Posts by Hyghlandyr

39

Are you a doer or a talker?

by Maverick in

there are three kinds of people in the world.

doers; say what they want to do and most times get it done.

talkers; who think they are doers, but something always happens to prevent them from actually doing the things they say they want to do.

Is Jehovah an invention of Jewish imagination??? The fact seem obvious!

by frankiespeakin in

yes, if we think of god as a "transcendant" above everything and then when we think of the biblical jehovah, we come up short 51 cards of a deck of 52.

he is so human,,,, come on,,,,, that to me is proof enough of the preposition that he is just the:

"figment of the jewish imagination"

Let's start this by stating that a challenge to a person's claim to divine inspiration, is not a challenge to the divine. The question about the invention of Jehovah, leads us thus to question the claims made about her by the bible writers, and her historical developement from tribal deity to Monotheistic God. It also forces us to question those that translate, or mistranslate, those writers. Are our translations accurate? Do they present the view that the writers of the extant documents had? Do the documents that we have now, even if in the original languages, reflect correctly those writers, or were they changed through the centuries? Are the things we have been told that they said, truly what they said?

If we start with the belief that the extant manuscripts are accurate, we can then proceed that they contain, at least, what their writers believed to be true, or what they were trying to convince others of. This is crucial. Why? Because there are many things we are told that they believed, which upon closer examination, we must be very dubious about.

One of those things, is that Jehovah was the Monotheistic deity of the Hebrews. That any time they worshipped other gods, they were doing so in disobedience to the religion of the hebrews, whether or not their deity was real. That the bible contains information on how to worship this deity, Jehovah. It is filled with the history of her creation of the world, heavens and earth, her dealings with her people Israel, her punishments of them for their disobedience and her rewarding for their worship. That she solely created everything, was almighty, the mother of the hebrew people, their sole deity. That she refused to share her place with any other. The lead question then here is, was Jehovah promoted in the hebrew writings as a monotheistic god?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:1

This seems pretty certain. Assuming that the copies of Genesis that are extant are as accurate as originally written, there it is, a single monotheistic god. Except that the word translated god there is no El, god. It is Elohim. Now many of you who were Jehovah's Witnesses know that Elohim is plural. You are also aware of the Christian and Jewish arguement that in this and any other instance wherein Elohim is claimed to apply to the monotheistic Hebrew deity, it represents a plurality of majesty, not a plurality of persons or deities. The very same word Elohim, when applied to any other nation, is always then to represent a plurality of deities. Not a plurality of majesty. When I say men, in speaking about Irish people, I mean only a single Irish person, namely me. When you say men speaking of spanish people, well clearly you mean multiple spanish people. Interesting.

Elohim throughout though is not used to mean majesty. Only in those instances when a monotheist is confronted with the bible writings clear indication of polytheism of the worship that it is promoting, is this claim made. Elohim is applied not only to Gods and Goddesses, but also to Judges, Angels, Kings, Divine Ones, and others of authority. In each of these instances it is always plural. Only when it is applied to one of the many deities that the bible promotes, is it claimed that it is singular, but plural in majesty. Never, for instance, is King David referred to as Elohim.

Another place this leads us, in examining the name of Jehovah and her interactions with her people israel, are her supposed other names. El Elyon for instance. Or El Shaddai. In all dozens of claimed names for her in the hebraic old testament. In all of these, they are claimed to be explanations of her various qualities, her majesty, her way of dealing with her people, her promises, her power, her righteousness, and other aspects of her actions or her personality. But always, we are told, they point to the single hebrew deity, Jehovah, Yahweh, Eloah, Elohim, El.

It is interesting to note though that in each case these supposed descriptors of JHVH are identical to the names of the many deities of the peoples that were living in her land. The single deity of the hebrews is called by the very same names as the deities of the other tribes living around them! Yet we are told that these names are only names of a single deity when applied to a god of the writers of the hebrew testaments. Many deities when the writer is writing about his enemies. The customs, clothing, names of deity/deities, marraige relations, religious morals, codes, laws, languages, sacrificial practices, temple settings, are all nearly identical among all of these tribes, including the hebrews. Yet we are told once again that the hebrews are to be distinguished from their neighbors as being monotheistic instead of polytheistic. And of course thus superior. This despite the very same names for hebrew deity that exist for canaanite deity.

On polytheism there is often a misunderstanding that so-called monotheists have. It is believed by them usually that polytheists believe literally in the existence of this or that deity as a walking breathing person interacting with other persons. That this or that deity is in opposition to another deity. That in that opposition is an attempt to acquire worship and so forth. Often however, not always, polytheists believe that each deity is simply a reflection of some aspect of life. Sometimes the deities are allegorical in nature and thus archetypes. Other times they are believed to be literal incarnations, but while appearing to be in conflict, as in a water deity or spirit contending with a fire deity or spirit, they are ultimately merely reflections of the circle of life. In many polytheistic circles the ultimate spark of life is from the grand deity, or energy. We are all in many of these cultures as divine as the deity, in fact we are the deity. Thus he made them in his image. (Our image...the image of the Elohim, the Divine ones)

The examination of the production of jehovah requires much more space than we have here. And there are many books on this subject already. Briefly though consider the facts above, along with the fact that few of the claims made in the old testament are verifiable. None of the miracles are verifiable. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs. The mere statement of someone that a miracle occured is not evidence that it did. Any more than it is evidence that the miracles of the Canaanites occured because canaanites claimed that they occured. Jehovah was one of the deities promoted in the old testament. The deliberate mistranslation of these writings by monotheists obfuscate this important fact. While she was indeed a prominent deity among the hebrews by the times of its writings (at the babylonian captivity or later) she was in no wise the only deity. Later she was combined with the other Elohim of the hebrews, masculinized, and moulded into a singular deity, hiding in her, all of the other hebrew deites.

Why? Power. High places were used throughout israel to worship. A priesthood stood to gain wealth, and power, by forcing all commerce to come through Jerusalem, rather than the various other markets throughout the tribal lands. you and I eat as we pleased. Many ancient peoples dedicated their meals to the Goddesses and Gods. Without their blessing it would have been unthinkable to eat. By centering all worship in a central place, a singular religion of the hebrews gained control over the mass of the populace. But they, like the masses that eventually came to be forced to worship the false gods of the romans (Jesus, Mary and such) only went into this arrangement at the hands of great violence, which the old testament itself proclaims and that proudly so! None of the little ones were to live, from old man to young they were to be murdered, their women raped, enslaved, sold. Not the mark of a righteous deity, but that of a blood thirsty one.

Is jehovah an invention of the jewish imagination? No, she has existed in various forms in many cultures in various names, but with similar qualities. The question really should be, is the exaltation of Jehovah above all other deities in all cultures, including the Hebrew, and are the claims about her almightiness and her demands of exclusive worship an invention of the Jewish imagination? Of course the answer to that is obvious to all.

Goddess bless (thyself.)
Namaste.

11

Anyone have scans of College directives?

by Hyghlandyr in

i have been discussing with my current s.o.

's mother about the fact that jws were not supposed to go to college in the past...and in someplaces still are not supposed to.

she has family that are well placed jws, aka well to do.

Hyghlandyr

Nathan Natas, Thanks this is exactly the kinds of things I was looking for. Going to print those out.

26

Would you get baptized again?

by JH in

jw
friends

i was baptized as a catholic, when i was very young, and then baptized in my late twenties as a jw.

which leads to my question.

if you joined another religion, would you get baptized again?

Hyghlandyr

Blech, beer...I repeat with grandiose emphasis, even if I cannot spell grandiose, blech.

How about that ice cream and shake mix that fast food places have, that the jws used to use at their conventions. Yummy yummy for my tummy, I'd love to be dipped, er plunged, er baptised in that stuff....

In fact for a while recently I was working at McDonalds. Maintenance..a pain in the ass..but almost management..blech. Anyhow I wasnt required to handle food.. but as you can guess..whenever the shake machine needed filled, I always came a runnin...and of course had to test a 32 ounce cup just to make sure it was ok.

I could run off a list of former sisters that I'd like to see baptised into my cult, in that stuff.......

26

Would you get baptized again?

by JH in

jw
friends

i was baptized as a catholic, when i was very young, and then baptized in my late twenties as a jw.

which leads to my question.

if you joined another religion, would you get baptized again?

Hyghlandyr

Baptised as a baby in the catholic church.

Baptised as a pre-teen in the baptists (or was it lutherans?)

Baptised as a teen in the pentacostals.

Baptised in my twenties as a JW.

Now I am thirty-six, I think it is about time to be baptised again.

What though...hmmm Buddhist perhaps? Shinto? Shamanism?

Ive been having strong leanings towards shamanism in the past few years. Some of you may have noticed with my shape shifting comments, animal totems, irish religious connections and so forth. I will save baptism into my own created cult until my forties, since I have only four more or so years to go. But first I have to create the dogmas and holy books, and rituals and relics and all of that interesting stuff.

Would I get baptised again? Heck yea. I'd even do it in a christian church if they let me talk about Christ, whom I belive in, instead of Jesus, who I believe never even existed.

11

Anyone have scans of College directives?

by Hyghlandyr in

i have been discussing with my current s.o.

's mother about the fact that jws were not supposed to go to college in the past...and in someplaces still are not supposed to.

she has family that are well placed jws, aka well to do.

Hyghlandyr

Thanks IZO,

unfortunately when I left cincinnati I left all of my publications...though my ex said she packed up my pioneer book with my diploma and other importants and a friend of mine picked them up from her. Hopefully I will get them soon. But all my old old OLD books, and I had a great many, are likely gone now forever. I will see when I get back to my friend who has my stuff. If so then I might have a young people ask book. In the meantime a scan would be appreciated by anyone willing and able, if not its cool and thanks for the help. I will keep trying:)

14

WT federal money

by peacefulpete in

i just learned that the wt has recently begun a tv ad campaign to reimage themselves as family counselors.

does anyone have details about the content of these commercials?

is this new direction for the org.

Hyghlandyr

Ive seen some of the ads. They are on the watchtowers website jw-media.org, the link posted above by germanjw. Pay close attention, they are not about the watchtower getting money, they are about covering their bums in regards to the molestation issue, trying to make it appear that they are proactive in fighting against child molesters and in providing people with tools to recognize one and for a child to defend against one.

11

Anyone have scans of College directives?

by Hyghlandyr in

i have been discussing with my current s.o.

's mother about the fact that jws were not supposed to go to college in the past...and in someplaces still are not supposed to.

she has family that are well placed jws, aka well to do.

Hyghlandyr

Lyin Eyes, Hello Goddess,

Ive been in cleveland. Getting ready to attend a community college this year. I might also start Over the Road truck driving. Not sure.

How'v things been with you? Good to hear from someone I know.

Not much been online lately though, nor postin nor chattin nor nor nor. It's sorta worn on me a wee bit. Kinda thinkin bout doin the hermit thing now...though it would be on the road:) A little alone time for some self relection.

11

Anyone have scans of College directives?

by Hyghlandyr in

i have been discussing with my current s.o.

's mother about the fact that jws were not supposed to go to college in the past...and in someplaces still are not supposed to.

she has family that are well placed jws, aka well to do.

Hyghlandyr

wazup spanner long long time no see. Pop me a shout out.

11

Anyone have scans of College directives?

by Hyghlandyr in

i have been discussing with my current s.o.

's mother about the fact that jws were not supposed to go to college in the past...and in someplaces still are not supposed to.

she has family that are well placed jws, aka well to do.

Hyghlandyr

I have been discussing with my current S.O.'s mother about the fact that JWs were not supposed to go to college in the past...and in someplaces still are not supposed to. She has family that are well placed JWs, aka well to do. Ive explained that there are double standards, for instance the Williams sisters can display their bodies but an average JW sister would be called into the library for displaying herself as they have. The mother I am talking to says that her family that are JWs ALL went to college. While she concedes that different congregations might do things different, she cannot believe that it was a stand of the JWs. This despite my telling her about the 1972? watchtower that called it the devil's propaganda. If any of you have references to literature that discusses the "dangers" of college attendance, and tries to discourage college attendance, I would appreciate quotes and scans if possible. Please quote the year of publication, the name, page, paragraph etc. Also the chapter would be good in case in a reprint the page number is different.

This link has some which I will use..but the more the better....

http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/education.htm

and this one also of course:

http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/1975.htm

Thanks in advance to the help yall. Goddess Bless. (Thyself)