If you ever read "the Fountainhead", this lesson could have basically been one of Ellsworth Tooehy's speeches at the end of the book. Actually he's quite a fine example of WT thinking all around.
simon17
JoinedPosts by simon17
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27
July 15th WT - WT Society Promotes " Freedom " by using Fear & Guilt
by flipper inof course, freedom means a lot of different things to many different people.
however- to the wt society it means controlling it's jw members through fear and guilt to promote a " conditional " freedom - which turns out to not be freedom at all - just a manipulated socially restricted condition in which jehovah's witnesses are caged animals waiting for the next bit of " spiritual " food to be thrown to them by wt articles like this.. at the start of this article on pg.
7 in paragraph 1 it states that due to lawlessness, none of us have freedom to roam around at night, there are alarms, security systems - so the wt society infers we are all living in fear.
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Views on the Creation of the Universe
by simon17 ini was thinking the other day about the fascinating dichotomy of how the creation of the universe plays a role in the belief system of believers and non-believers.
it is the difference between a top-down vs. bottom-up view of reality.
in this post i'm mainly disucssing highly rational, scientific type believers and non-believers, open to fully exploring their belief system, of which i have talked to many.. to the non-believer, the creation event, the big bang, is the one utterly unexplainable event.
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simon17
Yes, I agree with both those points and have frequently pondered the same exact thoughts. Sometimes it is like we are of one mind (well, at least I feel that way since you post a ton. Me: not so much heh).
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Views on the Creation of the Universe
by simon17 ini was thinking the other day about the fascinating dichotomy of how the creation of the universe plays a role in the belief system of believers and non-believers.
it is the difference between a top-down vs. bottom-up view of reality.
in this post i'm mainly disucssing highly rational, scientific type believers and non-believers, open to fully exploring their belief system, of which i have talked to many.. to the non-believer, the creation event, the big bang, is the one utterly unexplainable event.
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simon17
I was thinking the other day about the fascinating dichotomy of how the creation of the universe plays a role in the belief system of believers and non-believers. It is the difference between a top-down vs. bottom-up view of reality. In this post I'm mainly disucssing highly rational, scientific type believers and non-believers, open to fully exploring their belief system, of which I have talked to many.
To the non-believer, the creation event, the Big Bang, is the one utterly unexplainable event. Everything else can be proved, demonstrated, or realistically hypothesized about. The impetus for the Big Bang is, essentially, without understanding. However, as a non-believer, I've built up everything I know about the world through science, exploration, confirmation, and I am ok with having that one pinnacle point in my world-view go unexplained for now.
To the believer who is open to test their beliefs fully with rationality, the reverse is true. I've argued with such ones, JWs or not, over things like 607, the Great Flood, 1914, generations, laws, morality and on and on. And at the end, when I counter all their arguments, I ask, 'give me one thing that you can absolutely hang your hat on; one thing you feel I can not touch of which you are absolutely sure.' And at this they say, 'when I look at creation, I know something must have created it.' From the top, they place the apex of their belief as being that 'a God' MUST exist, and that pre-supposed conviction trickles down and influences every other belief or decision they decide to have.
So ultimately I found it interesting: The creation of the universe for me is the one thing of which I am fully unsure. For the believer, the same event instead serves as the one unshakeable proof.
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First potential relationship since leaving WT, and I've been well screwed over.
by ronweasley inhi all i'm new to this, i joined because from what i can see this is the best ex jw forum out there.. anyway i'm male, 20, live in uk and left the wtbts after 2 years of being a student.. there was this girl called natalya and she has really took me on one hell of a ride.
she was very helpful in my exit, because she often had debates with me and tried again and again to help me see sense.
anyway we dated before i found the truth and to be honest, i never really stopped having these feelings for her even though we fell out a few times.
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simon17
I don't see what she did wrong. She basically said she didn't want a relationship when you told her your feelings. Since then she seems to have expressed some interest but 9 times out of 10, you don't respond to it (as you said). So she's hanging out and, yes, sleeping with other guys. Thats what happens...
Good luck in the future, there are plenty of great girls out there.
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Were Blacks Treated Differently Than Whites In Your Congregation?
by minimus ini was raised in a city hall.
it was pretty evenly split.
i wasn't raised in a blacks vs. whites environment.
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simon17
No, I didn't see any evidence of racial prejudices during my time.
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So how will / should the Watchtower respond publicly when the news of their lawsuit loss hits the news?
by sir82 inin case anyone missed it:.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/227017/1/watchtower-found-guilty-ruled-to-pay-7-million-to-1-victim-wow.
the wt has been found negligent and ordered to pay $7 million to a vistim of child abuse, plus punitive damages (not yet determined).. the punitive damages may well exceed the $7 million.
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simon17
Is this a rare thing? I thought there have been a bunch of settlements against JWs for this sort of thing?
Anyway, I doubt 99% of witnesses will hear of this and it will just be entirely ignored and not addressed at all.
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What was the weirdest thing ever said to you as a JW?
by falseprophet ini was about 8-10 years old and twice i had people tell me that i should not pioneer but to go to bethel because i "was governing body material".. one was a co and another a do.. i didn't even believe in god, never have so that makes it weird!.
what wierd things were told?.
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simon17
I always liked this one: "The taking of offense is like a double edged sword... and we are tempted to use it like a gun"
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My heart goes out to poor Caleb
by JWB ina quick personal take on the new wts dvd for kids:.
1) the father seems like a robot (reminded me of arnie in the terminator).. .
2) the mother has a split personality, one moment she's all nice the next she's flipping out when the programming takes over.. .
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simon17
"My heart goes out to poor Caleb"
Don't worry: like magic, Caleb isn't real :)
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My email to my mother - sorry a bit long
by darthweef inhello - i am new here .. just joined a couple of days ago, and have enjoyed the bit of lurking that i have done.
a breif history, i was raised as a jw, was active until i was 36, and was a regular pioneer for 7 years and a ministerial servant for 5 years, and was one when i left.
my reasons for leaving are not important at this point, but i have spent the last year or so researching the flood and more extensively the theory of evolution.. i have finally decided to broach the topic with my mother since after all this time, the last of my jw friends and my brother and sister have all decided that they should shun me now, and i want to make a last ditch effort to convey to my mother that i didn't leave the organization so i could do lines of coke off a cheap hooker, but because i actually believe that this is not the truth.. i'd love some feedback on the email and what you think the possibility of it actually breaking through the "permafrost" created by the society.
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simon17
"I won't burden this forum with a running back and forth between my mother and I, especially since I won't be responding to anymore emails, and I doubt that she will either.
I certainly understand if you prefer to keep your communications private. Let me just say that there are a lot of people in situations like yours, except they desperately do NOT want to let their family shun them and would be quite devestated if it happened. They also are tempted at corresponding with their family in this manner. So I think for us, seeing the exchange that you have is very therepuetic and helpful, because we can see how the conversation will go without actually having to risk it. I thank you for sharing what you have, and will read any other communication you post.
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My nine grievances against the Society from BEFORE I had ever visited a single apostate website...
by cedars ini mentioned on a recent thread by irondork that my wife recently showed me a handwritten list of grievances i had against the society from before i had ever visited a single apostate website (apart from wikipedia).
the thread is below:.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/226934/1/how-did-you-long-timers-do-it-before-the-internet-ray-franz-books-abundant-information.
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simon17
"It's wrong to claim that the increase in publisher numbers is evidence of Holy Spirit. What about the millions who follow Catholicism or Islam?"
One of the classic always-win arguments.
If Witnesses are increasing its evidence of Holy Spirit and God's approval.
If other religions are increasing it is becasue broad and spacious is the way leading off the destruction, as Jesus well predicted
It Witnesses are decreasing its evidence of Satan's continual attacks on true worship, and those who remain true indeed are on a small and narrow pathway.
If other religions are stagnant or decreasing it is because people are seeing the spiritual hypocrisy of these organizations turning people off
If Witnesses undergo persecution or have laws limiting them it is because Jesus foretold the world would hate and persecute his true brothers on account of his name
If other religions undergo persectuion or have laws limiting the it is evidence of the "waters" of Babylon the Great being dried up as foretold in Revelation.
Its like they've built mazes that double back on one another so you can never get out, everything leads to confirmation.