, there may be no clear course for the DPP to follow.

68

Car Full of JW's while I'm at the Car Wash............

by Terry in

i'm sort of angry right now.. no, not angry..... i'm shaky.

at least, when i lift my cup of coffee to my lips, sitting here at starbucks, my hand is trembly.. i hate that!.

the power they have to still reach me on some hidden point that hides in the corners of my very being.... .

MrMonroe

They do catch you unawares. I've encountered them twice, I think, since I left: a guy came to my door to offer me a tract when they were doing some dump campaign to keep them all busy and I just said, "Ah, no thanks."

A few weeks ago I was unloading groceries from the trolley into the back of my car when I heard a woman behind me say, "Excuse me." I thought she wanted my trolley, but she was holding out a pamphlet and I said, "Ah, no thanks."

Both times it took me about 10 seconds to think, "Hey, what I should say now is ...." but it was too late. I'll do it one day. A waste of breath I know, but I'll do it.

19

Australian campaigner concedes defeat on Working With Children checks

by MrMonroe in

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/door-closes-on-jehovahs-witness-campaign/story-e6frf7jo-1226095887745.

sunday herald sun, melbourne.

jehovah's witness children will continue to doorknock neighbourhoods with adults who have failed to gain police background checks after a bid to stop the practice failed this week.. gippsland carpenter steven unthank, a former member of the religion who says he was abused as a teen by a church elder, was given approval by victoria's chief magistrate to take the unusual step of launching a private prosecution of the religion over its refusal to require ministers to gain police checks, but says he cannot afford the $350 fee for filing the charges.. mr unthank yesterday said he could not pursue the religion on his own.. he said it was a disgrace that neither victoria police nor the justice department would enforce the working with children act, which requires ministers of religion to gain police checks before working unsupervised with minors.. the religion's corporate arm in australia, the watch tower society, says it does not believe its ministers need to obtain background checks to work with children because they do not typically work unsupervised with children.. ``it's an absolute beatup,'' a spokesman said.

MrMonroe

BP, yes, I guess he is talking about the Theocratic Ministry School. I have no idea why he expressed it the way he did, but I guess he was trying to put his point across that they have "school" instruction for JWs who include minors, with teaching carried out by elders who have no WWC checks.

19

Australian campaigner concedes defeat on Working With Children checks

by MrMonroe in

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/door-closes-on-jehovahs-witness-campaign/story-e6frf7jo-1226095887745.

sunday herald sun, melbourne.

jehovah's witness children will continue to doorknock neighbourhoods with adults who have failed to gain police background checks after a bid to stop the practice failed this week.. gippsland carpenter steven unthank, a former member of the religion who says he was abused as a teen by a church elder, was given approval by victoria's chief magistrate to take the unusual step of launching a private prosecution of the religion over its refusal to require ministers to gain police checks, but says he cannot afford the $350 fee for filing the charges.. mr unthank yesterday said he could not pursue the religion on his own.. he said it was a disgrace that neither victoria police nor the justice department would enforce the working with children act, which requires ministers of religion to gain police checks before working unsupervised with minors.. the religion's corporate arm in australia, the watch tower society, says it does not believe its ministers need to obtain background checks to work with children because they do not typically work unsupervised with children.. ``it's an absolute beatup,'' a spokesman said.

MrMonroe

Steven Unthank reached the point he did with an almost obsessive devotion to legal research to get the point where he could gain the approval of Victoria's Chief Magistrate to take the very unusual step of laying a private criminal prosecution against five corporate entities of a very wealthy worldwide religious organisation.

My take on it is that he did this to pressure, or shame, the Victorian authorities into taking over the case and finishing the work he started. They seem discinclined to do that. Given that, it is ludicrous to think that someone who probably works a 40-hour week on modest income could personally prosecute the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania and its legal offspring in courts, filing briefs of evidence, serving documents, then actually appearing in court to question witnesses and direct matters in the same way a highly-paid public prosecutor would do.

Unthank wanted the attention of the media and politicians to draw pubic attention to the high-handed attitude of the Watch Tower Society and the disinclination of authorities to protect thousands of children in Victoria who are sent door to door by their parents each weekend with adults who have never undergone police background checks. He got that.

I just don't Paypal donations are going to be enough. Either the authorities will let the JWs get away with it or they won't. Unthank is an unusual character, but he has balls.

42

Long Call With Elder: Doesn't Know About "Generations/Overlapping"

by daringhart13 in

jw
friends

i had a call with a good buddy......still an elder the other night.. when i mentioned generations/overlapping.......he had no clue what i was talking about.

such a good man.......... but it doesn't matter.....they don't even realize what is being said to them; what is being done to them.

a high stature elder in their organization....and he had no clue there was another change..... how the hell does this happen?.

MrMonroe

Marking this thread. This is just extraordinary.

52

Racial question about the annointed aka 144,000...

by Joliette in

as an african american associate of jehovah's witnesses (since the age of 5, actually i remember going to the kingdom hall as young as 3).

i've always wondered why most of the annointed were and are white.

i know there are a lot of white people on here so why is it that there are.

MrMonroe

Yes, it's funny how the self-appointed "representative" and "spokesman" for the FDS are male, mostly white and mostly American.

I've met two people who claimed to be anointed: a very old man in Brisbane who always smelt of (ahem) semen, and an elderly lady in Melbourne who was always the subject of gossip in our congregation because she never went to conventions, apparently because she was agoraphobic, but possibly because she was old, had heard it all before and just couldn't see the point.

41

Thanks for your support JWN!!! Dad dies monday, JW family goes to convention on thursday

by Coffee House Girl in

jw
friends

coffee shop guy directed me to his thread...thank you so much everyone for your thoughts of support, it means a lot to have people who understand and show genuine sympathy.

here's my experience so far.... my father dies monday night & my brother (nonjw) calls me to come home, when i arrive my father is still sitting on the couch- all the jw family is sitting in a semi-circle around him, my non jw brother is standing in the next room.

no one is crying, no one is talking.

MrMonroe

Sad events, CHG. I'm sorry.

One of the last JW gatherings my wife and I attended was a funeral for an elderly sister my kids called their nanna (their real grandmothers live a long way and see them only rarely).

This old lady underwent surgery several times for major problems, but doctors eventually decided she should just move into a hospice to live her final months, or weeks, in comfort. She had a big family and almost all were braindead Dubs; she, on the other hand, was often candid about the lazy pioneers who took up fulltime witnessing just to dodge the reality of hard work.

It was obvious the old lady was dying, and a couple of times during the week the family got the call that she was about to pass away .... but she hung on. On Friday night, she finally succumbed. Weirdly, none of the family were there. Did I say it was a big family? None were there on a Friday night to hold her hand, so she died alone.

It was the end of the month, so on Saturday morning her daughter, her husband and their adult kids and family went out witnessing to get their paltry hours in for the month. They worked until lunchtime, then drove to the hospice, where they discovered the old lady's room was vacant. When they asked at reception where she was, they were informed she'd died the night before.

The hospital had made a mistake in failing to contact them on the Friday night, and the family was very, very angry about that. Could their anger have been, in part, because of the guilt they felt that out of a big extended family none had been with her on Friday night, and had put regimented "field service" ahead of genuine human concern on Saturday morning?

We went to her funeral and were saddened to hear the usual recruitment speech, including the blatant lie that the old lady had "loved the pioneers" and admired them for their sacrifice. Absolute bullshit. We went to one more Sunday meeting and never went back. It's just so sad that normal human emotions have to be put aside in order that Witnesses are seen to be doing the right thing -- witnessing and attending conventions -- in order that they escape gossip.