this thing (along with jehovah's capability to know everything before, wich leads to predetermination) bothered me the most while i was a practicant jw, and the topic of jws mourning brought it back to me.
maybe someone could shed a light on how jws cope with this problem.
i've seen this mentioned at other places too, so it's not just me who thought of this problem.. as we all know, jw doctrine tells that absolutely nothing survives the death.
so a resurrected person is somebody, who thinks he is me.....
TOH: the problem with the life-force going back to god is, that it is interchangable, not personal, because if it were personal, whats the diffrence to a soul ?
another problem: we say, emory will be restored too, but if I loose all my memory (amnesia) I will be a different personaltiy, but it still would be me....,
I dont know, does anybody has some aspirin ?
for any brother who is a jehovah's witness, the goal is put before them to reach out for the privilege of being an elder.
i can only speak for myself, but being born into the religion, i wanted to be an elder since i was 5. i would have much rather wanted to be a doctor or engineer, but those are the breaks..... i'll skip the part about what it takes to reach out, all the crap you have to put up with as a ministerial servant to get appointed, and go straight to the reality.. i know many elders who sincerely just wanted to be shepherds.
i did want the spotlight.
interesting read, I observe some elders, being appointed young, acting as real jerks, maybe they will go through similar experience later ? there is always hope ;-)
My story would be different, I did not really want to be an elder, but when they asked, i agreed (partly flattered, partly felt the responsibility)
I was on a few JC, only dfd some, where there was no other chance, in all other cases, mercy whenever possible..
but those few cases really bothered me, to be somebody deciding over life and death (even in a spiritual sense) is something, that I felt is over my head ( well now I know, its over the head of any human). I felt guilty back then and feel more so even now...
My take was and somehow still is to serve the brothers, to help them through difficult times , to soften the strict rules of the WTS, in an attempt to silence my conscience....time will show how long that may work before i have to make an ultimate decison....
However, its also good to share with others and to read simlar experiences, since there is usually nobody to talk about this things...
this thing (along with jehovah's capability to know everything before, wich leads to predetermination) bothered me the most while i was a practicant jw, and the topic of jws mourning brought it back to me.
maybe someone could shed a light on how jws cope with this problem.
i've seen this mentioned at other places too, so it's not just me who thought of this problem.. as we all know, jw doctrine tells that absolutely nothing survives the death.
all this reasoning seems logic, however, IF the bible is Gods word (for the sake of further discussion, we just assume this now), then it speaks of a resurection (biblical examples given Lazarus, jesus etc)
so, there is a difference between recreation and resurection, the later being a technique God uses, where he does not make a copy, but really restores the "old" person itself, how, we dont know, its a miracle, but since God is also master over time, who knows, maybe that way.....
this thing (along with jehovah's capability to know everything before, wich leads to predetermination) bothered me the most while i was a practicant jw, and the topic of jws mourning brought it back to me.
maybe someone could shed a light on how jws cope with this problem.
i've seen this mentioned at other places too, so it's not just me who thought of this problem.. as we all know, jw doctrine tells that absolutely nothing survives the death.
yeah, it hurts
however, when the "soul" is just the combination of matter (dust from the earth) and an impersonal life-force , then a resurreection would be a re-creation right ? then you would be a copy of yourself, with all the memory restored, you would appear to others certainly as the same person, they could not tell a difference, but what about your real self ?
what about the free will ?
all this thoughts scared me actually
this thing (along with jehovah's capability to know everything before, wich leads to predetermination) bothered me the most while i was a practicant jw, and the topic of jws mourning brought it back to me.
maybe someone could shed a light on how jws cope with this problem.
i've seen this mentioned at other places too, so it's not just me who thought of this problem.. as we all know, jw doctrine tells that absolutely nothing survives the death.
its so funny, because the other night, during some boring points in the meeting, I was pondering over the exact same question...
it comes down to the question: what constitues an individual being ? just the "matter" or is there more ?
barbara wanted me to post this info she shared recently at a speech she gave at a seminar.
all comments welcome.
peace out .. .
TOH: I agree with you, its similar here, in my congo are quit some with higher education, and while some elder talked with some, who attend university, it was in a very mild and friendly, non-pushing way, I guess it depends on individual elders and the set-up of a congo.
I remember, in my case, years ago, it was more strongy discouraged to get higher education, but I would have done it anyway, I had other reasons not too in the end...
recently i had a discussion with my wife..she always feels guilty for not doing enough for jehovah.. i tried to slowly show her, that we are not saved by works, that fear of armageddon should not motivate us at all , she agreed with everything, then she said something like "well, we have to know the scripures better, because one time we will not know, whom to follow, we have to know, what the scriptures tell us".
wow, i thought, there is a reasonable basis, i can built on, to slowly show her the corruption of the gb, but i have to be careful, baby-steps, i really had to hold back from just unloading everything i learned the past few months (which btw, just confirmed my own doubts i had for years).
next, on appropriate time, i will point out more stupitidy and controling issues, like in the new wt (about prayer and married couple) or the rules in the gods love book.....but i have to be careful, because she is were i was just a while ago, being loyal to gods org.... .
recently I had a discussion with my wife..she always feels guilty for not doing enough for jehovah.
I tried to slowly show her, that we are not saved by works, that fear of Armageddon should not motivate us at all , she agreed with everything, then she said something like "well, we have to know the scripures better, because one time we will not know, whom to follow, we have to know, what the scriptures tell us"
wow, I thought, there is a reasonable basis, I can built on, to slowly show her the corruption of the GB, but I have to be careful, baby-steps, I really had to hold back from just unloading everything i learned the past few months (which btw, just confirmed my own doubts I had for years)
Next, on appropriate time, i will point out more stupitidy and controling issues, like in the new WT (about prayer and married couple) or the rules in the gods love book.....but I have to be careful, because she is were I was just a while ago, being loyal to Gods org...
another gem from the same edition - article to be studied december 28 - january 3 (which most will miss lol coz of summer vacation) entitled "what do your prayers say about you?
" page 6 para 19 reads:.
19 when we are being represented in public prayer, we need to display reverential "fear of god.
omg, things like that make me really upset,
control freaks, what about the Three-fold-cord ???? man, I dont know how long I can stand this....
if you've been reading here for long, this won't come as news to you.. i don't have my elder book with me right now, but here's the gist of what it says about what the elders should do when they find out a jw talked to a dfed family member.. 'generally, disfellowshiping is not necessary when a congregation member speaks to a close relative who is dfed.
provided there is no condoning or justifying of the wrong course.'.
that is a paraphrase, but i'm pretty sure that "justifying of the wrong course" is close to verbatim.. two questions:.
here, we had some instances of relatives associating with d´f ones, they got counseled and in one case even a marking talk was given, and one elder threatened of a JC, if the course of that sister wouldnt change,...
well , she knew from that time on, how to hide it, I think she didnt change much...
personally, while I was opposed having contact to a dfd, even if related, I would have never endorsed a JC on them...after all Jesus told us mercy , right ?
admittedly, now I see the whole matter quite different...
last weekend we were invited at a family of jw.. they are some decent people, reasonable, realistic, balanced, having good jobs and a house, certianly took care of their future pension, and will give their child a good education.. you can discuss with them many different topics, and they are not blind to mistakes of brothers or even the leaders.... however, they are dubs, both being raised in the "truth", they dont know anything else really..... we have quit a number of friends like that, being down to earth, not extreme, have a good life, and still "strong" in their faith.... the other day, we also did a congregation-trip, and while you find everywhere some selfrighteous puffed-up "pioneer", "wannabe-elders" or real"elders" or "elderettes", most of the folk was fine, no worry about anybody behaving badly, getting drunk or something like that.. i was thinking, it wouldnt be so bad to be a witness, if...... yes, its the "if" that makes one worry., the mind-control thing of the gb.. anybody going through similar thoughts ?.
well, I´m IN, thats the problem, I cant get out (family reasons) and I cant even fade, for the same reasons, it would kill my parents..
there might he hope to convince my wife, but her and my family are JW since decades, its all their life, they never be convinced otherwise...
so i try to find the good, the bad and the ugly in the Borg...
