Posts by flipper

87

Did you get " Counseled " about the Music you Listened to While you were a JW ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

from the time i was a small boy - i loved rock n' roll music.

beatles, rolling stones, led zeppelin, hendrix.

i started getting slighted for the music i listened to as i lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to led zeppelin's song " black dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as i'm rocking out .

flipper

Great comments everyone ! Thanks . Finally off of work so I can finish up page 3 and 4 replies.

KAIK- So you got badgered for listening to your music also ? Seems to be a scenario that happened to a lot of us.

CRAZY_FLICKERING_LIGHT- So Bethel made lots of rules about what music you listened to ? Glad I never went to Bethel- they'd have kicked me out the first month ! LOL.

AFRIKANMAN- Glad to hear that you are into playing music and performing. Me too. I really enjoy it. Music is definitely a healer.

APROCLAIMER- Yeah, whether it's rock, rap, or alternative it just seems that anything that's not classified " kingdom melodies " seems to be off limits in the GB's mind. The control that WT leaders wield over JW's is pathetic.

TIKI- Yes indeed - I was really shocked when that " brother " got wigged out about the Moody blues. I mean they are a pretty mellow group as far as rock groups go - and pretty ignorant of him to say " Knights " in White Satin instead of " nights " in White Satin . Some people just have a screw loose I swear.

DONE4GOOD- Great groups you are into Doors, Beatles ,Zeppelin , Hendrix love those artists ! Don't feel too bad- I initially got rid of my Zeppelin albums when the information came out in 1982- but like you I also re-purchased all the Zeppelin albums back once I saw the WT's counsel was a load of crap. So we are the winners in the end. WT leaders cannot take everything away from us- especially our music !

TOES UP- Your mom hated the song " Lay Down Sally " ? What did she think Sally was doing ? What if Sally was just sleeping ? Doesn't Sally have a right to sleep ? LOL.

BRANDNEW- Glad to hear that your parents were hippies and into cool music. I'm an ex-JW hippy type myself. Livin' life in the Northern Sierra mountains and lovin ' life !

DJS- Man you've got that right ! GB and WT leaders are Dark lords if I've ever seen them.

MARK OF CANE- I did see a lot of elders try to push or influence people to get rid of their music- including myself. I did get rid of some Zeppelin but bought all of their music back once I saw the lunacy of the WT Society's counsel. I swear the elders would try to control when we would pee or shit if we gave them a chance. Just ridiculous. I'm sorry that you were coerced to burn your albums- hopefully you bought them all back.

IOWNMYLIFE- A JW wouldn't even say the word " cigarette " when he sang that Roger Miller song ? Now THAT is pretty fanatic. Sounds like you and your husband were harassed about your music as well. It's amazing how many of us experienced that treatment.

NIHILISTIC JOURNEY- So your dad's elder friend would listen to a Rasta sing who smoked weed- but got on your case for listening to REM's " Losing your Religion " ? Yeah, sounds about like the way I saw hypocritical actions of elders go when I was a JW. By the way- I'm glad to see that you DID lose your religion ! LOL.

NATHAN NATAS- Don't be too hard on yourself - we were all cult mind controlled " idiots " at one time. Blame WT leaders - not yourself.

HEAVEN- So your dad threw your brother's Ozzy Osbourne album onto the ground ? That's pretty aggressive ! It's amazing how wound up tight elders and JW parents were about our music.

UNDERCOVER- I was a teenager when you were I the 1970's as well and I remember lots of talks against the alleged " worldly " music. All the groups you mentioned I was really into and still am to this day. I was a rebel WITH a cause so I could keep my INDEPENDENT thinking going.

JRK- You and me both my friend- we are both rebels. I always have been- I always will be.

FREEMINDFADE- I remember talking with you about some of the music you played and how both of our families harassed us for our musical interests. It's just great to know that we have freedom of mind to pursue what the hell we want musically without having to answer to our cultish family members anymore.

DESIGNER STUBBLE- Sounds like you had some nosy JW's come to your house checking out your music. It's amazing how intrusive and nosy JW's will get. They do not recognize personal boundaries for sure

I'll be back later and answer page 4 responses . Thanks again ! Take care.

46

My cat died suddenly!

by Fisherman in

jw
friends

i did not realize that they were symptoms that something was wrong with my cat -but i did notice that my cat was breathing a little differently for a period of about a few days.

i also noticed prior and after to that, that on occasion, my cat would cry at the litter box, but that was a very seldom event.. anyway, about a week ago i noticed the symptom that my very loved cat was breathing heavy.

so i called a taxi and i was going to rush him to emergency room for cats.

flipper

So sorry, fisherman. What a heartbreak to lose your sweet kitty. Wish

you the best. Take care.

Mrs. F

24

Harry Holt - JW elder sexually assaulted 8 girls over 4 decades

by OrphanCrow in

church elder who sexually abused vulnerable children was invited to speak at first victim’s wedding.

a church elder who sexually abused vulnerable children was invited to speak at his first victim’s wedding, a court heard.. a court was told harry holt, 71, now of rutland street, nelson, went on to attack seven more girls as young as nine after the jehovah’s witnesses failed to report him to police.when the matter was raised, a local beat officer advised parents to ‘just keep your children away from him’, the court heard.. holt is facing a lengthy prison sentence after being convicted of attacks against eight girls in scotland dating back over 40 years.. .

full article at link..

flipper

The fact that this scumbag child molester abused 8 children over 40 years should not escape us. Most child molesters DO abuse multiple children - some up to 30 or more and even more than that over a lifetime. So you multiply the number of pedophiles and child molesters running around unchecked in these JW congregations with the multiple child victims- I'm quite sure the worldwide number of JW child abuse victims is in the thousands if not hundreds of thousands by now through the years. Disgusting.

WT Society IS a criminal organization that should be brought up on charges of crimes against humanity and the fact that hundreds if not thousands of child abuse lawsuits worldwide against WT leaders is happening as we speak is evidence of the WT leaders criminality and immoral and unethical values. Many of those immoral, unethical values seep down into the other 8 million JW's worldwide. This is more dangerous than many people want to admit. JW's are under the influence of the " Stockholm Syndrome " whereby they sympathize with their WT leader captors and become complicit in support of policies that favor child molesters - not victims of child abuse

42

Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!

by AndersonsInfo in

http://watchtowerdocuments.org/trey-bundy-one-year-of-reporting-jw-child-abuse/.

trey bundy: one year of reporting jw child abuse.

it’s been one year since trey bundy first reported the watchtower’s child abuse problems.. twelve months ago the center for investigative reporting (cir) began publishing information about jehovah’s witnesses and their cover-up of child sexual abuse on their website, reveal.

flipper

Trey Bundy has done excellent work in exposing the WT Society leaders and Jehovah's Witness organization as being extremely deficient in allowing pedophiles criminal access to abusing children. Even more exposure needs to be accomplished on a national scale and worldwide scale. These stories still need to be pushed into the mainstream media even more often.

WT Society is a criminal organization allowing minor children to die from not being allowed blood transfusions, allowing children to be raped while elders that commit such rapes are allowed to still be elders and continue abusing their power, and such child abuse victims are shunned or cut off from the JW organization for bringing these crimes to light- thus resulting in some victims committing suicide for lack of justice.

WT Society's crimes should continue to be shouted from the rooftops and reporters like Trey Bundy and all citizens on this planet should continue to advocate for these victims in their respective communities in a very vocal way

87

Did you get " Counseled " about the Music you Listened to While you were a JW ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

from the time i was a small boy - i loved rock n' roll music.

beatles, rolling stones, led zeppelin, hendrix.

i started getting slighted for the music i listened to as i lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to led zeppelin's song " black dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as i'm rocking out .

flipper

ON THE WAY OUT- Hey bud, good hearing from you. Yeah that's EXACTLY what the song " Radar Love " was about ! A guy missing his wife and then saying he and his lady have a " wave " in the air to connect them - thus " Radar Love " . I mean- The idiocy of fellow JW's I used to be around never ceased to amaze me ! I'm glad that you got back into your music exiting the Witnesses. Thanks for the youtube- good song.

CLAMBAKE- Yeah, pretty funny. I basically looked at KISS as more of a comedy act than a legitimate musically talented band. Strangely enough they are still in the rock n' roll Hall of Fame. Shows how much the Hall of Fame voters know. When bands like Jethro Tull and The Moody Blues get bypassed for induction into the Hall year after year and bands of much less substance stumble into the Hall. Politics involved apparently.

SISSYB- I'm so sorry that you went through such an embarrassing scene with your JW dad. You should have told him that Liberace was gay and if he watched any movies with Rock Hudson in them he was gay too so your dad would be supporting gay actors also - right ? The older generation JW's were basically so hypocritical it was ridiculous. I hope you later went on and bought your Elton John CD's again. He is a great singer and songwriter indeed.

XELDER- You're hilarious ! LOL ! I'll take my chances that my eyeballs won't get picked out for listening to rock music ! LOL. I think Jesus would LOVE my rock music. Might even have dug some songs that I've written ! LOL. One fantasy I've had is to go incognito before a Circuit Assembly starts and sneak in the song " The Wall " CD by Pink Floyd just before the opening song replacing the Kingdom Song and play it over the loudspeakers so the JW audience would to have to listen to it . The words in that song are SO great to battle mind indoctrination. And then I'd sit there and watch everybody scramble around . A hidden fantasy of mine to do. On my bucket list.

BARROLD BONDS- Yeah I've always seen the hypocrisy of people avoiding gay artists yet they'll listen to heterosexual immoral artists. What does it matter ? It doesn't.

REPILLTWICE- Thanks. Yeah I think we've all had a story or two like this. I agree with you- we DO ALL have the right to listen to music of our choice indeed. I'm glad to hear that you are back to listening to the music you like. I can only imagine the witch hunts that went on in Bethel through Bethelites record collections. I'm glad we are free !

SHIRLEY W- Imagine that ! A young JW that self regulates his own music collection ! Must have been the most boring kid on the planet ! LOL.

DUCATIJOE- Yeah ! Meatloaf ! Bat out of Hell. Good song ! I hear Meatloaf did some acting gigs through the years as well-didn't he ?

JRK- I'm getting this cool picture in my mind of you and OTWO bopping up and down in an open jeep in Nevada to the Whos " You Better You Bet " ! LOL. Were the coyotes howling along with you ?

JWFACTS- The point you make is well taken. So appropriate. Usually the elders or pompous WT leaders who make the biggest stink about the music we listen to being immoral- are the ones who are secretly the most immoral themselves ! I've seen that many times in the JW organization.

JEFFT- I'm glad to hear that you restored lots of your classic rock back into your collection again that was once thrown out. Music is certainly a healer- I don't know where I'd be without music.

10THPLAGUE- I hope you were able to replace your Incubus album with a new one again. They made some really good music indeed.

SPIRAL- I'm glad you were able to listen to your music unhindered for the most art and enjoy your teen years. I agree- teenagers today have it much easier if they want to download any music they want.

SPECTRE- I'm glad that you had the courage to go see the music and concerts you loved in spite of the elders aggression towards you and your friends. The control over our lives was incredible ! Glad we are out man.

LIFE IS TOO SHORT- So a MS gave you hell over having a Prince album ?Really weird. Especially since Price became a JW. It sounds like your parents were very strict on you listening to any non-JW music in your youth. My dad was very strict s well. But I still kept my record collection. Wasn't going to let him steal THAT away from me.

LIEU- Good points- The Song of Solomon was pretty lurid- you know " her breasts are like date clusters " that kind of shit. They also spoke of getting aroused sexually so yeah the Bible is a more lurid book than a lot of the music we listen to ! LOL.

FREEMINDFADE- I bet you did get harassed constantly. That time period when you were young and you came from an aggressive JW family like I did as well. I'm glad that you keep listening and playing music bro- never stop dude.

PRAXIS- I agree. The JW power mongers are SO easily led into the " it's from Satan " trip that they put down music, movies, anything that doesn't originate inside the WT Society at all. They are totally paranoid.

GREENHORNET- You had similar parents to my elder dad. Very strict. At least my dad didn't break my records ! Geez. Sorry your dad did that. Hopefully you've replaced your collection ! I'm glad you are the cool dad. 'm considered that too

87

Did you get " Counseled " about the Music you Listened to While you were a JW ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

from the time i was a small boy - i loved rock n' roll music.

beatles, rolling stones, led zeppelin, hendrix.

i started getting slighted for the music i listened to as i lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to led zeppelin's song " black dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as i'm rocking out .

flipper

O.K. Page 1 responses first and I'll gradually get caught up here. Interesting discussion ! Keep the comments coming ! Thanks for your input !

JUANDEFEIRO- Amazing that your parents let you listen to SOME rock music groups- but not others. Like they knew what they were talking about. And what the hell was the " brother " from Bethel talking about the song " Break on Through " meaning the flood of Noah's day ? I swear we can't make this stuff up- it's so bizarre !

OUTLAW- Funny picture ! Thanks for sharing.

JRK- Hey bro ! Nice hearing from you. I know you're a huge music fan like myself I bet you got harassed constantly. An elder got mad at you for listening to a song called " Constipated Duck " ? Perhaps he was having some " stuck up " issues himself and the theme was too personal for him ! LOL. You and OTWO are going to see Jethro Tull ??!! Oh I'm SOOO envious . I wish I could join you guys. Tull's one of my top ten all time favorite groups ! Have a great time ! I'll be there in spirit . Think of me when they sing " Aqualung " you know- " snot running down his nose ". " Watching the pretty panties run ". That's cool that your mom says " Rolling Rocks " for " Rolling Stones " - pretty good.

144THOUSAND_AND_ONE- WT showed a film with the Sex Pistols on it ? What's the world coming to ? LOL.

BLONDIE- Exactly what you say. We could show the elders and other WT powers that be countless proof that classical musicians were immoral or had bad habits- but they'd still try to deny it and put rock n' roll music down claiming all rockers are bereft of any morals. I know of quite a few rock artists like Donovan and John Paul Jones of Zeppelin who have been married to the same woman for over 40 + years now. WT leaders believe what they want to believe and deny what they want to deny. Did none of those elders ever watch the movie " Amadeus " ?

SIR 82- I saw that a lot when I was a JW also- many C.O.'s bashing rock music from the stage at Circuit assemblies. I just thought they were crazy idiots. I ignored them.

TALESIN- I'm glad to hear that you hid your music ! Smart young woman you were- and still are ! I truly believe listening to The Moody Blues, The Beatles, and Led Zeppelin actually saved my life as well growing up as a JW teenager and assisted me to NOT lose my independent thinking ability. Like yourself- I was always a rebel at heart ( still am ) and I cannot stop railing against injustices. And I really believe that listening to not only rock music, but lots of Bob Marley and Reggae music solidified my resentment towards established religion, politics, and corporate corruption.

FINKELSTEIN- Good points. Rock music IS a rebellion against injustices of society indeed. And my older parents too listened to Benny Goodman, Lawrence Welk and all the easy listening stuff of years gone by. Interestingly enough although my older dad hates rock music, even songs that I write- my 88 year old mom really enjoys rock music to a good extent and she loves the songs I write. Go figure. I guess one size doesn't fit all. LOL.

BARROLD BONDS- So you experienced the strict counsel also in the 1990's ? Yeah a lot of rap and alternative was just coming into mainstream popularity then so I bet lots of young JW's got jumped on about it.

BRANDNEW- Great for you to play " Wild Thing " pulling out of the kingdom hall. Good job ! I'm sure that got their attention ! LOL

87

Did you get " Counseled " about the Music you Listened to While you were a JW ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

from the time i was a small boy - i loved rock n' roll music.

beatles, rolling stones, led zeppelin, hendrix.

i started getting slighted for the music i listened to as i lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to led zeppelin's song " black dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as i'm rocking out .

flipper

Hey Thanks for all the great comments and experiences ! Finally got a couple days off from work and business to reply to each of your comments. First though- here's another crazy experience back in 1982.

As some might remember the WT had an article that talked about allegedly " demonic " elements in rock music, talking about listening to alleged " hidden messages " as some of you mentioned here. Even naming groups like Queen, Led Zeppelin, etc. to " beware " of. Really stupid controlling articles.

Well- We were at this one couples house who had some albums from Earth Wind and Fire in which it had the two sided pyramids on it and the Egyptian alleged " male " fertility symbol - you know with the loop and cross and the vertical shaft . This was after we had already discussed the articles at the WT Study . Anyway- The JW husband picks up the Earth Wind and Fire albums and says to his wife, " Honey, Satan's been doing a RAIN dance in our house ! Look at these demonic symbols on the albums ! " Then he hurled his Earth Wind and Fire albums into the burning fire in their fireplace !

The amount of unreasonable and needless fear that these WT articles caused was ridiculous. As some of you mentioned- then individual JW's started ratting each other out to elders and snooping in on their fellow JW's record collections. Almost like people started going on a freaking witch hunt in order to cross a person's musical and personal boundaries. Makes me so glad most of us here have escaped the JW cult

87

Did you get " Counseled " about the Music you Listened to While you were a JW ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

from the time i was a small boy - i loved rock n' roll music.

beatles, rolling stones, led zeppelin, hendrix.

i started getting slighted for the music i listened to as i lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to led zeppelin's song " black dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as i'm rocking out .

flipper

From the time I was a small boy - I loved rock n' roll music. Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix. You name it . I started getting slighted for the music I listened to as I lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to Led Zeppelin's song " Black Dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as I'm rocking out .

Then one time coming home from attending a Giants-Dodgers baseball game at age 18 an elder in the car told me in no uncertain terms that the lyric in the group Golden Earring's song " Radar Love " was bad because it said, " when she gets loaded and I'm sure she's had enough " - then I corrected the jerk and told him the lyric went , " when she gets LONELY and I'm sure she's had enough " . Very frustrating. The power mongers just LOOK for negative things to nail us on. On another occasion I had some freakish " brother " come up to me and say to me, " Flipper ! You know the song by the Moody Blues called " Knights in White Satin " ? " I said, ' Yeah, I love that song ! " He continued , " Well it's called KNIGHTS in White Satin because it's promoting homosexuality with Knights becoming intimate with each other in white satin sheets ! "

I swear to God you can't make this stuff up. I corrected him quickly and stated, " It's " NIGHTS in White Satin " you dolt and it's about a man being lonely for love if you listen to the context of the song ! " These are the types of JW's I had to deal with growing up in this cult. Idiots who thought they knew everything - but actually didn't know squat. Then the icing on the cake was when I was about 30 years old and had stepped aside as a Ministerial Servant a few years earlier - I had another " brother " a MS himself ask my then JW wife , " Do you think Flipper doesn't progress in the " truth " because he listens to rock n' roll music ? Has that prevented him from being a Ministerial Servant again ? "

The JW's that I was surrounded by- had NO idea whatsoever about " boundaries " or how to mind your own damned business ! One reason I'm so glad to be away from those kinds of intruding people. Now I'm happier writing my own rock n' roll , blues, folk or whatever goddamned songs I want to write - WITHOUT interference ! Life is beautiful !

I would love to hear about YOUR experiences of the elders or other JW's questioning your music while you were a JW . Anybody have some sordid tales to tell ? Let's hear them ! Take care everybody. Peace & love, Flipper

30

Do Witness children die from not taking blood?

by juandefiero in

yes - awake!

1994 may 22 p.2 youths who put god first (3-15).

"in former times thousands of youths died for putting god first.

flipper

" Do Witness Children Die from Not Taking Blood ? "

Do chickens lay eggs ? Is Donald Trump an asshole ? I think the answer is pretty obvious. Yes, thousands of JW children have died over the years from not receiving life saving blood transfusions

24

Df brother in shock I spoke to him at kh

by poopie in

jw
friends

i was vis it in a kh last night and i just thought i try something new.

when amen was said i bolted out hall low and behold there was anot her poor soul just ahead of me so since he did not know me but i knew he was df i said a greeting to him he seemed greatabsolutely shocked and horrified thst i was speaking to him he acknowledged my greeting and scurried off in t i the night it was a great moment for humankind..

flipper

Good for you in being kind and showing true human empathy to him. Two thumbs up. However isn't it so sad that the reason he scurried off from your greeting is because he is in FEAR of anyone seeing him shirking his so-called " discipline " in case the elders hear about it and get pissed off at him and not reinstate him ? It shows truly that the JW organization is built on fear and guilt. Oh- And two more things money and greed