the argument has been made on many occasions that death and suffering are a result of adam's sin.in fact, the bible is so clear on this "fact" that it is one of the few things on which nearly every christian denomination will agree.. "therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned romans 5:12. however, i would like to present the case that god had, in fact, not told adam this very thing, and consequently, adam was unaware of what really would take place upon eating the fruit.notice this verse:.
"but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.
" gen.2:17. i highlighted the word "you" because this is absolutely critical.why ?
Yes I think it was quite of a severe penalty to endure particular for just eating someone else's apples. Funny it was never mentioned who were the ones
I'd settle this out of court. Even if I lose my case, I owe God the depreciated value of a 6,000 year old apple. I'd generously offer $1 for the apple I didn't steal in negotiations. If god doesn't take it, he'd be a fool. Jehovah is no fool.
while growing up, my dad maintained a rather huge wts library.
i liked the idea of being able to pick out one of those old books from the1940s or earlier and read what they were saying back then.
well for the first time, in september of 2006 at the age of 40, i finally became a home-owner.
If you have a January 15th 1983 Watchtower which has "Avoid Independant Thinking" article, you should send that to Bring_the_Light so he can include it in his sacriligious home decorating.
i once turned in 39 hours helping another to reach their pioneer goal.
fairly accurate reporting of the hours as well.
If I was still in, I'd keep increasing my reported hours by 10 hours per month, every month, until somebody didn't believe me and counciled me.
110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 160, 170, 180, 190, 200, 210, 220, 240, 250, 260, 270, 280, 290.................................................
Where do you think the count would trigger a flag? I would attend all normal service meetings, and then explain I can't find ANYONE else who wants to pioneer as much as I do, that's why I was alone most of my time. What are they going to do? call their most zealous pioneer a LIAR?
Bring_the_Light
the argument has been made on many occasions that death and suffering are a result of adam's sin.in fact, the bible is so clear on this "fact" that it is one of the few things on which nearly every christian denomination will agree.. "therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned romans 5:12. however, i would like to present the case that god had, in fact, not told adam this very thing, and consequently, adam was unaware of what really would take place upon eating the fruit.notice this verse:.
"but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.
" gen.2:17. i highlighted the word "you" because this is absolutely critical.why ?
Not so, if God gets to decide what is and is not fair. You cannot take God to court if he himself is the final arbitor on all matters.
No he doesn't. I have free will. I can rule that God is wrong, and I do. There you have it.
the argument has been made on many occasions that death and suffering are a result of adam's sin.in fact, the bible is so clear on this "fact" that it is one of the few things on which nearly every christian denomination will agree.. "therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned romans 5:12. however, i would like to present the case that god had, in fact, not told adam this very thing, and consequently, adam was unaware of what really would take place upon eating the fruit.notice this verse:.
"but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.
" gen.2:17. i highlighted the word "you" because this is absolutely critical.why ?
Genesis 3 - Moral of the story, Satan tells the truth, God lies.
4 At this the serpent said to the woman: “Y OU positively will not die.(true as seen below) 5 For God knows (true, as seen below) that in the very day of YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened(true as seen below) and YOU are bound to be like God, KNOWING good and bad (true by gods own admission as seen below).”
6 Consequently the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was something to be longed for to the eyes, yes, the tree was desirable to look upon. So she began taking of its fruit and eating it. Afterward she gave some also to her husband when with her and he began eating it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them became opened (what Satan said would happen, not what god said would happen) and they began to realize that they were naked. Hence they sewed fig leaves together and made loin coverings for themselves.
21 And Jehovah God proceeded to make long garments of skin for Adam and for his wife and to clothe them. 22 And Jehovah God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us (what Satan said would happen) in knowing good and bad (God admits that Satan was telling the truth) , and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite (God lied about dying from eating from the tree, then intervenes to ensure Adam and Eve cannot become like him, like Satan said they could),—” 23 With that Jehovah God put him out of the garden of E´den to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 And so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of E´den the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.
There you have it folks, Satan and his serpent partner have the greatest defamation suit in the history of the universe.
I hope you enjoyed this Light.
Bring_the_Light
so i was cooking supper a few hours ago and i broke up a dried birds eye chili with my fingers into my pasta sauce.
now supper is finished and i am relaxing and i get an itchy eye - i rub my eye... &*%$ ... it is 45 minutes later and my eye is still sore!.
what stupid self inflicted injuries have you suffered and what can you recomend for a burning eye?.
TAKE THE PAIN!!!! It will make you appreciate the times when your eye isn't engulfed in excrutiating burning pain! Just look forward to that.
i remember as a child being impressed by several older 'brothers' who were well educated and articulate.
we had guys with degrees and one had a ph.d in some branch of physics - a professor.
now you know as well as i do that that level of education was, and still is, mightily discouraged by the wt but these guys had managed it somehow.. as an impressionable kid it put 'the truth' on a more secure footing for me, after all if these intelligent men could believe .
My dad was an extremely intelligent (and honest) JW, now DA'd on his own letter due to divorcing my mom. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that the advice/counsel to "cut work to half-time and pioneer" as a solution to the emotional and financial disaster that was his marriage may have "Brought the Light" for him.
I still worry whether he struggles with it, because he was a true believer (in god, not necessarily the associated lies). Hmm. I need to go visit daddy soon......
he's so excited.
i'm soooo nervous!.
he has good hands, and a quick mind.
I really want him to be in the marching band, but I get hissed at whenever I say that!
Ha! I was a pretty hardcore Band/Jazz Band trumpet player, even we thought marching band was "kinda gay". (actual term in use, naturally wouldn't use it except for historical accuracy)
i once turned in 39 hours helping another to reach their pioneer goal.
fairly accurate reporting of the hours as well.
Hehe, I went out in service sometimes, but I was never "actually" a publisher. Go ahead and hate, you haters. Never was dunked either. Was "encouraged" to do both, but due to my extreme intellectual advantage over all my oppressors, I spent 17.5 years without getting stuck with more than the occasional bible reading.
My dad was an MS, but pretty busy so he didn't get real hardcore into the preaching work. He gave the best Sunday talks IMO. He had probably 1 maaaaybe 2 per year. He always did the "how science proves there must be a god" talk. As a learned and smart man, he did an extremely good job making it sound good and to this day, I'd say that all of his points (including ones he created himself) are things to truly wonder at (if not quite evidentiary proof of god).
Tell you "the Truth" I wish I'd have dove in a little more. I'm feeling kinda left out of the stories here.
Bring_the_Light
...i just finished reading it.
wow!
the only downside for me is that he talks a lot about how important it is to connect with the pre-cult personality.
I don't think there ever was a "cult" version of me.
My childhood basically was like a group of people constantly doing the Jedi mind trick on me, after the 10,000th time I wanted to grab their hand and scream "I'm NOT LOOKING FOR ANY FxxxNG DROIDS".
The certainty that the religion is a lie led to a lot of issues with "well what is the truth then?", there are certain paranoia's they instilled in me but I'm not sure leaving was so much "becoming a different me". It was just the same me, who has gradually become less confused by the experience of life. I now know I'm not the crazy one.
For those of you that don't remember the Jedi Mind Trick, I have graciously offered a visual below.
