Posts by flipper

73

Will my inactive JW bring our children up as a witness?

by stevepill in

i have been with an in active jw for 6 years, she now wants to marry and have a child, will she want to bring a child up as a witness, she says not but any experiences?

will she start go back once we are married?

(i'm a non jw)

flipper

STEVE- Another point that my non-JW wife just mentioned to write is this : Jehovah's Witnesses are basically very selfish about self-preservation first, family second or not at all. Your JW lady puts more importance on surviving Armageddon's war than she values any family relationship or even your relationship. JW's are TRAINED and INDOCTRINATED to feel more allegiance to the WT Society's agenda than even their own family's. That's how JW's can throw their non-JW family 's under the bus so readily. They've been indoctrinated to do so - so that WT needs come first. JW's want to escape death so they'll throw their family under the bus to save their own hide. Scary truth

73

Will my inactive JW bring our children up as a witness?

by stevepill in

i have been with an in active jw for 6 years, she now wants to marry and have a child, will she want to bring a child up as a witness, she says not but any experiences?

will she start go back once we are married?

(i'm a non jw)

flipper

STEVEPILL- Good question you asked about why it took me so long. What kept me in the organization so long was FEAR and GUILT about exiting the Jehovah's Witness organization. The WT Society instills FEAR into us because I knew that once I left the organization my JW family would shun me just as your wife's family is shunning or avoiding her. And that is EXACTLY what's happened to me. My two JW daughters aged 28 and 26 have had NOTHING to do with me or my 30 year old non-Witness son for 11 years now. We realize that they are deeply indoctrinated and under the influence of WT cult mind control. So it helps us understand that they are not totally in control of their own authentic personalities.

If you get a chance I highly recommend reading Steve Hassan's 3 books on cult mind control so that you can understand what makes your JW lady's mind tick. Much of what Desirous of Change mentioned caused me to leave the organization, but I hesitated for many years as I had fear I would be shunned. I also had to re-educate myself with OUTSIDE information aside from WT Society information so that I could see there was NO reason for me to feel guilty about exiting the JW organization. Once I lost that fear and guilt it was a big burden lifted off of my shoulders. Your wife still grapples with that fear and guilt. She cannot totally let it go as she hasn't allowed her mind to access OTHER information outside the WT Society to reinforce her confidence to not go back to what she considers is " the truth ". She needs to prove it to herself that WT Society is NOT the truth.

I am happier now than I've ever been these last 11 years at age 55 because I have true FREEDOM of mind. I can think clearly without WT Society interference in my brain. So I hope this clears up some things for you or answers your question

27

It must be of concern to the GB with all the information that is been leaked now

by joe134cd in

i was just watching cedars prank call to tomo3.

by the way lloyd very well done and totally funny.

but on a more serious note (and i think what must be of concern to the gb) are the amount of leaks that must be occurring at a senior level or at least by a person who has access to sensitive information.

flipper

VIDIOT- I agree with what Julian Assange says, it will not only be harder as time goes by for the GB to control leaks of confidential information but it also plays a very important task of creating paranoia among the GB or other top ranking WT authority figures wondering who and who is becoming " unfaithful " or leaking information. It has the effect of eventually creating more and more distrust within WT headquarters where no one will know WHO to trust. I saw this tactic used by the mentalist on the show " The Mentalist " the other night turning two criminal brothers against one another. It works. Peace out, mr. Flipper

73

Will my inactive JW bring our children up as a witness?

by stevepill in

i have been with an in active jw for 6 years, she now wants to marry and have a child, will she want to bring a child up as a witness, she says not but any experiences?

will she start go back once we are married?

(i'm a non jw)

flipper

STEVE- Welcome to the board. If she says " she cannot guarantee she won't go back " - then that translates into " I'm probably going back ". Count on it. She's not over the WT indoctrination and mind control. In fact the WT mind control is SO strong that even JW's who get disfellowshipped or kicked out of the organization start feeling guilty and go back to it because it's all they know. They haven't proven to themselves or educated themselves about how messed up this organization is.

You may love her and want to stay with her- but if you don't want your future children being coerced into joining the JW organization- I'd put off having kids for now until she has TOTALLY cut ties with the JW's not only outwardly but inside her mind. My 2 cents. I wish you the best of luck

182

What's your all-time favorite Song by musician ? Name Song and Artist

by flipper in

jw
friends

flipper again.

personally my all time favorite song?

stairway to heaven by led zeppelin.one of my top favorite groups ,too.

flipper

Rush has been a great group all these years. It's my buddy's ( bass player ) favorite all time band. I love all their stuff. I'm a HUGE Doors fan as well. Love the work they put out. They were ahead of their time. Their music still sounds so good and fresh like it was made yesterday ! I've performed the song " Riders on the Storm " live at open mike and at small gigs. Trying to learn to perform more Doors songs as I go along . I'm a huge Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler fan as well. Love their stuff and his solo stuff. I can play Where Do You Think You're Going from their second album and am learning " Once Upon a Time in the West right now. Great selections you all ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

59

Just talked to Witnesses at my door for Hour about Watchtower Child Abuse

by flipper in

it happened again like in july when i talked to an elder and his wife about child abuse, but this time i got a hold of rank and file members who fortunately i was able to play like a fiddle as they had no idea what they were up against here.

so brother middle age ex-hippie convert ( as he told me later ) and sister middle age hair in a bun offered me the awake on death or our view of death.

i graciously accepted gaining their trust saying yes, i had close loved ones who had died over the years but didn't know if i believed in a resurrection or hereafter.

flipper

Saw this thread had been responded to and I hadn't answered.

BALAAMSASS- Exactly. It's really interesting to see the blank, shocked looks on JW faces when you present them with the WT child abuse information. It's SO beyond their grasp to think about - that they try grappling for words to explain it. I think it's a good thing when we can keep this in the foreground for them to think about

182

What's your all-time favorite Song by musician ? Name Song and Artist

by flipper in

jw
friends

flipper again.

personally my all time favorite song?

stairway to heaven by led zeppelin.one of my top favorite groups ,too.

flipper

VIOLIA- The Elvis song is really good- however I got a real laugh with the dancing in the youtube. It is SO 60's ! LOL ! Pretty funny stuff. But a good song

59

Our JW Friend told by Elder "Satan is using a Pedophile to Break your Faith"

by flipper in

jw
friends

i was given permission by a jw friend of my wife and me to post this experience.

she's anonymous and posts on the board.

she is married to a witness still but is fighting on behalf of children in her congregation to not be a next victim of a pedophile who attends her congregation.

flipper

I saw that this thread had been bumped up a couple months ago, and although it's an older thread from years ago I thought I would mention that this child molester WAS DFed in time due to abuse being committed again. AND reinstated as well within a year. Shows how the WT Society caters to pedophiles for sure. Thanks for the comments just wanted to respond to your thoughts as I have a little spare time here.

BERRYGERRY- Yeah, the update is what I wrote above and our friend is doing well. She is still not attending meetings these last 5 years or so and has attained freedom of mind and is trying to move on with post-JW life. We keep in contact with her about once a month or so. We both have busy work schedules.

LOVEUNIHATEXAMS- Our friend did everything she possibly could to protect this young girl- but in the end the elders did NOTHING to protect her, and she was molested. So like you say the WT Society does NOT care about the safety of minor children WT leaders just care about the financial liability coming from child abuse lawsuits.

SPARROWDOWN- Exactly. " Satan " has always been a good scapegoat when in actuality the WT leaders are to blame and they shift the blame to " Satan " .

VIDIOT- Indeed it was a pretty arrogant statement by the WT leaders in the letter to elders and elders manual that THEY would determine WHO is a sexual predator - or not . And what qualifications do WT leaders have to make such a determination ? NONE whatsoever. They should leave that determination to police authorities and experts and keep to printing their mind control crap.

JW DAUGHTER- Indeed our friend did everything in her power to protect children from this pedophile. She DID tell people in her congregation on the side and yet still - the elders did NOTHING to protect this girl. One reason she got molested.

SHANAGIRL- Exactly. Our friend DOEs realize that she wants nothing to do with this criminal organization anymore. And our friend DID do everything within her power to publicize the elders ignoring of the pedophile situation and still - nothing was done to correct the child abuse situation. So a person can only do so much. You do as much as you can- then leave it in the hands of the police authorities to do the right thing - if they can catch the pedophile before he re-offends. If not - then the child victim loses out and the WT Society is at fault as well as child protection services and police authorities. But our friend can sleep at night with a clean conscience KNOWING she did the right thing

56

Field Service Reports Count More than Showing Love - Ray Franz CF Book

by flipper in

jw
friends

i've always suspected this was the wt society's view when i was in the jehovah's witness organization - but never knew the head of the writing committee karl adams had written a letter to nathan knorr ( then wt president ) recommending a change regarding reporting field service time as it wrongly emphasized jw members being seen as mainly being approved due to field service statistics - instead of emphasizing christian qualities of love, kindness, peace, etc.. karl adams had been personally handpicked by nathan knorr to be the head of the writing department.

in 1971 he wrote a letter to knorr which he wanted shared with the entire governing body as well .

i'll share the main parts of that letter.. on pg.

flipper

Just realized this thread had been bumped up ! Thanks for the replies.

JUST A READER- I'm sorry to hear that you and your daughter were treated so disrespectfully by the elders. I experienced that treatment as well. Showing love and showing the fruitages of the spirit were NOT what was emphasized unfortunately when we were JW's. It's still not emphasized. It's always been " outward appearance " type stuff. Getting a lot of service time in, conducting multiple bible studies, or placing a gazillion magazines in the field. Simply ridiculous, and it has nothing to do with how kind or loving a person is.

JW DAUGHTER- Good comparison on your part with the business marketing outlook. As you mentioned PRODUCTION is a big emphasis in any business and the WT Society has become nothing more than a huge marketing cult and real estate corporation essentially. No emphasis on love whatsoever.

BLACKFALCON - Thanks for marking.

STUCKINARUT- I'm glad this was bumped up as well. Ray Franz made some good points in regards to this field service time situation.

BUNGI BILL- I agree with you. WT Society deserves everything they get in a negative way with how they roll and do their business. To throw JW members under the bus for not producing enough field service time, placing magazines, or having bible studies to the exclusion of NOT valuing any kindness, compassion, or love towards others being treated as not necessary - is barbaric and inhumane on the WT Society's part.

DOZY- Thanks for brining up the example of the kindly " brother " you knew in your former congregation. I think I knew hundreds of those kind of " kindly " brothers who were ALWAYS overlooked for positions in the congregations because the WT Society did not emphasize showing kindness, mercy, love, or compassion to others for being a qualification to be appointed an elder. A JW man could actually be an asshole, a jerk- yet if he turned in 20 or more hours a month and pioneered- he'd get appointed an elder. Even if he was secretly abusive in his home life to his wife or children- if he pioneered- he was looked at as a " hero " within the congregation. Which really shows just how INSANE the appointing process was inside JW congregations !

TOESUP- Exactly. What comes around goes around. I constantly saw condescending attitudes towards JW's that didn't pioneer from pioneers. It caused such a negative competition between JW's this turning in time slips- that people actually judged one another based on how much time they reported in field service. It was and still is disgusting

16

Could a religion caught up in abuse and fraud possibly be "true"?

by Jonathan Drake in

i recently had a discussion with a witness in which we were talking about the catholic church.

i led them out with talk about the fraud and child abuse scandals and everyone was agreeing and making comments about how terrible it is and how obviously wrong they are.

after about 30 minutes of solid rapport building in this manner, even incorporating scriptures regarding some doctrinal errors in their doctrine (catholic), i said this:.

flipper

No way, Peace out, Mr. Flipper