Posts by freddo

203

Anyone heard of Watchtower policy change concerning pedophiles

by Robert_V_Frazier in

i'm passing this along from someone else on another discussion board.

the claim of any substantive change in the policy on pedophiles is news to me.

can anybody verify or falsify this claim?.

freddo

A question for Barbara (and thank you so much for what I believe is your highly principled stand) - is there anything else as big as the payouts of 2007 that WT had to make that is coming down the pipeline against the WT society? Please say yes; because bucks is the only thing that will make this organization change it's abuse policies.

Pedo child abusing scum:-

When Dateline/Panorama came out there was a lot of concern in part of the JW community - the part where abuse had happened (no surprise) and matters were dealt with unsatisfactorily. I would not trust a member of the gb or a branch committee or a travelling overseer to mix scripture, jw policies and legal and financial considerations into a child abuse policy any more than I would trust myself to outrun Usain Boult!

Not related to pedo's but the 2 witness rule -

When I was an elder, a judicial committee I was chairman of accepted two independent witnesses when two women claimed they had had sex (consensual) with a MS in separate incidents (i.e. - not a threesome!) and he denied doing anything more than kiss either woman. One had occured a couple of months before the JC and the other about two years previously and the earlier one was still disfellowshipped from admitting her guilt and walking away seeing the MS get off scot-free in her case (only one witness at that time). We took her earlier testimony as one witness because it had the ring of truth about it. We didn't automatically accept their word or his but also checked for collusion which we believed was absent.

The MS who "had connections" threatened to go to the CO because we were accepting the word of a D/F individual and we said that when she gave her testimony she was a JW and that we could consider the testimony of a non-believer anyway. If he did go to the CO and the CO backed us then we said that would show lack of repentance and "tie our hands" with our judgement. We asked him to go away and consider everything for 48 hours and come back and re-consider his plea. He phoned the next day and confessed and he got removed as an MS and a public reproof. The second sister got a private reproof.

One of those brothers on the committee is still a died in the wool elder but I know he went to the police in 2003 about a historical abuse case he was involved in (where he was part of a jc that disfellowshipped a 19 year old abuser). But he didn't inform the authorities at the time (1989) because it was against society policy. So that bears out, as if it were needed, any testimony from abused posters that the WT covered over routinely certainly pre late 1990's and tacitly encouraged covering up to a lessening degree right up until now IMO.

So sometimes it is a matter of judgement. And many elders would have and sadly still would IMO not have been so thorough and independent as I honestly believe we were.

Until the society instructs any elder who hears about abuse to inform the authorities then their hands will remain filthy.

203

Anyone heard of Watchtower policy change concerning pedophiles

by Robert_V_Frazier in

i'm passing this along from someone else on another discussion board.

the claim of any substantive change in the policy on pedophiles is news to me.

can anybody verify or falsify this claim?.

freddo

I like AK Jeff's directions and would add:-

... send two independent elders to any court or other proceedings (child protection meetings etc) that they are allowed by Caeser's authorities to attend. Instruct them to take notes of any testimony/findings and present them to the body of elders. These elders along with the court decision will serve as additional witnesses (to anyone else who wishes to come forward to the elders) in a judicial case that will be formed after Caeser's authorities have had their say.

100

WTS attends as a NGO to OSCE in July- 4 branches present!

by yknot in

so i was just cruising www.extj.com/foro.

mary received a interesting bit of osce information via a brother (peter) from germany....... http://www.extj.com/foro/showthread.php?t=14643.

here is the pdf she has uploaded..... http://www.osce.org/documents/odihr/2009/07/38763_en.pdf.

freddo

Eet ees simples folks!

The Watchtower is only taking "fractions of the U.N." not "whole U.N."!

Of course you cannot take the four main components of the U.N. but anything that is only a fraction of the above four main components is for the individual to decide.

For example, a Christian may ask himself:- "How much of the lifeblood of the UN am I taking in to my veins - is it a whole component like Malawi political cards or is it simply a Mexican bribe er.... way of easing the passage of official sanction?"

19

Girlfriend's angry emails to her vacationing boyfriend

by Yizuman in

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1918771. .

freddo

What Six of Nine said.

This story is a fabrication; rubbish; nonsense. It is there for entertainment. It was lightly humorous.

The first couple of paragraphs show it cannot possibly have any credence.

It is sad that gullible people actually believe this story to be true. It is sad when they allow their critical thinking ability to be switched off and to allow their prejudices to be reinforced.

Mind you I wish my own gullibility reading wasn't "off the scale" when I believed all things JW!

23

No One to Carry On!

by AK - Jeff in

i recall the 'core' families that made up our little congregation in the 60's and 70's.

i had not thought about it, but the very vast majority of those families have left zero members carrying on the 'legacy' of the 'troof'.

here is the way it breaks down - the names have been changed to protect the innocent [or guilty].. the colsons in 1970 - dad, mom and two sons.

freddo

And just look at the quality of what's coming down pipeline from the outside.

Males:- Autistic, behaviour problems, ADHD, unemployable, personality problems.

Females:- Simple minded, no husband (or divorced from an abuser, waster or if present see above), kids in tow.

Last few appointments in my congo were:-

MS early 20's superfine-elder's son (slightly manic - elder dad, not son) whisked off to bethel two months later so no use to our congo.

Elder 45 yr old single personality disordered divorced man.

MS 31 yr old simple minded single bloke who is a "trekkie type".

15

Video on 1975 for JWs

by Mickey mouse in

jw
friends

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy1e7miqth4.

freddo

DJK - There were two books with the title life everlasting, the one shown above which I studied as a youngster and a later one.

That video is awesome - understated and right on the point. I remember all of it.

Why do the oldies still believe or suppress their doubts? Pride, hard-wired, desperation, company of others, "where do we go?" or a mixture of all.

41

Another JW Caught in the Act

by jamiebowers in

this was posted on facebook by a fellow exjw:.

http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=115905575893&h=iugq7&u=dfsnw&ref=nf.

.

freddo

Another sicko JW. I hope this one hits the national press - Daily Mail, Sun, Local TV or BBC.

Now I know this isn't definite but let's imagine his wife is a jw and unlike the silly wife of Michael Porter she decides she wants a divorce. Imagine the Judicial Committee.

Chairman: "Well Sister Perv's Wife we do empathise with you in this terrible situation, but we need to know exactly what happened to determine if pornea has taken place and whether you are free to divorce Bro. Perv scripturally."

SPW: " But he *** the old lady with a ***!!! Surely that counts?

Ch: "We'll have to consider carefully as Bro.Perv is in the slammer er um being detained at present and we cannot gain his testimony..."

Later: (Chairman is on blower to London UK beth-hell)

Ch: "... so that's our problem, what do we do?"

Service Desk Company man:- "Very difficult, do you have a tape measure? Well if you measure from the kneecap in an upward direction (in metric because of EU laws) and divide by 10% of the dill and the cummin (no pun intended) then you can determine whether this gross uncleanness with greediness or pornea thus allowing our sister to divorce."

Ch: "Ok, boss, whatever you say."

SDCM: " Absolutely right old boy, but you arrived at this conclusion yourself with no outside help didn't you?"

Ch: "Err... OK, but if we encourage her to take him back and be a better wife, attentive of his manly needds wouldn't that be better for the organisation errr Jehovah's name?"

SDCM: "Sounds good but don't get us in the papers or being sued whatever you do or we're all in the ****

381

Were you or someone you know sexually molested by a Jehovah's Witness ?

by flipper in

due to the fact there are about 27,000 members of this religion that are known pedophiles, and the information about it is kept in a secret database file, i wonder how many lurking jw's as well as others are aware of the severity of this problem?

remember, it's 27,000 pedophiles that they know about.

what about the thousands that don't get caught?

freddo

Here's how an elder can act incognito - he goes to the police/child protective services, he tells no-one he has done so, he tells the police that if he is known as helping them then he may be disfellowshipped. The police will respect the confidence. When elder JW's come asking because they are suspicious of him he uses "theocratic warfare". He can tell the police that HQ have got a list of pedo's. When the CO is suspicious and sends his "flunkies" to ask if he (the elder) knows anything about why the police have been to beth-hell he can use "theocratic warfare". (Act dumb)

When the police go to HQ and grill the service desk and they sweat and hmmm and haww and hide behind legal and the service desk sends their flunky CO and local elders to sniff him out he uses theocratic warfare. That's as far as my experience goes.

But if the elder was called to court he can refer to the article that says you tell the truth in court or say nothing. He would choose to speak truthfully before his God. Or if no longer believing in God, his peers.

Removed as an elder? Df'd? If that's what happens when you protect kids then make a huge song and dance threaten to tell of every child molestation case you've heard of, (even if there are none) you go to the media, write to everyone you know and have known over the decades and make them wish they'd left you alone!

34

Today was day 1 of my district cultvention

by JerkhovahsWitless in

jw
friends

some of the memorable moments today would be:.

1) the nutty mother on stage with her little boy who became an unbaptized publisher at 6. i missed his current age, but he was a tiny little kid, couldn't be much older than a couple years over 6. tomorrow he gets baptized.

2) the husband and wife couple who work part-time to pioneer, but wanted to do more so they sold their home, down-sized to one car and made other adjustments to make their lives more simple to put the kingdom first.

freddo

Had the credit card announcement at our DC and a couple of places in the stadium for doing this manned by a couple of sisters. No queues; no-one at all donating this way as I wandered by a few times! Good.

16

is my baptisum as a minor vaild?

by highdose in

as a young minor, barely into my teens i was in a congo that had extreme peer pressure to get baptized.

in fact you were seen as a bad person if you didn't, and everyone else my age was, the threat was that if you were the last to get baptized of your generation then you would be seen as unspiritual.. this and some other things have troubled me since:.

when i came to be baptized i was suffering from an illness that greatly affected my concentration.. when it came to the assembly and i had to stand and answer those two questions i was shaking so much i didn't actauly say anything, in fact my mouth wouldn't open.. i am totaly sure that if i had waited until age 30 to get baptized as jesus did, i never would have got baptized at all.. so my question is: was my baptisum actualy vaild?

freddo

Check out WT 1964 P126 First Paragraph.

"However, it is a different matter when a person was committing a serious wrongdoing at the time of his "dedication" and baptism and even thereafter. If one was habitually sinning, practicing a grievous wrongduring this time, even though ceasing from it some time after his baptism and making advancementin the service of Jehovah, he was in an unclean state before God at the time of his baptism. Such a baptism, as it did not follow a true dedication, would be invalid. If such a person has now foresaken that practice of sin, repented and made a sincere dedication of himself to Jehovah God, he should be rebaptized. (italics added)