Posts by reniaa

117

Imperfection is irrelevant. Who has the right to rule?

by bluecanary in

we started this discussion on another thread, but i didn't want to derail the topic at hand.

here's where we stand so far:.

reniaa:.

reniaa

hi bluecanary

It's obvious atm we have the bible and holy spirit as guidance and yes maybe time as well, which will show the poor fruitage of a wrong choice. But the big doctrinal stuff doesn't change. Which is important to me.

Maybe what is more important than what we change, is what we don't change especially under pressure. If something becomes accepted world-wide but is condemned biblically but a religion clearly goes with world opinion maybe that is more relevant.

The divide between bible guidance and God's will and current man's opinion and desires is getting wider and unbrigeable IMO.

I did think ofh an example of change in the bible not bought about by God and that was moses giving authority to leaders among the tribes to judge in his place. is father-in-law gave him that advice and God backed it up afterwards.

Reniaa

117

Imperfection is irrelevant. Who has the right to rule?

by bluecanary in

we started this discussion on another thread, but i didn't want to derail the topic at hand.

here's where we stand so far:.

reniaa:.

reniaa

Hi bluecanary thank you for your thoughfulreplies.

To a certain degree I agree with you bluecanary. A religion will certainly show fruitage God's blessing and holy spirit but if you look at Moses his imperfection did effect his rulership and we cannot expect everything to be perfect. Maybe more what we should be looking for is the humbleness too change if we have gone down the wrong path.

Psalm 25:9
He guides the humble in what is right and teaches them his way.

Zephaniah 2:3
Seek the LORD, all you humble of the land, you who do what he commands. Seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you will be sheltered on the day of the LORD's anger.

accepting we are imperfect until..

1 Corinthians 13:10
but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

Jesus is our leader but if we weren't meant to have overseers among ourselves why did he set up the appostles, elders even more so afterwards through Paul?

the set up of a ruling body is their in the bible clearly and to deny that is foolishness.

Acts 16:4
As they traveled from town to town, they delivered the decisions reached by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem for the people to obey.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Acts 20:28
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

so put with romans the volume of evidence in the greek scriptures show it's obvious the overseer arrangement is at Jesus's direction and God's spirit guidance.

In the end we an only decide for ourselves. I am happy in myself that Jehovah's Witnesses are the most bless with holy spirit at this time and the fruitage is their actually teaching people to follow Jehovah and his actual son Jesus.

For the record if they starting teaching trinity or killing in wars I wouldn't follow them because they are not biblical.

2 Corinthians 10:3
For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does.

but we can aim towards perfection and doing God's will is what we should be doing at this time however imperfectly.

Philippians 3:12-13 (New International Version)

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,

Sorry I have quoted a lot of scriptures but I think at this time it is all about reaching out to god knowing he has sent his son to give us the helping hand but we need to do this together as the bible directs. If we believe in Jehovah and his son Jesus we should be together even in imperfection.

Reniaa

117

Imperfection is irrelevant. Who has the right to rule?

by bluecanary in

we started this discussion on another thread, but i didn't want to derail the topic at hand.

here's where we stand so far:.

reniaa:.

reniaa

hi bluecanary

You will know the "he who without sin cast the first stone" that is a problem I accept. If Jws ran a more governmental arrangement where they swapped and changed leaders every few years would it work better? IMO Nope because clearly governmentally atm it doesn't, you just get different sets of problems. You do get a false sense of control over leadership which for me is just a placebo because so often the leaders voted in by their people don't do what those people want.

If you yourself set up your own church and people looked to you for doctrinal and spiritual guidance could you do a better job?

Imperfection means NONE of us could do a better job.

but....is this a good enough excuse to abandon a structured body of faith in Unity?

I actually think the world is going with the individual. Culturally in religious belief we are all trying to be faiths of one alone, 'each to their own' being the moto but does this work? IMO absolutely not instead of unity you just get millions of religious divisions IMO it kills faith there is no unity of belief under God with division.

So I turn to the bible which clearly says we have leadership among ourselves till Jesus's return.

Romans 12:8
if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously. if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

this is non-negotiable scripture but also our imperfection is also non-negotiable.

Surely the point is that we can only argue if we can ourselves be perfect and say we wouldn't make those mistakes?

As for whether they follow the bible? Personally I think they do a pretty good job, not bending to the winds of public opinion. And that they have managed as a whole religion to tear themselves away from trinity among other things. That doctrinely has remained the same since russels day shows to me personally a mark of holy spirit guidance.

Perfection of person is impossible but trying to follow the bible especially in doing the preaching work and not "burying your shekel" to me is very important biblically from Jesus himself.

53

When will they realise that the bus isn't coming?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

i was still a kid and living at home at the time, and so that must have been well over 30 years ago, that i heard ron drage (now a senior member of the uk bethel) say "if you are waiting at the bus stop it, is better to be 10 minutes early rather than miss it".

what he was referring to of course was the then then 1975 issue; in other words armageddon has arrived yet but it just round the corner and we are a little early for it.. i don't know what brought this to my mind the other day but i got to thinking, surely if you are waiting for a bus and you get there 10 minutes early and it doesn't then turn up, how long do you wait?

10 minutes, 15 minutes, half an hour, an hour, two hours?

reniaa

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Reniaa

88

Is Jehovah a true god?

by asilentone in

reniaa

Jehovah is our One true God. Do you reject him,his son and his word?

If you do, you cannot complain if he takes you at your word.

Reniaa

117

Imperfection is irrelevant. Who has the right to rule?

by bluecanary in

we started this discussion on another thread, but i didn't want to derail the topic at hand.

here's where we stand so far:.

reniaa:.

reniaa

Name any ruler from the bible (obviously accept Jesus who is perfect) that has ruled without mistakes and imperfection?

Moses? no imperfect and made mistakes till the end.

King david? nope murderous adulterer:s

Solomon? Nope eventually turned to pagan gods.

Jewish leaders? Nope killed God's son

Appostles? Nope they at one point believed Jesus would keep one of them alive until Jesus returned and got rebuked for it, as well as constantly fighting over who was the greatest.

Current governements? the downward trend in people voting indicates a lack of interest and cynicism in the rulers we have. America had an upsurge in voting with obama america's first black american president but his honeymoon period is now over and he is becoming unpopular for not keeping to certain promises.

All organisations have their leaders including God and his angels who within themselves had at least one Archangel.

humanity is humanity and and what appeals for me is following bible direction and worshiping Jehovah.

imperfection is our lot under the time cmes.

Reniaa

29

Old JW lady just at my door by herself..................

by outofservice in

jw
friends

so i assume the back of the territory card was not marked that apostates live at this address.do they still do that?

anyway the first thing i asked her was if she had a back issue of the july 09 awake.

she looked through her bag said she didn't but could get me a copy and bring it back to me.

reniaa

I would say if you care at all, leave this kind old lady alone and don't play apostate games with her! respect works both ways if she returns and fulfils her obligation too you.

Reniaa

23

27 MILLION Americans On Anti-Depressants!

by minimus in

jw
friends

reuters has an article stating that since 1996 it was at 13 million and now it has skyrocketed.. have you ever been on these meds?

almost everyone i know has at one time or another... so far, not me yet..

reniaa

NIce info thx

it shows clearly that depression is a pandemic atm one of the biggest growing diseases (I have seen similar articles from other countries too). This gives a touch of reality to the 'Jws are all depressed' argument that you often hear. An exerise in availability cascade among anti-witnesses forums that articles like this are really helpful in showing them up for what they are.

Depressions is a hard battle and we need more real knowledge on it.

Reniaa

25

What made me take "The Red Pill"?

by God_Delusion in

what made me open my eyes after 30 years and smell the coffee?

and why did i accept the red pill, but my parents and everyone else is content with the blue pill?.

has anyone done any research as to what wakes us up?.

reniaa

I have a friend who could tell you exactly what1914 is based on it's in daniel times and personally it's not an issue for me. Some people need the depth on prophecies. For me I only needed to know Jehovah is God and Jesus is his actual son.

My faith is all about which God I believe in and when I compare Jehovah to a triune roman inspired opposite, no contest. What I asked myself when I wasnt a witness for a long time, was I willing to accept as an alternate viewpoint.

a/ atheism - No God

2/ alternate God away from christianity

3/ alternate christian God

4/ agnostic - vague belief in God but not really investing in more than an awareness of him.

I look at the bible and it confirms Jehovah to me so I stay a witness gathering with those that believe in Jehovah as hebrews warns us to before the time draws near.

this forum touches on many things for discussion but it is always the structure of witnesses I find on the whole, how they follow the bible, how the men in lead function, how the bible is interpretated, being influenced by current culture rather than the bible.

THe massive doctrinal issues surprisingly not touched on that often.

Like is Jehovah/YHWH God?

Reniaa

93

what is best evidence against noah's flood?......

by oompa in

keep it simple if possible........i like the ice core samples.........thanks, this was not my big issue but i may be able to use it.......oompa.

feel free to direct me to another thread btw...... or maybe i should read the second page of olins thread!.

reniaa

Rationalising the impossible is just not a thing for religious people. scientists also do it too. Currently time is the rationale, that if you throw enough time at nothing it turns into something.

Reniaa