ELDERNEWTON- Welcome to the board. Nice to have you here. No apologies necessary. You were mind controlled by the WT Society like the rest of us. And it's not being " selfish " to get your wife and child out of the JW cult- it's being unselfish, caring, generous, and a good father to do so. Take care and enjoy your freedom of mind and broader thinking ability
flipper
JoinedPosts by flipper
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58
My introduction and confession
by elderINewton inwell another big bad elder here just wanting to say sorry.. i'm sorry that so many were treated like crap, and shown that god's love is not to be found around jehovah's witnesses.
i'm sorry that inadvertently i've likely taught many to judge and as such see that racism permeates every corner of the jw world, else why else would someone be of the world, or even inactive.
i'm sorry i sat in on a jc, and voted to df.
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57
Shall I go to the meeting? Would you?
by KateWild inhi guys,.
i might go to the meeting.
i stopped going in my heart properly in nov 2013, but i went to a couple of meetings to support a love one that was df'd and tried to teach them a little ttatt.. now another df'd loved one is coming to see me today and will likely encourage me to try and get ri'd, and i want to support her.
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flipper
KATE- Of course it's totally your decision to make-none of us can make that decision for you- however since you asked - I truly believe that many ex-JW's , some on this board even- may underestimate the POWER of cult mind control. If a person decides to sit in the atmosphere of hearing the catch phrases, the WT doctrines, and mind manipulation information coming off the platform- THAT is what can happen- mind control, mind manipulation and possibly re-indoctrination. It's not just a mind control thing ; it's a physiological change that occurs inside a persons brain neurotransmitters when this information comes into our minds. Our nerve or neurotransmitters over many years of JW indoctrination made familiar or common pathways through our mind that became WAY too familiar ( one reason it's hard for JW's to look at ANY other viewpoints their brains are blazed or branded with this neurotransmitter thought process. )
After not attending meetings for 2 years and reading other non-JW information your mind has made NEW neurotransmitter pathways helping you to think critically and broaden your thought processes - if you go BACK and even unwittingly listen or hear that WT jargon coming over the platform it WILL seep into those old pathways into your brain ; even a small amount might affect the way your mind operates. I know this might sound corny to you- but I'm serious. There's been a lot of research by scientists and sociologists on this so caution is the word here. Do you really want to put your mind jumping through all these hoops ? And what kind of message does it send to your adult daughter ? That possibly mom can't make her mind up ? I don't know - I agree with the others that there are other means to assist DFed ones you care about than playing the WT game of going back to meetings sitting with them to assist them to come back. I don't think it's a good idea- but it's your life and your decision. Just being honest and letting you know the dangers. Take care, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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Vertigo, WTH.
by James Mixon inwho here have suffer from vertigo?
if so how did you combat it?
how long.
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flipper
As Mrs. Flipper stated- we've both experienced it a couple times. I experienced it badly in 2004 and once again at our home in early 2012. My doctor told me that many times not only an inner ear infection can cause it but mostly from calcium deposits that can clog up your inner ear and block the nerve endings that send messages to your brain on when your eyes should move in harmony with your limbs or body, arms, walking, movement etc. It's like the messages get short circuited from your brain to your eyes due to the calcium blockages.
My doctor said it's not hereditary- just very random and can happen to ANYBODY. About the only thing you can do my friend is what you are doing. Take Dramamine or motion sickness pills from the doctor, do the exercises you find on the internet for your head. I found some to where I'd sit real still and tilt my head upward looking to the left- then gradually move your eyes to the right very slowly. Then back again while sitting still. Can't remember exactly but look it up on the Internet. And give yourself about 10 days or so to fully lose the dizziness. The first few days- get somebody else to drive for you because your vision gets REALLY screwed up- everything is spinning like you're on a fucking acid trip or something. Not to mention the nausea and vomiting.
I feel for you man, it is REALLY a rough thing to deal with. Thankfully it's only temporary but you've had some good advice from folks so far- just take care and take things slow. Hang in there friend, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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Vertigo, WTH.
by James Mixon inwho here have suffer from vertigo?
if so how did you combat it?
how long.
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flipper
Flipper and I have both had it and it was bad. To the point of not being able to move without throwing up.
Only for a day if I recall, but miserable.
The exercises help. Mrs. F
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Thinking of Going Full Disclosure With Wife. Sorta
by freemindfade insoliciting any and all opinions.
as some of you may know, wife is full in pioneer.
my fade has gone from us fighting.
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flipper
FREEMINDFADE- Hey my friend, sorry you're having to deal with this. It's the shits for sure. I want you to know that I'm always here for you if you want to talk. I mean that sincerely, not just an off handed remark. Been there, done that with a fanatic JW ex-wife I had for 19 years. And as you know there are lots of good folks on the board here who are dealing with the same situation you are - Kairos & On The Way Out - are a couple of my good buddy's who have still in JW wives. I suggest PMing some of these guys and getting their feedback and advice to see how they have been able to hold it together with their spouses up to this point.
That being said on the other side of the coin my friend it comes down to you internally. What are YOU able to deal with in a personal way looking at the possible long term solutions ? You have to be honest with yourself first - before you can be honest with your wife. How deeply are you two connected ? Is it ONLY the JW cult that keeps you together ? Or are there other interests and values in life that the two of you share in common outside the mindset of JW land ? That may determine to some extent how long your relationship will last with your wife. You know- there are no guarantees in this life - except death and taxes. The only thing we can do is put together all the information we have at our access and make intelligent, informed decisions that will do the greatest good for your life and her life. Are you and your wife in love enough to be able to OVERCOME the JW and WT intrusion into your free will and free thinking mind ? And the other variable is this : will your wife chill to some extent and ALLOW you to co-exist with her while still maintaining your free will ? Only YOU know the answers to some of these questions and only you can make that decision. Things may work well with your wife- it may not. As you stated you are prepared for the worst and I agree it's good to be ready just in case that happens.
Someone mentioned earlier having a social safety net to fall into if things turn south and go badly. I feel having good friends as a safety net is HUGE. You and I know some similar people who are close to us so avail yourself of those friendships. The ones who will give you UNCONDITIONAL support are the ones who are truly your friends. If things turn badly- don't be surprised if some of those " still in " JW friends turn their backs on you. Myself and others here have experienced that big time. But you have a lot of support here as well. Please avail yourself of that- people who care and who have been through the mill themselves.
Since you are an outgoing person my suggestion also is to try contacting ex-JW's in your area that you might befriend or get to know. Or even try getting a mini- apostafest going in your area to meet people who may support you. I wish you were out here at South Lake Tahoe to meet our 48 who had a kick ass time at Tahoe this weekend. It would have really been a big help to you and support. But hang in there kiddo, you have our love and understanding , any time you want to call me, please do, Peace out, your friend Flipper.
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Hi Everyone...
by Adewale inhi there, my name is adewale!
internet marketer & online entrepreneur, a fervid and easy going blogger at 70mack.co .
i have passion specially concerning things that concern technology!
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flipper
ADEWALE- Welcome to the board ! Nice to have you here. I don't personally have any need to buy anything right now- however - would love to hear your story of your former JW involvement or how you freed yourself from the JW cult . Tell us about yourself. Peace out bro. Mr. Flipper -
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According to Oct.1st 2012 WT Directions- Past Child Molesters CAN Be Appointed Elders
by flipper inconsidering the fact that the wt society refuses to release in courts any of it's written directions to elders through confidential letters to elder bodies- i thought i'd do the courts and wt society a "favor " by posting excerpts from this oct 1st.
2012 letter from the wt society to all bodies of elders.
these instructions are very exposing of the negligence of wt authorities in how they view the seriousness of felony child abuse.
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flipper
4THGEN- Like yourself I find it unfathomable that the WT Society would re-appoint these men who either have domestic violence backgrounds or who abused children. It indicates to me as you said that the WT Society is desperate to appoint ANYBODY who is a male to positions of oversight and control because not many reach out anymore. But it's no excuse. WT Society will be liable for many MORE child abuse cases if they keep appointing men to power positions who abused children. It's almost hard to believe how idiotic and arrogant the WT leaders choose to remain in spite of all the evidence against them. Thanks for sharing those experiences- very interesting -
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WT Society Makes Light of Child Abuse Crimes by Portraying them as Cartoons
by flipper ini commented on this on another thread- but i believe this has enough importance to create a thread about this situation in and of itself.
at the current district convention as you know the wt society released a " sophie & caleb " video allegedly warning parents about the dangers of child abuse.
they don't really use the words " child abuse " in the video - but just say if " someone tries to touch you in a manner you aren't comfortable with " and portray it as a cartoon !
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flipper
VIDIOT- Very true, misdirection and fabrication. Two things the WT Society is expert at.
NAOSCILLATOR- That's good that even your pioneer wife could see that instead of a fictitious monster- they should have shown an adult in a suit. Yeah it really frosts my balls that the WT Society makes it appear humorous with this monster or blob running around. Child abuse is about the furthest thing from being humorous that I can think of, A criminal action. It shows the stupidity of WT leaders to display it this way in the video
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WT Society Makes Light of Child Abuse Crimes by Portraying them as Cartoons
by flipper ini commented on this on another thread- but i believe this has enough importance to create a thread about this situation in and of itself.
at the current district convention as you know the wt society released a " sophie & caleb " video allegedly warning parents about the dangers of child abuse.
they don't really use the words " child abuse " in the video - but just say if " someone tries to touch you in a manner you aren't comfortable with " and portray it as a cartoon !
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flipper
JUSTVISTING- Yeah, I think the video really needed to be specific in regards to explaining that child abuse comes usually from people that victims know and trust. It just kind of alludes to this fictitious monster running around- not real human beings. Pretty strange -
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WT Society Makes Light of Child Abuse Crimes by Portraying them as Cartoons
by flipper ini commented on this on another thread- but i believe this has enough importance to create a thread about this situation in and of itself.
at the current district convention as you know the wt society released a " sophie & caleb " video allegedly warning parents about the dangers of child abuse.
they don't really use the words " child abuse " in the video - but just say if " someone tries to touch you in a manner you aren't comfortable with " and portray it as a cartoon !
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flipper
PISTOFF- Yeah, it's like the WT leaders are making a " perfunctory " video about child abuse just to say they did something about it.
BAFH- No, they don't say anything in the video about perpetrators possibly being anybody you know like - elders, ministerial servants, or even parents themselves ! The video makes it seem like the threat would always come from the OUTSIDE of " God's " alleged organization. Pretty creepy.
LIFE IS TOO SHORT- You bring up some VERY important points. It usually IS the ministerial servant that everybody trusts and thinks is squeaky clean that ends up being the child molester. I mean- look at Don McClean one of America's FBI's most wanted list the horrific JW molester who is on the run. He was portrayed as squeaky clean, good with young ones taking them camping - then BAM ! All the child abuses he did came tumbling out of the closet. So JW parents are TAUGHT to be naïve and gullible- way too trusting inside the congregations. And as you stated the WT uses guilt to make these children give in like " don't make Jehovah's heart sad " and all that crap. How is a conscience of a 3 year old supposed to protect against an adult child molester who is manipulating a child ? WT leaders ARE insane.
OUBLIETTE- Thanks for the link to your thread ! Very helpful .
PROBLEMADDICT 2- I think the main problem a lot of people here and elsewhere have with this video is the guilt inducing parents telling the children to " use their conscience " . How in the hell are children supposed to " use their conscience " when they are being sexually assaulted even violently ? And I have a problem in general with the minimizing of the child abuse issue by putting some freaky unknown monster running around in it- as compared to using REAL humans with REAL criminal actions taking place. This video does more harm than good. It doesn't warn parents OR children that sexual abuse comes usually from people they know- not some stranger. So how is that supposed to help them put their guard up in the kingdom halls or congregations ?
BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS- My thoughts exactly. How in the hell is a kid supposed to use a conscience when they are being raped ? I mean, like you say conscience has nothing to do with it- criminal assault has EVERYTHING to do with it. Your point about someone needing to get this to the media I TOTALLY agree with. It needs to be brought out. Send a link to the video to the media someone !
FINKELSTEIN- The WT Society does cling to ancient rules that are archaic- but not useful in any way, shape, or form. And the " obedience " thing to the WT Society has totally taken the place of any obedience to " God " or a supreme alleged entity.
STRONG HAIKU- Good points. I think a lot of JW's go through cognizant dissonance trying to figure out why some JW's die in typhoons or get raped- yet they think other JW's get " protected " from Jehovah from these things. In time you would think that they could just see that it's all just random shit that happens . Random occurrences that occur with no explanations for except being terrible circumstances. If there is a God and this stuff happens he is either dead, asleep at the wheel- or he has never existed " God " is just a concept that man has made to help them deal or explain their own pain. That's what John Lennon said- and I tend to agree with him.
NAOSCILLATOR- I agree common sense and intuition are much better to use to ward off problems and crimes than guilt. Young people don't need to be made to feel guilty when they are fighting off a rape or fighting for their lives.
CADELLIN- My wife thinks that the WT Society is trying to make the victims feel guilty so that they won't sue the WT Society. Trying to intimidate victims by guilt to " fight " off or report child molesters. This blame the victim strategy the WT Society has will only backfire on them though. Any parent with half an acorn of sense should see this for what it is- intimidation through guilt.
WIFIBABDIT- Thanks for the links !
LISTENER- Thanks for re-printing Barb Moor's post from Cedars blog. That is EXACTLY on the money ! She nailed every important point regarding this farce of a cartoon on child abuse. The psychological damage that occurs to child abuse victims due to hiding child abuse within congregations is beyond damaging to them- it is criminal to allow it to happen. And THAT is what the leaders of this WT organization are: pure and simple CRIMINALS. With criminal intent to protect their financial holdings at the cost of thousands of child abuse victims lives within the JW organization. The GB should be locked up in prison and the key thrown away.
PUNKOFNICE- I agree with you that there HAVE been and possibly ARE child molesters among the GB and other high ranking WT officials. Otherwise they would just tell elders to go directly to the police with child abuse cases. We do know that Greenlees and Chitty were sent away from Bethel for sexual crimes and it was called being " sent on special assignment " and there was quite a bit of evidence that Ted Jaracz had molested children through the years as well. So I think your theory has a lot of merit indeed. Jaracz fought tooth and nail to not let the writing committee print the early 1990's articles against child abuse. He and then GB member Lloyd Barry had no love for each other- but Barry prevailed and got the articles printed in spite of Jaracz's aggression. I know of these things from reliable sources