Posts by Wonderment

79

So how exactly did this "new translation" come to be?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

a normal person, upon hearing that a new (or revised) bible translation has been released, would have 2 questions spring to mind almost immediately:.

1) who did the work, and what are their credentials?.

2) what manuscripts is the work based on?.

Wonderment

wasblind:

The truth is, it's not known if the NWT committee had the knowledge to translate from the original scriptures because thier educational background is not known. For all we know they could have lifted the work of someone else and claim it as theirs. It won't be the first lie they ever told...And now you want us to believe that they could produce good work on thier own ??????

One does not have to have the specific educational background of a translator to determine if he/she was up to task. If a German curriculum teacher assigns a class to translate a document of 50 pages from English to German to 20 anonymous students, would a reviewer need to know all the personal history of each student to determine who did the best translation work? No. A capable reviewer does not need that information from the anonymous students to make a required judgment.

It is the end-result or product that determines that.

As for, "For all we know they could have lifted the work of someone else and claim it as theirs," that is not likely for the simple reason that the NWT has too many haters, and it's been exposed to greater scrutiny than any translation in modern history. That would be the first thing brought out by any of its many enemies. Besides, if someone bothers to examine the translated text of the NWT (1984) against the originals will quickly discover that the translator's methodology and language is markedly different from any other translation out there. I am telling you of my experience with the product, and I am very aware that the majority of mainstream individuals will disagree with my findings...and in your favor.

79

So how exactly did this "new translation" come to be?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

a normal person, upon hearing that a new (or revised) bible translation has been released, would have 2 questions spring to mind almost immediately:.

1) who did the work, and what are their credentials?.

2) what manuscripts is the work based on?.

Wonderment

wasblind: "

How do you know for certain that the translation committee was even qualified to do so when it is printed in WTS literature that states: " Is it really a scholarly translation ?

Scince the translators have chosen to remain anonymous, the question cannot here be answered in terms of thier educational background."_________Reasoning from the Scriptures book page 277

I don't think it is absolutely necessary to know who were the translators in order to judge a work.

The end result itself testifies if a translator did its job well. Just the other day, I was reading a 7th Day Adventist book of Galatians, which itself was a translation from the English language. I have no idea who the translator was for that book, but, let me tell you. He did a good job. It was obvious.

The same with the NWT. If you are willing to get your hands "dirty" to examine the guts of the translation against the background of the original texts, one could conclude the translator(s) had enough knowledge to deal with it. I say "could" because one could just go in to investigate looking out for mistakes or differences of theology to see if it passes muster. That's what a lot of people do. Or, they rely on what others say. In my case, I like to check things out for myself.

No one had to tell me that Adventist book was done by someone with no knowledge of both languages involved. And I would not pay much attention to a anti-Adventist critic who would tell me the translator was not up to the job. The same with the NWT. I have examined what the NWT critics have to say, sometimes they are right, mostly they are wrong. Criticism is based on the window one is looking out thru. If the window is dirty, or painted, you are not going to see the other side well. If the window is clear and unpainted, you may see what's out there without the haziness that goes with dubious intentions.

79

So how exactly did this "new translation" come to be?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

a normal person, upon hearing that a new (or revised) bible translation has been released, would have 2 questions spring to mind almost immediately:.

1) who did the work, and what are their credentials?.

2) what manuscripts is the work based on?.

Wonderment

wasblind: "I take it that you too think somebody in Brooklyn is tellin' lies."

I believe Bethel leaders don't give us the full picture. They may claim the "anointed" ones are feeding the brotherhood, but is mostly a case of "anointed" ones being in charge in appointing other capable ones of actually writing the materials. Those other writers are not the anointed, at least, not the majority. Call it, "half-truths," if you will.

Bella15: "Gosh, I don't even believe they did a translation the first time ... the EDITED any NIV bible to make it fit their doctrines."

That could not be true, for the simple reason that the NIV was non-existant when the original committee started their project. They did not use the ASV or KJV either. It was an actual translation from the originals. That's not to say, they were not influenced by other versions to some extent. All translators are.

79

So how exactly did this "new translation" come to be?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

a normal person, upon hearing that a new (or revised) bible translation has been released, would have 2 questions spring to mind almost immediately:.

1) who did the work, and what are their credentials?.

2) what manuscripts is the work based on?.

Wonderment

wasblind:

You are so right that the Society claims the "anointed" feeds the domestics, creating the impression that they themselves do the work of composing all written material. Most everything points to the Writing Dpt. as responsible for that. However, the mighty GB does set the pace for the whole organization.

My point was, that so many here and elsewhere make the common misktake of trying to find individual GB members with scholarly degrees with claims of their publications meeting quality requirements of the bery best, such as the NWT.

I believe that the Writing Dpt. works with the GB who secretly decides who's going to be in the Translation Committee. Governing Body members may or may not be part of such process. It is not unreasonable to believe they would reach out for individuals with knowledge in a specific linguistic field to tackle whatever needs to be done. With a united goal, there is no reason why a Witness with expertise in a certain field cannot work with the Writing Dpt, or the GB to accomplish a translation revision.

The Society have said that they have thousands of contributors in the translation work working closely with the New York headquarters. That said, these contributors could live in Israel or Greece or elsewhere. Is a futile effort to find the scholarly background of each of these contributors.

9

Okay, it's a Gray (even more simplified) Bible- Moving Along

by OnTheWayOut in

this forum dissects everything from watchtower.

the annual general meeting was one of those things.

of course i get that wild speculations would come out.

Wonderment

OnTheWayOut said:

But really guys- it was a big nothing. A NNWT where they removed "ass" in favor of "donkey."

The removal of "ass" in favor of "donkey" is a big improvement. When I went to the KH over 25 years ago, I could not help but visualize some sister's ‘ass’ with the simple mention of the word. Oh naughty me! So there!

The change was necessary. Fred Franz wasn't as pure as many make him out to be. His product was full of sexual inuendos, more so than the competition could offer. The NWT was special indeed in so many ways, this being one of them.

Now the hot blooded young brothers don't have to fantasize with Scarlett Johannsen or some other cutie sister in front of them when the Bible is read aloud about the donkey (not "ass") talking out loud.

79

So how exactly did this "new translation" come to be?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

a normal person, upon hearing that a new (or revised) bible translation has been released, would have 2 questions spring to mind almost immediately:.

1) who did the work, and what are their credentials?.

2) what manuscripts is the work based on?.

Wonderment

Data-Dog:

Many of us here don't believe all this talk about only anointed ones providing spiritual food. I certainly don't.

The history book of JWs (Proclaimers...) was prepared by Karl Adams and Barbara Anderson. Tell me: where they anointed? This is what Barbara said:

"Oh, by the way, I know without a doubt that while I was in the Writing Department, none of the Governing Body researched and wrote any articles and books that the Society published".

So this anointed providing spiritual food is b*** s***. The anointed ones do control the Writing Staff, and anyone else who allows them such control.

Although the NWT translation Committe may have members who know some Hebrew or Greek (???), more likely than not, it is someone else carrying the torch load. Shhh! That is a secret. Don't ask and don't tell!

35

The new translation of John 17:3 seems like a major shift.

by paul from cleveland in

up until now, everlasting life was dependent on "taking in knowledge".

it was a perfect fit for a publishing house to interpret that scripture that way.

if we didn't keep up with the endless stream of publications from the watchtower our salvation would be in jeopardy.

Wonderment

Londo111 said:

"Matthew 5:3 is still horribly translated."

Would you care to explain to us how this text ‘is horribly translated’? We need a better explanation...

32

List down all the changes in the new NWT Bible vs the old NWT that has signifance to the JW beliefs

by UBM101 in

i hope this thread can be a compilation of all the changes made.

it could serves as a good reference for those who want to help the loved ones to wake up.

please list down here all your findings if you don't mind.

Wonderment

Saved_JW said (Underline added):

"The issue of being Anointed

RNWT / Psalms 23

5 You prepare a table for me before my enemies. You refresh my head with oil; My cup is well-ﬁlled.

NWT [1984] Psalms 23

You arrange before me a table in front of those showing hostility to me. With oil you have greased my head; My cup is well filled.

This seems to be an obvious recognition of the terrible translation in the 1984 edition in its use of the word "Greased". This was an obvious attempt to remove the fact that David was an ANOINTED one of Jehovah. Yet another example of the Watchtower to translate the bible according to thier presupposed doctrinal assertions. They simply cannot admit that Old Testament individuals were annointed so they alltogether obfuscate the fact that to have our head "greased" or "refreshed" is to be a symbol of anointing. Here is the ESV Translation [which is a literal translation of the bible]

Psalms 23 ESV

5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
you anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows."

Another opinion from a scholar:

The NET Bible: “The verb [ dashan ] is often translated ‘anoint,’ but this is misleading, for it might suggest a symbolic act of initiation into royal status.”

32

List down all the changes in the new NWT Bible vs the old NWT that has signifance to the JW beliefs

by UBM101 in

i hope this thread can be a compilation of all the changes made.

it could serves as a good reference for those who want to help the loved ones to wake up.

please list down here all your findings if you don't mind.

Wonderment

Are you not asking too much? There are far too many.

I have already found dozens of changes in just a few minutes.

Here is one:

Malachi 2:16, (Old Version):

"For he has hated a divorcing, Jehovah the God of Israel has said..."

(New Version) "For I hate divorce,” says Jehovah the God of Israel..."

The first words changed from third person to first person.

They have done away with the Hebrew perfect, and the Piel infinitive construct. Now they render similarly to other Bible versions.

Conclusion: The reader loses big time on the Hebrew, but gains readability. Which is better or worse?

79

So how exactly did this "new translation" come to be?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

a normal person, upon hearing that a new (or revised) bible translation has been released, would have 2 questions spring to mind almost immediately:.

1) who did the work, and what are their credentials?.

2) what manuscripts is the work based on?.

Wonderment

smiddy,

Who said tha ONLY GB members can work on translation work? Most likely, for this type of publication the GB will reach out to others for help. People are mistaken if they feel that only GB members can do it. It is very likely, they won't.

Why would they hold back from using individuals from Greece or Israel who are knowledgeable with biblical languages as well? After all, the NWT is available in modern Greek, and modern Hebrew (New Testament for now). Who says these people have no interest in studying biblical languages too, or in helping out the NWT Translation Committee if needed? Someone here mentioned once that he had personal knowledge of a JW in Greece who was a translator, and was equally at home with both modern and biblical Greek, and in fact had assisted Bible translation work for decades.

Many comments made here that the NWT Committe can't read Hebrew or Greek is mostly bias against the WT Society. There is no proof the Society can't come up with someone who can read Greek. By the way, George Gangas was Greek, spoke fluent Greek, and learned Spanish after he learned English in his twenties. Can someone tell me how Gangas could not learn to read biblical Greek (being Greek himself), but yet was able to learn Spanish fluently as a third language? Oh, please!