Posts by bohm

80

God is not an element both in religious fanaticism and atheism alike

by exWTslave in

in my intimate conversations with many of my atheists friends i have found that their real problem is the human rights abuse of the religious fanaticssomething which god hates (not the lack of proof for gods existence) (means when the religions went to one extreme, their opponents go to another extremethus god is not at all an element in religious fanaticism and atheism alike) atheists shun, belittle or resist proofs for the existence of god, because they fear it will only further strengthen the religion from which the fanaticism arisethus object of atheists attack is fanaticism (not god) .

hence what atheists do is really a service to the humanity (while fanaticism is a crime against humanity).

hence when the atheists ask for proof for the existence of god, one need not take it seriously.

bohm

Kalos: Look, lets just assume all atheists just want to be atheists. We can still discuss what evidence there is for Gods existence. I have only read the first article you cited and this seems to be the most concrete single point:

As this article from Scientific American magazine points out, “It has been estimated that a supercomputer applying plausible rules for protein folding would need 10 to the 127th power years to find the final folded form for even a very short sequence consisting of just 100 amino acids.” And protein folding is only the first step in creating life from lifeless chemicals. Further, random processes would need a heck of a lot longer to fold proteins than would a supercomputer programmed to do so. But, the problem is, the universe is only about 15 billion years old.

Notice what the quotes says: It is computationally demanding to MODEL the folding of proteins. This has absolutely nothing to do with evolution since in nature proteins just fold themselves (or not) depending on the laws of nature. What the author of the article properly want to say is random chance generating a protein that can fold is very implausible, but this is not at all what the quote is related to.

A nearly perfect analogy would be to say wood cannot burn, because modelling how wood burns at the atomic level is computationally hard. The argument is really no better than that.

If I am irrational or not does not change the fact the author seems to lack basic reading comprehension skills.

51

Science is right in its details, but wrong in its direction

by exWTslave in

science observes, studies and analyses the basic nature of all the components constituting the part of any experiment, follows the principle of cause and effect, and come out with equipments that would contribute to our comfort and save us lots of time and energyall of which are ultimately aimed at making life on this earth happier, longer and healthier, thus making this world a better place to live.. yet man day-by-day becomes more and more unhappy and discontented, and world is becoming bitter and bitter!

it means: though science is right in its details, it has gone wrong in its direction.

it failed to rightly judge and assess the true nature of its prime object (man) for whom it works.

bohm

Kalos: But you realise Edger Hoover was not a scientist? Please read his biography, at that time he was spying on nearly everyone of notority. You wrote specifically that: " Scientific community works almost like JWs, " I had in mind the plight of Albert Einstein.

Edger hoover was not by any stretch of the imagination part of the scientific community. If you meant to say Einstein was treated poorly (as were so many others) by Hoover and FBI I do not disagree at all.

80

God is not an element both in religious fanaticism and atheism alike

by exWTslave in

in my intimate conversations with many of my atheists friends i have found that their real problem is the human rights abuse of the religious fanaticssomething which god hates (not the lack of proof for gods existence) (means when the religions went to one extreme, their opponents go to another extremethus god is not at all an element in religious fanaticism and atheism alike) atheists shun, belittle or resist proofs for the existence of god, because they fear it will only further strengthen the religion from which the fanaticism arisethus object of atheists attack is fanaticism (not god) .

hence what atheists do is really a service to the humanity (while fanaticism is a crime against humanity).

hence when the atheists ask for proof for the existence of god, one need not take it seriously.

bohm

exwtslave: Similarly, everything we see is matter, yet matter itself and the way it acts are proofs for the existence of God. Because universe is composed of matter, and, as a system, is sustained by motion. Motion is not a property of matter, and without this motion, all systems such as the solar system …. could not exist.

Okay I think I can agree so far as motion is not a property of matter. However you need to consider what motion is. One way to put this is to say motion is the way two objects change their relationship over time, for instance to say a ball move towards the ground is to say their relationship in space is changing at some rate, the rate being determined by laws of physics. Can we agree so far?

THE NATURAL STATE OF MATTER IS A STATE OF REST. Motion, or change of place, is the effect of an external cause acting upon matter.

this is where the problems begin. Your conception of motion is in essense pre-newtonian. At that time it was thought the natural state of matter was indeed rest and everything would eventually come to rest. Come the advant of newtons laws it was apparent the natural state of matter is to *not change direction or speed* if not acted upon by external forces. In this more modern view the natural state of motion is whatever state it was in previously and whatever forces is acting upon it.

Everything which has hitherto been discovered relates only to the laws by which motion acts, AND NOT TO THE CAUSE OF MOTION.

...another way to put this is to say all we know about motion up to this point is that it is simply determined by laws, i.e. there is no need for an external cause.

Were motion a property of matter, that undiscovered and undiscoverable thing called perpetual motion would establish itself?

but we agreed motion was not a property of matter.

51

Science is right in its details, but wrong in its direction

by exWTslave in

science observes, studies and analyses the basic nature of all the components constituting the part of any experiment, follows the principle of cause and effect, and come out with equipments that would contribute to our comfort and save us lots of time and energyall of which are ultimately aimed at making life on this earth happier, longer and healthier, thus making this world a better place to live.. yet man day-by-day becomes more and more unhappy and discontented, and world is becoming bitter and bitter!

it means: though science is right in its details, it has gone wrong in its direction.

it failed to rightly judge and assess the true nature of its prime object (man) for whom it works.

bohm

Kalos:

When I said " Scientific community works almost like JWs, " I had in mind the plight of Albert Einstein. When he left the convention, and started talking like a messiah, he was treated like an apostate (as JWs treat apostates), and it's history Cofty too must be familiar.

What is the evidence of this? Consider special relativity, it was proposed in 1905 (in a time where scientific communication was much slower today). Nearly the entire scientific establishment within about 5 years. This is pretty remarkable considering how little experimental evidence there was in it's support and legitimate critisism could be possible on that ground.

Are you talking about general relativity or something else?

102

It is official they're selling off Kingdom Halls in Britain

by raymond frantz in

i posted here a week ago some disturbing news for congregations being consolidated in britain.

my goodness that was nothing !

a letter was read today from bethel addressed to all congregations in britain that can only be described as the biggest news for years.the main points:.

bohm

Splash:

Yes, the BOE 2014 March 29th specifically said: "The need for Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls is greater than ever before. At this time, over 13,000 Kingdom Hall projects and 35 Assembly Hall projects are needed worldwide. Much of this need is in parts of the world where the cost of property and building materials is high."

This is the beauty of this move. Selling property serves three goals:

(i) most obviously, they get access to liquid assets, but I think this is the least important bit

More importantly it serves the main goal: create a shortage of kingdom halls. The benefits are twofold:

(ii) it create an obvious sense the WT is expanding: The number of kingdom halls are too few, too crowded and many halls must be build to serve a growing need (see the letter).

(iii) secondly, to build new ones there is an obvious need for money. Everyone can understand this need and see imediate benefits (ones own kingdom hall near the home) and thus the WT can push for donations.

There is NO reason to think this means the WT is financially pressed. This is the obvious strategy to follow if you are in a situation of little or zero growth.

102

It is official they're selling off Kingdom Halls in Britain

by raymond frantz in

i posted here a week ago some disturbing news for congregations being consolidated in britain.

my goodness that was nothing !

a letter was read today from bethel addressed to all congregations in britain that can only be described as the biggest news for years.the main points:.

bohm

...and in a few years: jehovah has blessed his organization with growth such that most kingdom halls are now overcrowded. Please donate what you can such that we can buy more land for jehovah

443

Zone Visit: An Announcement That Will "Test Your Faith"

by breakfast of champions in

this is the scuttlebutt in one of the "bethel congregations" by us.. no details as to exactly what this "faith-testing" announcement might be.. anyone else hear any of this pre-zone visit hype?.

.

bohm

bla bla satan bla bla evil bla bla worldly bla bla higher education bla bla test your faith amen.

23

Hypocritical video on jw.org "what's a real friend."

by stuckinarut2 in

have you watched the 4 min animated white board drawing video on jw.org called "what's a real friend?".

it is one of the most hypocritical pieces they have produced!.

it goes into detail explaining that real friends "don't judge you, dont talk about you behind your back, don't hold grudges, don't expect you to conform, and encourage individuality!".

bohm

What's a real friend?

Learn from Jehovah. A real friend is someone who:

Expect you to obey him
Expect you to worship him
Will order you to commit various crimes up to an including genocide
Will instruct you when to execute family members
Love for you to make him barbeque, but never shares (except in some cases his special friends, the priests)
Will hurt others to show how much he cares for you and deserve your respect
Will knock up your wife if you cannot
Will give you women to rape if you behave as he expect
Are ready to punish you every time you do not do exactly as he expect however:
if you meet certain conditions he will "forgive" you
You can choose not to be jehovahs friend, only his enemy

Jehovah. A true friend. Who happens to behave like a fucked up african warlord.

69

Evidence Regarding the Evolution of Cetaceans - Whales etc

by cofty in

this excellent little video sumamrises some of the evidence for the evolutionary history of cetaceans.. if focuses on comparative anatomy, embryology, fossils and dna.. .... .

.

bohm

Geh Jhine, it is allmost as if you took the talkorigins page for creationist quotemining and desided to remove the context for the quotes:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/quotes/mine/part1-4.html

Notice that the quotes you have cited out of context are about 30 years old and (supposedly) discuss a fossil record full of gaps. This thread discuss the fossil record of cetaceans which has been dramatically expanded in the past decades and contain many transitional forms. Now if you think about those two things for a moment you will realise the fossil record today is more full and contain more transitional forms than it did 30 years ago, and the same point could be made regarding nearly any other larger group. Now how does that fit in with the creationist hypothesis?

82

Awake January 2015: How did life begin? - More misquotes

by Designer Stubble in

[quote]some might assume that a scientifically-minded person would pick evolution and that a religious person would pick creation.

but not always.. rama singh, professor of biology at canadas mcmaster university, says: the opposition to evolution goes beyond religious fundamentalism and includes a great many people from educated sections of the population.[/quote].

end-of-quote in awake.

bohm

Marked. Interesting.

It is good to see they wheel out good old Behe.