Posts by flipper

26

Follow up: the baby did not survive

by Captain Schmideo2 in

jw
friends

it was always a long shot anyway.

but, after a week of emotional pain for the mom, and extreme physical pain for a helpless infant, the baby's body finally succumbed.. all those prayers from the parents, from family, from friends, were absolutely worthless.

that is a deity for ya!

flipper

CAPTAIN- I'm so sorry for your loss. My wife and I send our deepest condolences. Sincerely, Mr. & Mrs. Flipper

52

Convention program 2017 AM3

by George One Time in

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/convention-program-2017/friday/.

why would our beloved gb member be on the top picture of the program?.

any ideas?.

flipper

If there was any doubt about who the head of the GB is now- that doubt is removed. Anthony Morris III has always acted like a legend in his own mind anyway- so this comes as no surprise- he's the new Ted Jaracz. Like Tiki said though the " personal glorification " stuff is really disturbing, yet ever since the WT website channel has been on- all these GB members have been getting their mugs shown out there pontificating pearls of idiocy.

As for the title of the convention itself ? Don't Give Up ? How desperate does THAT sound ? Translation : Lots of JW's are throwing in the towel becoming inactive apparently and just quitting going to meetings. Otherwise the convention title wouldn't be so desperate

14

March 1, 2017 BOE Re: Update on Local Design/Construction Arrangement

by wifibandit in

march 1, 2017 to all bodies of elders in the united states branch territory re: update on local design/construction arrangement.

flipper

A scam is a scam is a scam. You can fool some of the people some of the time- but you can't fool all of the people all of the time

22

Shunning - Are Mothers Most Fanatical?

by Lostandfound in

on many posts by those with experience of df or da shunning, it look to me that the most fanatical observers of the shunning practise are mothers, and when a person approached parents about their own doubts or intentions, approaching the mother the most daunting prospect .

odd that visiting warwick leaflet has a picture of a meeting of some sort with a room comprising men only, given the subordinate role given to women, one might think they would be more liberal over shunning close ones, but not so.. what drives this, is it grabbing an opportunity to be more visible by their loyalty, or low level of education of a lot of dubs so that the sisters blindly accept direction or authority.

i might have expected some kick back against the shunning practise by sisters giving evidence to their independence of thought.. our real thinkers here will be able to explain this fanaticism of loyalty better.

flipper

At least in MY personal life - I found my situation the exact OPPOSITE of your thread title. My JW mom was the most supportive person to me when I left the JW cult back in 2003 - she loved and respected me whether I was a JW or not - yet my strict JW elder dad was the biggest asshole who treated me with utmost disdain and judgment all these years since I left the JW cult.

I don't think it's either more mothers or more fathers who shun us- it's probably about equal of both- depending on which parent is the biggest asshole- and for some families it's the mother, in some families , like mine- it's the father. I have just as many friends on this board whose JW fathers shun them as JW mom's. I truly don't think there's any rhyme or reason to it. If you are trying to figure it out blame the WT Society leaders for their cult indoctrination of both men and women's minds which cause this to happen. Kind of how I see it

37

WT Society Creates the Atmosphere which Spawns Child Abuse in Congregations

by flipper in

been thinking about this lately after almost 14 years out of the jw cult myself.

when you think of the language used within the jehovah's witness organization in such a closed society environment in how the wt society promotes almost absolute " trust " in the elders , the governing body, and trust even in the " friends " in the congregation themselves- is it any wonder that unscrupulous child molesters can enter any congregation pretending to be " spiritual " and take advantage of unsuspecting children or the parents ?

think about it : an individual is judged as a " spiritual " person within the jw organization based on what wt functions or duties they are good at performing.

flipper

Thanks for all the great comments. Got back in town so I have some time to reply.

SPARROWDOWN- I totally agree with your take. I remember when I used to be a JW - really weird people would come into the congregation claiming to be the 2nd coming of Jesus- or whatever- and act all " spiritual " - then later you'd find out they had extorted JW's in other congregations by financially bilking people out of their money- or something strange like that. Kingdom halls are public buildings so we never knew who might show up. The experience you shared was really creepy about that guy. Wow. Shows how careful we had to be , or how careful we should have been as JW's. Thanks for sharing that experience.

STILL TOTALLY ADD- I'm so sorry to hear that you were abused as a child. I hope you have been able to heal since then to some extent. But you are right - all of us were trained as young kids to always trust the elders and never question anything- which set a dangerous precedent and trend in every congregation for abuses of all types to take place. I'm sorry you had to suffer my friend. They controlled us through fear.

LOVEUNIHATEXAMS- Good points you make. It's like most JW's have " blinders " on and don't even notice other adults spending too much time with minor children. Way too much trusting going on to the point of being gullible and naïve to the dangers posed. And how people substitute names like " auntie " and " uncle " - exactly. Steve Hassan mentioned even the use of " brothers " or " sisters " is a way that all mind control cults try to substitute people in their churches or congregations to replace our real family relatives. Pretty creepy really.

PETE ZAHUT- Good points. I saw so many JW's taken in by financial schemes due to their being gullible and really uninformed about money and how the financial world really works. I'm so sorry to hear that your male relative was abused by an adult JW woman. That's really sad. And that he took all the guilt upon himself - yet she sat smugly in the congregation not feeling any regret or remorse. It's disgusting how she ruined that young man's life. But I bet nothing was ever done in the congregation to her by the elders as far as discipline as her own husband never found out. She should have had her ass thrown into jail ! Sick.

IOWNMYLIFE- Little red flags indeed ! Thanks for sharing that weird experience. An elders wife saying it's " O.K. " that this young man held a knife to his wife's neck because he's regular at meetings and in service. Exactly the point I'm making in this thread. Thank you. The things JW's justify and make excuses for are absolutely incredible and unbelievable ! Total insanity. Mind control in action.

CHOOK- Good points about child abuse not being mentioned in the Bible. That is really weird. Never thought about that before. And you're right- JW's jump through all kinds of mental hoops to justify their denials.

SMIDDY- Great points you make about the JW child abuse issue endangering children and families within communities. That is SO true. Anybody in the congregation can go knock on doors without elders or any other JW knowing and if it's a pedophile - it makes it even more dangerous. You would think that just the liability factor against the WT Society in that scenario would make them change their child abuse policies- but not so. WT leaders are too arrogant to change. They feel they are above the laws of the land. Pretty disgusting. Take care, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

19

Jehovah will clean his house first...

by tor1500 in

jw
friends

with all the stuff going on in the org.

that is not being said, many of the friends say, well, jehovah will clean his house first....with all this religious hiding of child abuse...what denomination was exposed/cleaned first...although they were forced they were exposed and many still go to these places of worship.

so are the jw really god's chosen channel.

flipper

If their was a God - or "Jehovah " - he would have cleaned out the WT leaders long ago-the governing body and those leading that corrupt organization. I think the judicial system , police, and government authorities will have to clean house for God. He's either sleeping on the job - or does not exist to do the job correctly

37

WT Society Creates the Atmosphere which Spawns Child Abuse in Congregations

by flipper in

been thinking about this lately after almost 14 years out of the jw cult myself.

when you think of the language used within the jehovah's witness organization in such a closed society environment in how the wt society promotes almost absolute " trust " in the elders , the governing body, and trust even in the " friends " in the congregation themselves- is it any wonder that unscrupulous child molesters can enter any congregation pretending to be " spiritual " and take advantage of unsuspecting children or the parents ?

think about it : an individual is judged as a " spiritual " person within the jw organization based on what wt functions or duties they are good at performing.

flipper

Now for pg. 2 reply . Have to work tonight but I'll reply to OTWO's response first. Please feel free to keep replies coming in on this thread when I'm out of town till tomorrow ,I appreciate it. Take care.

ON THE WAY OUT- Very good points you make. Isn't it supremely ironic that the JW's allow their children to be with " brothers " in " good standing " and don't even question it- yet they'd never do that probably with any " worldly " people they even know ? It's totally due to the mind control and thought indoctrination concerning how " worldly " people are viewed as compared with JW people as taught by the WT Society.

Yeah, I don't see the WT Society implementing any forbidding of JW minors working with older " brothers " in the congregation. WT Society allegedly has in place some policy forbidding children working alone with any known pedophile- yet I feel it would be even better to prevent kids from working alone in service with any adult not in their immediate family. But- WT will never do that. They care too much about profits- not enough about children's safety. And yes- the old " repentant act " that child molesters put on their face when sitting before a JC can get them " reproved " instead of " dfed " which can further endanger children's welfare. I agree- it's a messed up system through and through

37

WT Society Creates the Atmosphere which Spawns Child Abuse in Congregations

by flipper in

been thinking about this lately after almost 14 years out of the jw cult myself.

when you think of the language used within the jehovah's witness organization in such a closed society environment in how the wt society promotes almost absolute " trust " in the elders , the governing body, and trust even in the " friends " in the congregation themselves- is it any wonder that unscrupulous child molesters can enter any congregation pretending to be " spiritual " and take advantage of unsuspecting children or the parents ?

think about it : an individual is judged as a " spiritual " person within the jw organization based on what wt functions or duties they are good at performing.

flipper

FINKELSTEIN- Good point. The WT Society has not only a self supporting diagram but a self supporting social system which supports prospective child abusers. It's so muddied with performing the WT functions like service, commenting, etc. as you said- that JW's could never tell who is a child molester and who is not. I like your expression that " The WTS purposefully creates an illusion of religious wholesomeness " - good point. So it's easy for unscrupulous pedophiles to take advantage of that environment to attack children.

LV 101- Interesting that an elders wife warned you not to let your children stay at sleepovers at other JW's houses. So she KNEW things were going on in the congregation. It's so weird that some JW's may know what's going on within the congregation- but will never come right out and SAY there's child abuse happening. They just are too " protective " of the Jehovah's Witness name or title that they don't want negative news of child abuse spreading around

37

WT Society Creates the Atmosphere which Spawns Child Abuse in Congregations

by flipper in

been thinking about this lately after almost 14 years out of the jw cult myself.

when you think of the language used within the jehovah's witness organization in such a closed society environment in how the wt society promotes almost absolute " trust " in the elders , the governing body, and trust even in the " friends " in the congregation themselves- is it any wonder that unscrupulous child molesters can enter any congregation pretending to be " spiritual " and take advantage of unsuspecting children or the parents ?

think about it : an individual is judged as a " spiritual " person within the jw organization based on what wt functions or duties they are good at performing.

flipper

Thanks for the great comments and observations !

FREEMINDFADE- Good points you make. I remember being around so many fake people in congregations who feigned being " spiritual " but inside were master manipulators of other people. And dangerous besides . And yes, there should be health warnings on kingdom hall entries - but then WT knows nobody would attend then. But you never know- with the strength of mind control- maybe JW's still would attend. LOL.

FASTJEHU- Exactly. From the top of the organization down to the lowliest JW - people are told to obey, obey, obey . So indeed in that atmosphere it's difficult for a young JW child or parent to protect themselves as the mind indoctrination to " cooperate " or " obey " is deeply entrenched. Pretty disgusting.

SIR 82- Extremely good points you bring out. I agree. I think it IS 100 % all about performing WT functions and 0 % about character or having good qualities. And the most dangerous part of this is what you stated, " the most despicable people can find acceptance, respect, even dominance of others in the congregations. " Precisely. One of the main reasons I posted this thread- to perhaps get lurking JW's or people sitting on the fence to think about the implications.

SIMON- Very true. WT leaders knowingly put children in danger in order to promote position, power, growth of the organization, and financial wealth of the WT organization while throwing children's welfare to the wind. Very sick.

LONG HAIR GAL- Good points you make my friend. WT Society cleverly and slyly breaks down a typical JW's personal boundaries to the point of as you stated, " eroding people's natural instinct of self-preservation. " Well put indeed. And most JW's don't even REALIZE their personal boundaries are being trampled on ! That's how insidious and tricky the WT deception is. Like you said as with the frog in boiling water- JW's gradually get conditioned, accustomed to this invasion of privacy - whereas most normal people in society would put the brakes on and say " wait a minute stop infringing on my rights " . I agree with you about how you can smell a user or manipulator a mile away now- I'm the same way. Very in tune to spotting it now. Take care, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

37

WT Society Creates the Atmosphere which Spawns Child Abuse in Congregations

by flipper in

been thinking about this lately after almost 14 years out of the jw cult myself.

when you think of the language used within the jehovah's witness organization in such a closed society environment in how the wt society promotes almost absolute " trust " in the elders , the governing body, and trust even in the " friends " in the congregation themselves- is it any wonder that unscrupulous child molesters can enter any congregation pretending to be " spiritual " and take advantage of unsuspecting children or the parents ?

think about it : an individual is judged as a " spiritual " person within the jw organization based on what wt functions or duties they are good at performing.

flipper

Been thinking about this lately after almost 14 years out of the JW cult myself. When you think of the language used within the Jehovah's Witness organization in such a closed society environment in how the WT Society promotes almost absolute " trust " in the elders , the Governing body, and trust even in the " friends " in the congregation themselves- is it any wonder that unscrupulous child molesters can enter any congregation pretending to be " spiritual " and take advantage of unsuspecting children OR the parents ?

Think about it : An individual is judged as a " spiritual " person within the JW organization based on what WT functions or duties they are good at performing. If you raise your hand and answer at meetings, you're " spiritual " . If you faithfully give talks on the platform you are " spiritual " . If you pioneer - you are " spiritual " . Turn your time in at the end of the month - you are considered " spiritual " . In the WT Society's view - a person is considered " spiritual " only because of obeying by performing WT Society functions that benefit the WT Society. " Spirituality " is not determined by how kind, empathetic, loving, just, mild, or good a person is within or by their personality inside- it's the OUTSIDE performing of WT functions that makes a person " good " .

So a man can become an elder by getting field service time in, commenting, giving talks- yet still beat the crap out of his wife in privacy at home or molest his children or other children in the congregation as long as he keeps it hidden - all the while performing these WT functions which outwardly make him look like a " saint " . He might not even be nice in his personality. Or he may be a charmer. Yet either way keeping up a good " front " . Meanwhile rank & file " brothers & sisters " in the congregation may look at such a person as an " example " even letting their children play with this elders children in both homes of the families. So no one suspects a thing- until an explosion of criminal child abuse happens- then all hell breaks loose.

Think of the loaded language that fosters this view within Jehovah's Witnesses that make them think that they are " better " or more " special " than anybody else in the world - which leads to TOO much trust within the congregation. Language such as : " WE are a people for special possession " , " Jehovah's chosen servants " , " our brothers & sisters " , " Jehovah's people identified by the love we have among ourselves " , " only we have the truth " , " avoid worldly people " , " the safe confines of our spiritual paradise " . You get the point. JW's are indoctrinated to ONLY trust fellow JW's. Like a frog in a pot of boiling water - JW's consider themselves " safe " . So if you get anybody coming into the congregation - a person can get newly baptized, jump through the hoops of performing WT functions and - BINGO ! They are considered " good association " and " spiritual " . Then it becomes even more dangerous once one of these predators gets appointed to a power position of elder in a congregation as other JW's are even more intimidated by the power this elder wields and possesses. So if anyone comes out with accusations of child abuse towards an elder- the JW's are trained to doubt the validity of the child abuse charges- because THEY are told " Oh no ! Brother so and so is SPIRITUAL - he wouldn't molest children - he's an elder, or a pioneer ! " You see my point. JW's minds are conditioned to trust too much and give most fellow JW's , especially elders and the GB the benefit of any doubt.

And therein lies the danger of this WT Society mind indoctrination. And in my opinion why so much child abuse happens within the congregations. Then the WT indoctrination continues in NOT reporting child abuse first to police authorities- but insisting their elders report it to the WT legal department first. Which takes the power away from police and puts it back in the hands of WT legal and the Governing Body as to how to keep performing WT functions to handle child abuse cases. So the atmosphere of promoting child abuse keeps being protected from the top of the WT Society all the way down to every last rank & file JW in " protecting " the JW organization's " good name " and " spirituality " - while throwing sexually abused children and their parents and families under the bus. And for the sake of what ? To protect a billion $$$ corporation that wishes to extend it's 138 year existence since 1879. And most JW's are none the wiser- don't have a clue that the environment they are in is probably a hell of a lot more dangerous than the " worldly " environment they condemn.

As always I look forward to any thoughts or ideas you have about this subject as well . Take care, have a good day