Posts by jerome

16

Simply Unbeleviable Watchtower Quote.

by jerome in

june 1, 2001 watchtower.. whose standards can you trust?.

on the cover page it features a preacher holding a bible in his left hand and a chain with a cross pendant around his neck, a woman campaiging for an election, and a woman in the supermarket examining produce.. the words can you trust as you can see are in red for emphasis.. page four.

a lesson from the law.

jerome

What says the board?

The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.

16

Simply Unbeleviable Watchtower Quote.

by jerome in

june 1, 2001 watchtower.. whose standards can you trust?.

on the cover page it features a preacher holding a bible in his left hand and a chain with a cross pendant around his neck, a woman campaiging for an election, and a woman in the supermarket examining produce.. the words can you trust as you can see are in red for emphasis.. page four.

a lesson from the law.

jerome

I have here before me the:

June 1, 2001 Watchtower.

Whose Standards CAN YOU TRUST?

On the cover page it features a preacher holding a Bible in his left hand and a chain with a Cross pendant around his neck, a woman campaiging for an election, and a woman in the supermarket examining produce.

The words can you trust as you can see are in red for emphasis.

Page Four

A Lesson From the Law

Just as Jehovah's promises are reliable and unchangable, so are his standards of right and wrong. Would you trust a merchant who uses two sets of weights, only one of which is accurate? Certainly not. Likewise, "a cheating pair of scales is something detestable to Jehovah, but a complete stone-weight is a pleasure to him." (Proverbs 11:1; 20:10)

In recent light of many discussions on this board about the necessicity to apply equal sets of criteria for determing the vadility of any party who claims to speak for God Alimighty, in other words... if it applies to one group of people then it should apply to all, I thought it fit that I mention this quote.

Moving on.

Do we hold up all religions/people who claim to represent God Alimighty to the same standards? Well according to the above quotation we should.

Also how do we determine the criteria? Well if we are Christian then the method that we should use would obviously have to be our most Holy Book, The Bible.

So since it was the Watchtowers idea that we hold everyone up to the the same light of examination, wouldent it be reasonable to see if they themselves are in accordance with Gods revealed Word? And hence any variation from the scripture should be brought to attention, past or present? Ofcourse that is if there was repentance.

Main points:

1) I have before me a Watchtower quote that says that you should not trust [ANY]one who "uses two sets of weights." Is the Watchtower such a one?

2) The quote says that Jehovah God promises are "reilable and unchangeable." Do the promises of Gods supposedly appointed channel match this description?

3) We want to see if the Watchtower can stand up to its own criteria? How do they hold up to their own light?

4) We want to see if the Watchtower can stand up to criteria of truth set by Gods word. That is if the criteria it sets for determing the truth is compatible with Gods Word.

You the posters of this board care to comment?

Have fun.

jerome
345

p.s. I'm saving this one for 'You Know' and Friends.

Edited to add summary.

The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.

132

Can any Witness possibly anwser this question?

by jerome in

hello all... i came across this line of questioning many months on the inet so i decided that i would submit just this once to peer pressure and make a usefull contribution to the board.. here is the question... is jesus just "a god?".

many of the regular inet surfers would have come across this line of questioning before so if you have you could just sit back and relax and read the replys.. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>.

me: so is he a 'lesser true god' or a 'lesser false god?'.

jerome

I used the same line of reasoning on two witnesses that came by me recently.

They anwsered that Jesus is a god.

When I showed them isaiah 43:10-11, they just said that jesus called Satan a god so that explains it all.

They dident even know that by that statement they condemened them selves to being polythiest.(sp)

jerome

The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.

41

Witnesses are coming to my door Sunday!

by jerome in

this post is pretty long so i just thought that i'd warn you.. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>.

w: yes he is but he is only the god of this world.

after all if what these people say is true then anybody that dosent know what it is in deep trouble.

jerome

What are the odds of them leaving my place after listening to what I have to say, shake my hand and give me a smile then go spreading vicious rumours about me?

jerome

41

Witnesses are coming to my door Sunday!

by jerome in

this post is pretty long so i just thought that i'd warn you.. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>.

w: yes he is but he is only the god of this world.

after all if what these people say is true then anybody that dosent know what it is in deep trouble.

jerome

I forgot to tell you ppl something really important.

I am doing this for pratice. When I confront my gf's parents I wan to know what to expect.
If I can make an impact on these people then it would allow me to better prepare myself for what my gf's parents would say if I told them that I was anti watchtower.

Thats all on that issue.

You told me that I am listening to apostate propaganda.
Well your right. And i'm very well glad that I did.

Jehovah Witnesses lie when you ask then direct questions. SImple as that.

If you were to read this link and refute it then mabe I would consider acting as if you were credible.

http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/indoct.ht

But untill then you are just a nonsensible bad infulence.

Why would you want me to join the watchtower when you yourself cant even subject yourself to their authority.

Thats it for now.

jerome

41

Witnesses are coming to my door Sunday!

by jerome in

this post is pretty long so i just thought that i'd warn you.. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>.

w: yes he is but he is only the god of this world.

after all if what these people say is true then anybody that dosent know what it is in deep trouble.

jerome

Oh By the way

There is no way that any Jw would listen to all of my questions in just one sitting.

Thanks for the offer dungbeetle but there is noway that you can get that to me in time.

Mavman you continue to amaze me...

People come to my house look me in the face and tell me lies and you condone it. I asked her a direct question about shunning and she LIED. How do you condone that.

This religion is really starting to scare me. If I dident know what i know then I may have got trapped. Thank God for the internet.

I mean the woman looked me strate in my eyes and told me that it was there decision to speak with someone if they got dfed. Aa bold face lie. As she said it i made shure that I kept staring and I dident blink. Then after a while she finally looked away. My My My...

She had the gual to tell me that 1975 was no big deal and that it had nothing to do with her being baptised.

You mean to tell me that she got bapitzed in 1969 and 75 had nothing to do with it.

I think that her husband only started going to church with her because of the strain that it was putting on their marrage. This is just speculation though so I may very well be wrong. He got baptized in 92.

I have to set realistic goals for this meeting so here are my objectives.

Inform them of the UN scandal.

Teach them what is psychological coercion.

Make shure that they dont care to speak badly of me when they leave my home and start spreading vicious rumours about me.

Draw as little attention to myself as possible. By that I mean i dont want them to go warning the rest of the congregation about me and stop witnesses from calling on my home. I dont really need to be shunned.

Anything else is up for grabs.

jerome

41

Witnesses are coming to my door Sunday!

by jerome in

this post is pretty long so i just thought that i'd warn you.. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>.

w: yes he is but he is only the god of this world.

after all if what these people say is true then anybody that dosent know what it is in deep trouble.

jerome

I have a copy of the cassect WITNESSES of JEHOVAH. Its not the video but only the audio.

I wonder if I asked them to listen to it if they would? o you think that the would get up and leave?

My gf has all my watchtower photocopys and apostate liturature so that means that I have to print out more. I hope shes making good use of it though.

Here is my plan...

I want to discuss what is mind controll and brainwashing aka psychological coercion. Because if I can get them to do that then mabe I can make some progress with the way they intrepret their own literature. Because as yu know when you show a jw watchtower contradictions and hypocrisy they dont even blink. Its just like their brains shut down.

As the saying goes;

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, theach a man to fish and you feed him for life.

So if I give them a fish they may only have doubts for a while but if I show them how other people have lost the ability to think for themselves them mabe in the process they will learn how to make decisions for themselves. Then they can find fault on their own.

Oh BTW Mavman

What exactly is the JW good news? Do you mean that if I dont subject myself to the Watchtowers tyrinacal rule that the Lord will kill me? That dosent seem like such good news to me.

But anyway do you think that I should play the tape if they come back?

p.s.

I am still involved with an active witness so I cant let them know that I am completly anti-watchtower becaause my gf's parents dont know yet. So keep that in mind with your replys.

The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.

41

Witnesses are coming to my door Sunday!

by jerome in

this post is pretty long so i just thought that i'd warn you.. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>.

w: yes he is but he is only the god of this world.

after all if what these people say is true then anybody that dosent know what it is in deep trouble.

jerome

This post is pretty long so I just thought that i'd warn you.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

This morning around 10 o'clock I got a very rude wake up call from my little sister banging on my door.

I shouted: WHAT!

She said:

The people are here!
The people that you said that if they came by that to call you.

[ my sister is 7 by the way. Also I maed shure that everyone in my house was witness proof. They wont be getting any new converts, at least not from my home. ]

Then I started to think, what am I going to do, what am I going to say? A gush of thoughts went through my mind crippling me in the process, I couldent move for a while. Then I said to my self, think jerome think, youve been planning for this for months now. Come on get yourself togeather.

Well I finally did. I amasted the courage to go to the window and say:
Hello good morning.

They said: Good morning son, can we have a moment of our time.

I said: Ofcourse just give me a minute.

So I went to the bathroom to wash the cold out of my eye brush my teeth and put on a shirt in record time, then I went around to the back door. I stood there for a moment trying to compose myself, I cleared my thoughts, when I was ready I took a deep breath put a smile on my face and went around to the front.

Small talk.

w1= witness1
w2= witness2
me= jerome yours truly

Me: I'm here sorry I took a while. Good morning again nice to meet you.

W1+2: Good morning we would like to have a discussion with you about the Bible. You like the Bible dont you?

Me: Yes of course!

W1:Then you wouldent mind if we had a little discussion about it, would you?

Me: I wouldent mind at all.

W1: Well... Would you agree that the world as it stands today is in a state of termoil? When you listen to the news dont you hear of all the crime and all the wars that are happening overseas? Dont you think that the world is becoming a dangerous place to live in?

Me: Well no. The world has always been that way. Even going back to Bible days. But even so dont you know that right now that you can live longer than even the richest king in the those days. It is becoming common place to see people that live up into their 80's and 90's.

W1: Well I cant exactly agree with that because people in the Bible have lived much longer than that.

Me: Yes but that was when it was natural for them to live for that period of time. I'm shure that you know that the Bible says that after Adam that the life span of an indivisual would decrease. Dident it say that?

W: Well yes it did. And it also says in the Pslams that the life span of a Generation would be 75 years and 80 if God permitted it.

Me: Speaking of Generation I heard that there was some controversy about that word in your Church some time ago is that true?

W: I think I know what you mean but that really wasent a big deal.
[ Lie #1]

Me: Ok if you say so. You are Jehovahs Witnesses right?

W: Yes.

Me: I also hard that there was alot of controversy about your Bible. Especially John1:1. What does your Bible say about that scripture?

W: Well do you have a Bible.

Me: Yes I do.

W: Would you want to go get it for us?

Me: Shure. [I ran inside and grabbed up my KJV Bible and was back in flash.]
Here it is.
quote' In the beginning there was the word and the word was with god and the Word was God.

W: Nope... thats wrong. The correct translation was 'a god?'

Me: 'a god'!? [ Gasp! ] <---- Being sarcastic.

W: Well you see, how could you be with God and also be God?

Me: Ok I see your point but if you look at the Bible in all its entirety then you will realize that the hebrews had a different style of writing, that repeats alot of words and obivous statements t make things that are important stick out. When these scriptures are translated there are alot of sentences that if we examine them to closely they seem silly. For example,
'They stoned them with stones'. If you examined that sentence too closely you would think that the person who wrote it was being redundant. But you see thats just how the Hebrew language was at the time.

W: Ok we understand your point. But...

Me: [I cut them off here.] Is the word a 'true God' or a false god?

W: Well we believe that he is a true God.

Me: So then the word is God?

W: No, he is not Jehovah but he is still 'a god.'

Me: So is he a lesser god?

W: Well yes.

Me: So is Satan a god too?

W: Yes he is but he is only the god of this world. Jesus also calls him a god.

Me: But how can you say that bearing Is 43:10-11.

W2: Let me read that. [ He reads the scripture to himself.]

Me: So did the Word come before Jehovah or did he come after? Because Jehovah said that no 'god' came before or after me.

W: But Jesus called Satan a god so that means that obviously that they were other gods in a difference than you mean so that scripture cannot apply to what you are speaking about.

Me: But Jehovah was refering to a 'false god.' What I am trying to say is that no TRUE God came either before Jehovah or after. So any gods that came after Jehovah would definetly be false gods according to this verse. Because we all know that they are many gods but there is only one true God that we should pay any attention to.

W: But that scripture still dosent apply.

Me: [ Ok I understand I thought to myself, the dots dont connect for you but thats ok.][-->Aloud] So do you know here this word Jehovah came from?

W: Yes that is Jehovahs personal name.

Me: Ok. Did you know that that word Jehovah came from a combination of the four constanents YHWH or JHVH in english, and the word 'Adonai' which is Hebrew for lord and Eliohem? When you take out the vowels you get Jehovah.

W: [ Witnesses look surprised. They soak it in.]

Me: Oh can I ask you something?

W: Why yes ofcourse.

If you were bored to death before it gets really intresting from here.

Lies Lies Lies...

Me: What happened to your Church in 1975?
W1+2: Well nothing really.
[ lie #2 ]

Me: Are you shure because I heard that there was something really big going on, what year did you come into the truth?

W1: I was baptized in 1969.

Me: Really well I heard that you were expecting the end of the world.

W: Dont mind that kinda talk it was ONLY A FEW CONGREGATIONS that were doing something like that. And even so it was only a few people that were doing those kind of things.
[ lie #3 ]

Me: Thats not what I heard at all. I read that 6000 years of human existence were going to end 1975 and that Everybody thought that the world would end in 1975.

W1: Well since I was new to the organisation at that time, anthing like that that was going on I DIDENT REALLY HAVE A PART TO DO WITH.

Me: So you mean to tell me that everyone around you was waitind for the world to end and you dident even notice.

W1: Well its a good thing that I dident because look were still here.

Me: Ok moving on...What were the Bible students doing in 1914?

W1: We were preaching the good news ofcourse.

Me: Do you know what really happened in 1914?

w1: What do you mean?

Me: Well do you know that Charles Taze Russel was expecting the end of the world in 1914 and not the presence of Christ jesus as you now preach.

w1: I never heard that.

w2: Me nethier.

Me: How is that possible? Dont you study your Churches history?

w1: Well yes we do but I never heard anything around that time.

Me: Well I read that when 1914 came and went that, he pushed the date foward to 1915.

w2: ...

w1: ?

Me: Then he pushed it foward to 1918. And now you hold this date as the date that Christ judged your Church and appointed it above all of his affairs on earth.

w1: Where did you hear all of this?
[ Here comes trouble... ]

Me: I read it off the internet.

W1: Did you get this from the Watchtower site?

Me: Well not exactly. I found it from all over the place because I found that I cant really get the information that I want from your hearquarters website.

w1: Did you hear this from apostates or the headquarters.

Me: Well as I said I got it from all over the place. You see the older publications that you have are nolonger protected by copyright laws so you can by them from off of the internet. People photocopy them and put them on the internet. Also to you can take an excrept from a book and put it online if you want to make a comment about it so then you wouldent be violating copyright laws.

w1: Ok.
[ Thank God... Danger averted.]

Me:Theres another thing that troubles me about your Church.

w1: What is that?

Me: Well... You shun people. When somebody leaves your Church you cant speak to them anymore.

w1: Well that is not exactly so because just the otherday a woman came to the kingdom hall and she told me that she was disfelloshipped. Then she even went to the elders and told them that she wanted to be reinstated.

Me: So can you talk to people that are disfelloshipped?

w1: Well... We shouldent associate with people that we think that are not following Gods principles. Well its OUR OWN PERSONAL DECISION IF WE DECIDE TO TALK TO DISFELLOSHIPPED PEOPLE OR NOT. Live for instance if we were to be at home watching television, we would not want to be watching programmes that a good Christian would not approve of. So you see its a personal decision.
[ Is it really a personal decision? Lie#4 If you are caught you are dfed.]

Me: But I heard that if you got disfelloshipped that your friends would sometimes send you letters telling you that they cant associate or talk with you any more.

w1: I never heard of any such situation...

Me: Ok. there is one last thing that I think that I have to ask you. Do you know what psychological coercion is?

w1: No what do you mean?

Me: Well let me explain. You see back in the 50's there was this war in Korea and alot of American prisoners were captured. In a short period of time many of them ( as much as 75% of them) denounced the united States as evil and sent letters to back to the u.S. asking them to dismantel captiolism. Now everyone wondered how could so many U.S. pow suddenly denounce everything that they have done for all their entire life as evil and take sides with the enmy. Well when the pow's were returned to the states they were studied by many medical professionals to see exactly how could this have happened. They termed the process psycological coercion. Are you shure that you never heard of it though?

W1+2: Not to my recolection.

Me: Well not only did these people find that it was happening in warfare, they also found out that some religious leaders were doing it. One religion that stands out is the Heavens Gate dooms day cult.

w1: I think I heard about those.

w2: [listening intentively]

Me: So do you know that you have to look out for any organisation that uses this psychological coercion. After all if what these people say is true then anybody that dosent know what it is in deep trouble. Like in Heaven Gate people ended up comitting suiside.[/blue]

w2: Ok. we really have to be going now. can we come back some other time?

Me: Well ofcourse. How about sunday evening. [/blue]

w1+2: Ok that sounds fine. [ They got into their car and drove off. ]

Summary;

They lied about: 1975, shunning, generation...

They dont have a clue about any of the other dates for Armageddon and they dont really know much about their history. I mentioned vaccinations and organtransplants but they dident seem to know, or at least they acted that way.

They made plans for a return visit on sunday, and they are bringing their daughter. She apparently has a better knowledge of their history so they think that she would be better able to anwser my questons.

Witness 1 is female and is married to Witness 2. W1 is the more mature witness and witness 2 isnt too good with words, so his wife takes the lead.

They left a Watchtower and Awake article with me but I made shure that they couldent ask for a donation.

I asked the guy if he was happy and he took 30'seconds to anwser, so i think that asking him what being a witness has done for him to make him feel better about himself. His wife on the other hand claims that she is happy as a bird. I think that she was only saying that though.

They realize that I know alot about the Organisation.

_______________________________________

Here is my question to the board.

What do you think that I should do to prepare for Sunday?

jerome.

The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.

132

Can any Witness possibly anwser this question?

by jerome in

hello all... i came across this line of questioning many months on the inet so i decided that i would submit just this once to peer pressure and make a usefull contribution to the board.. here is the question... is jesus just "a god?".

many of the regular inet surfers would have come across this line of questioning before so if you have you could just sit back and relax and read the replys.. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>.

me: so is he a 'lesser true god' or a 'lesser false god?'.

jerome

Ok...

Where are Yadirf and Mavman?

It seems that YK is getting out numbered here.

jerome
337

p.s.

The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.

132

Can any Witness possibly anwser this question?

by jerome in

hello all... i came across this line of questioning many months on the inet so i decided that i would submit just this once to peer pressure and make a usefull contribution to the board.. here is the question... is jesus just "a god?".

many of the regular inet surfers would have come across this line of questioning before so if you have you could just sit back and relax and read the replys.. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>.

me: so is he a 'lesser true god' or a 'lesser false god?'.

jerome

Two points.

1)

Me: So is he a true God or a False god?
YK: Well he is nethier in that sense...

So in what sense is Jesus a god?

Youre either the God of Israel or you are a False God. Care to elabourate?

___________________________________________

2) Do you rember a little verses in the Bible:

Exodus 20:3?

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

So was God Almighty (that never changes) telling the angles to disobey one of his commandements?

I'm pretty shure that if I am worshiping somebody than I am putting them before all else.

jerome
336

p.s. I'm surprised that you have actually used the word 'worship', wow. What would Fred Franz say?