My nine grievances against the Society from BEFORE I had ever visited a single apostate website...

by cedars 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • cedars

    Hi everyone

    I mentioned on a recent thread by irondork that my wife recently showed me a handwritten list of grievances I had against the Society from BEFORE I had ever visited a single apostate website (apart from Wikipedia). The thread is below:

    I wrote the list just over two years ago, approximately 12 months before my decision to become inactive and start investigating JW-related matters even further.

    One poster has asked if it is possible to see the list, so I thought I would replicate it as a thread for discussion.

    Here are the nine grievances I had as an indoctrinated dub prior to my awakening (I've added the odd word here or there to make it read better!):

    1. It's wrong to claim that the increase in publisher numbers is evidence of Holy Spirit. What about the millions who follow Catholicism or Islam?
    2. The majority of prophectic interpretations revolve around 1919 and the activities, preaching or persecution of JWs in the 20th Century (especially the leadership). I believe that these prophetic interpretations are made to the extent that bible prophecies attributed to the 20th Century JWs possibly outweigh the number of bible prophecies foretelling the Messiah in the Hebrew scriptures. I will need to check [I never did!]. Would Russell, Rutherford and their associates be more important than Christ?
    3. The view of masturbation as being any kind of sin (i.e. a "secret sin") is completely unscriptural. No bible verses talk about touching your own genitals. It's a pharasaic "hedge" doctrine.
    4. Evolution COULD have been used by Jehovah to create. There is no scriptural reason why not. For example, take plate tectonics. Amos 4:13 refers to Jehovah as the "former of the mountains" but mountains are constantly being formed, so creation is an ongoing process - that is scientifically proven.
    5. The prophecy of the King of the North and the King of the South - the interpretation is WRONG. How can Ancient Rome 'become' Hitler's Third Reich in one prophecy, but 'become' Anglo-America in others? The Bible wouldn't be inconsistent.
    6. The Faithful and Discreet Slave is obsessed with discouraging further education - i.e. the foreword to the 2010 Examining the Scriptures Daily implies that money is the only motivation for higher learning, and NOT greater knowledge. The Faithful Slave are afraid of us knowing too much. It's also hypocritical to use quotes from scholars/professors but dissuade people from becoming them.
    7. The "light getting brighter" is used to explain errors/regressions by the Faithful Slave. If the Faithful Slave really have Holy Spirit deep in the last days, then nothing they have to say will be wrong or unscriptural. If there are errors (which there are) this means the Slave Class has been temporarily given FALSE information by the Holy Spirit, which would never happen. Implying that it could is itself a grievance of the Holy Spirit.
    8. The Governing Body claims to "represent" the Faithful and Discreet Slave. However, as Wikipedia observes, they don't communicate with any other "anointed" ones regarding their teachings/doctrines, so how can they be said to represent such ones?
    9. The numbers of anointed/memorial partakers has suspiciously been "suspended" over the last few decades (i.e. at a constant 7 or 8 thousand). Could the Faithful Slave Class be masking almost non-existent numbers in order to "delay" Armageddon?

    That last point, point 9, has obviously been proven to be wrong since I wrote it. The numbers have sky-rocketed over the past two years since the Society abandoned 1935 as having any significance in the gathering of anointed ones. However, two years ago I suspected that the memorial partaker numbers MUST have been tampered with for them to hover at such a constant level of 8 thousands or so. Obviously, as things stand at the moment, the Governing Body likely wishes they would decrease if anything!

    Point 2, about my suspicion that the number of prophetic scriptures in the bible that the Governing Body attributes to the early Witnesses outweighs the number of scriptures attributed to the Messiah has never been taken further. It may be that there is something there, but I never looked into it in any more depth. It would certainly be interesting if the total number of words in scriptures supposedly foretelling the "Slave Class" outnumbered those foretelling the master.

    Point 4 about evolution does not necessarily represent my current beliefs as regards the origins of the universe. If anything, I am agnostic at this precise moment, with a leaning towards the universe having an intelligent beginning. However, my point was that SCRIPTURALLY there is nothing in the bible that would prohibit God from using evolution as a "tool" to accomplish his creative purpose. To denounce evolution may in fact be disrespecting a facet of God's creation. Those were my thoughts back then, and still very much are now - although I'm slightly more confused about things at the present time!

    Point 5 may have been superceded somewhat since the "new light" at last year's convention re. the image. I noticed that whereas the Daniel book has the Anglo American "world power" beginning at the calfs, the convention leaflet pointed to the feet (or iron mixed with clay). My point back then was that the iron in the statue's legs was said to be BOTH Rome AND Anglo America, so how could Rome become Nazi Germany (an opponent of Anglo-America) in another prophecy from the very same bible book? Clearly the Society didn't think that one through properly when they were writing the Daniel book.

    Point 7 (about increasing light) is interesting for me to look back on. I wrote it before my "breakthrough" moment in which I looked up each and every verse used by the Society to support increasing light and discovered that NONE of them agreed with the concept as it is explained in the literature. This led to my arriving at the "makeweight" scenario as explained in another post.

    Obviously, after I started doing more research online, I discovered that the above 9 "grievances" were just the tip of a very large iceberg! When I wrote the above list I was completely clueless about Mexico/Malawi and the UN scandal. I didn't even know that there was nothing wrong with blood transfusions! I've certainly come a long way since then.

    Anyway, I hope you all find the above interesting! I would certainly be interested in your comments.

    (As always, if you haven't already taken part in the 2012 JW Survey, please do so!)


  • Bobcat


    Very interesting list and interesting too to be able to look back at where one was at a certain point in the past.

    I had written the Society some years ago about a Bible question I had and it is interesting now to see how I wrote it. Not just the question, but my whole attitude in the letter. I was definitely a 'captive of the mind' at the time. The response I got was one of the things that began my awakening.

    Just as an observation about some of your points:

    Getting a better understanding of Jesus' parable of the faithful slave has revolutionized my thinking in connection with some of your questions above. It has been like toto in the Wizard of Oz pulling back the curtain on the Wizard from Nebraska. The great smokey image of the Wizard (the so-called 'slave class') no longer had any meaning. Now I can see that it's just the GB and the R&F. It's amazing now (and sometimes annoying) to listen at how others speak glowingly of 'the slave class' (and other variants of that).

    The prophecies of Daniel are also of great interest to me. I can tell you this about their most recent "light." (That the Anglo-American power will still be THE dominant world power when the end arrives.) They are going to have to get some "newer light." (Maybe they should see WTWizard's thread here.)

    Incidentally, in Dan 11:44, just before the great tribulation starts, the king of the North 'hears reports out of the sunrising and the north that disturb him and cause him to go forth in a great rage.' I theorized that if the coming great tribulation and the 1st century great tribulation upon the Jews were parallel to each other, then, Dan 11:44 would have a parallel in the first century. If you have access to Josephus, here is what I found: Wars of the Jews 3.1.1-2. (Or you can go straight to it here.) (In the 1st century, Rome was the king of the North.)

    In connection with evolution, I think CT Russell allowed for the idea that the animals may have evolved some. But definitely not humans since that would rule out the idea of a first sin by the first man. To me, the great ability of animals to adapt makes it hard to get a handle on this. Adaptibility and the idea of Evolution seem to overlap a lot.

    At any rate, take care.

  • cantleave

    It's a shame that more active dubs don't start thinking!!

  • MidwichCuckoo

    The 'New Light' is just plain wrong. Are we to believe that God decides to let his 'Organisation' not only believe crap, but preach it, then once the R&F firmly believe said crap, He then decides to tweak/change it? There isn't really much point in 'believing' anything the Org says, as it's always subject to change, lol.

  • snowbird

    I never believed that "doing/not doing good to Christ's spiritual brothers" would have any bearing on a person's being selected as a sheep or goat.

    Also, I considered the parable of the faithful and discreet slave to be just that - a parable.

    This was before I even had Internet connection.

  • MidwichCuckoo
    8. The Governing Body claims to "represent" the Faithful and Discreet Slave

    Yep, another one that bothered me (not now, as frankly I think anyone who claims to be of this class has a mental issue), IF there are 8,000 (or whatever the current expanding figure is, lol) 'annointed' Worldwide (when I say 'Worldwide', I'm guessing Western/'wealthy' countries - God, it seems, like extraterrestials, only mostly 'visits' Americans) and they all pooled their God-given gifts, then the Society could only why doesn't the FDS concentrate these chosen few? If God 'chose' all of the 144,000, then why can a handful rule over the others..?

    Bottom line is none of them are 'special', just dellusional. And I suspect the FDS believe that too.

  • John_Mann

    Cedars why don't you came to the bright side of the force?

    In atheism most of you actual confusion will be gone (anothers will came too but they are a lot more interesting).

  • Londo111


    It is good to see your advanced thinking processes at this time. I was struggling with the idea of Jehovah poised to eternally kill seven billion people…I was finding it hard to love such a God.

    Like you…point 4 was another thing that bothered me. I love your reasoning in regard to plate tectonics. I will have to use that some day. I was having a problem taking the Edenic story literally…and it seemed to me that even if I took the Genesis story of the Flood as written, the Hebrew words used did not necessarily mean a global event…rather 'land' instead of 'earth'.

    Akin to point three, I thought the ban of certain intimate practices within a marriage had no scriptural support at all.

    Of course, as for the rest of your points, I was entirely blind. I had a brother who professed to be of the anointed in my congregation…I was in awe of him. He was a nice, kind brother, but…the mental worship I was giving him was idolatry.

  • simon17

    "It's wrong to claim that the increase in publisher numbers is evidence of Holy Spirit. What about the millions who follow Catholicism or Islam?"

    One of the classic always-win arguments.

    If Witnesses are increasing its evidence of Holy Spirit and God's approval.

    If other religions are increasing it is becasue broad and spacious is the way leading off the destruction, as Jesus well predicted

    It Witnesses are decreasing its evidence of Satan's continual attacks on true worship, and those who remain true indeed are on a small and narrow pathway.

    If other religions are stagnant or decreasing it is because people are seeing the spiritual hypocrisy of these organizations turning people off

    If Witnesses undergo persecution or have laws limiting them it is because Jesus foretold the world would hate and persecute his true brothers on account of his name

    If other religions undergo persectuion or have laws limiting the it is evidence of the "waters" of Babylon the Great being dried up as foretold in Revelation.

    Its like they've built mazes that double back on one another so you can never get out, everything leads to confirmation.

  • dreamgolfer

    Bravo! thank you for providing that information - it is a pleasure to read


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